Should I poison myself?

[Songtsan]

Is ingesting poisons, in their various forms (poison people, places, things, drugs, venoms, bad foods, etc.), the fast track? Can you learn the quickest by going through hell? I have been unconsciously doing this all my life, and now I wonder if I should step up my game....Thinking of taking in small amounts of poisons (rattlesnake venom, black widow venom, arsenic, and more - in a controlled researched fashion) to strengthen myself. Anyone here have experience with this?

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

well, it's your karma....

 

but if you ask advice here...do not follow in my tracks, i brought my body on the brink of destruction and have a hell of a time to recover....

 

It's not a fast track....

 

love Bes

[Michael Sternbach]

I would advise against it. It is true that resistance to detrimental substances can be increased that way but chances are that, over time, you will do damage to your organs, leading or contributing to chronical health problems.

[tumoessence]

You can use Homeopathic remedies which are often made of poisonous substances to give you the same effect. They call forth effects analogous to the poison but in a way that fosters your growth.  Takes some research to know which ones suit you and the strength that will work for you.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I don't see why deliberately taking in harmful substances, events, people, etc, would be a good idea... I think you do need to face hard times on the path, but that will happen as you face up to and work through the crud you're already carrying (views, habits, emotions, etc) and learn to deal skilfully with what life happens to place in your way. Picking up new harmful stuff doesn't help, you need to acknowledge and process the harm already going on.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Taomeow has probably posted more on this subject then anyone else here, this being a sample:

 

At some point I spoke with a Chinese acupuncturist at a post-seminar lunch, who is also an indoor student (yup, there is such a thing, much as the outdoor students hate it ) of someone who has no public presence, whom she described as a high level taoist master. She is a tiny little woman and seems very fragile until you talk to her. So, we had a fairly in-depth discussion, and reluctantly at first, and then eagerly, she told me about her training under her master. She said he aims to demolish every pre-conception she ever had, and so he took her on a trip to Hong Kong to meet with and spend time among other masters of his level, his friends. She told me of many absolutely miraculous things they do for fun, and one of the things she saw them do, on a number of occasions, was challenge each other to consume and then transform cisterns of hard liquor and remain sober, smoking fat cigars while at it and poking fun at each other, and then play martial games in earnest, with much laughter and mirth. She said the master made her learn to drink and smoke (which she never did prior to her training) while at the same time working on neigong techniques of transforming these substances into extra pure qi. "How else are you going to live in a toxic world if you don't have the skill?"

 

at the same time working on neigong techniques of transforming these substances into extra pure qi: This of course is the catch, if you don't know these techniques you will just kill yourself to no possible good, and the preparation for these techniques is a lot of hard preliminary work in self-cultivation.

 

I hope Taomeow will comment on this topic.

[Daeluin]

All you need is right in front of you. No need to look to up your game - you're already too good at adding noise. How good are you at creating pure qi in stillness? How good are you at relaxing and being content just with how things are, happily eating time as it passes?

[JinlianPai]

No hurting yourself isnt the fast track for that still accumulates the black negative energy of bad karma.

 

Do good for others all day every day.

Edited June 24, 2015 by JinlianPai

[Aetherous]

On the contrary, the fast track is to take care of yourself.

[Geof Nanto]

well, it's your karma....

 

but if you ask advice here...do not follow in my tracks, i brought my body on the brink of destruction and have a hell of a time to recover....

 

It's not a fast track....

 

love Bes

 

Yes, me too. Everyone must find their own path, and that can mean devastation. However, in my experience life itself provides ample 'poisons' and toxic situations to deal with - especially emotionally - and that's the type of qi I've needed to transform from something destructive into something that can help me grow.

 

The Way of Wisdom  

 

The way of wisdom is not a subtle argument. 

The door there is devastation.

Birds make great sky-circles of their freedom.

How do they learn it?

They fall, and falling, they're given wings.

 

(adapted from Rumi)

Edited June 25, 2015 by Yueya

[thelerner]

I'd be against it, certainly not without a 'master' level mentor who'd be there with you.

 

If such asceticism appeals to you, then try fasting- keep it safe.  Find a position where you can selflessly serve a needy person or organization, literally karma yoga.  Or hit the road, even if its for a short while, do some camping, get back to nature, away from people.  

[Marblehead]

Well, to your thread title question, if you plan to be an immortal you shouldn't do it.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Marblehead

[Nungali]

Is ingesting poisons, in their various forms (poison people, places, things, drugs, venoms, bad foods, etc.), the fast track? Can you learn the quickest by going through hell? I have been unconsciously doing this all my life, and now I wonder if I should step up my game....Thinking of taking in small amounts of poisons (rattlesnake venom, black widow venom, arsenic, and more - in a controlled researched fashion) to strengthen myself. Anyone here have experience with this?

 

 

Dont do that .    I have seen peoples fingers go gangrenous from snake venom  .... I will let you find the pics and NOT put them here.

 

Imagine what that is doing to your insides.  besides, to be selfish, I like having you here to talk to. 

 

At least read up carefully on what their effect is ... like, mushroom poison can kill you by attacking the liver and kidneys ... I have nursed people dying from liver failure ... if I ever get that I will certainly kill myself first .... you dont want that. 

 

But ... my shamanic teacher does something like this with snake bites ....  but he is a very special individual ,  I would not recommend trying to do what he does ... no f 'en way!  

 

-  Actually, I am remembering him tell me of one snake ... but I cant remember  which one; a taipan,  king brown , death adder ???  anyway  "  When it bites you, it will follow you and wait until you collapse, then it will wind around your neck, if it feels a pulse, it will bite again, and stay there until there is no pulse, then it will go back to doing what it was doing before it was disturbed."

 

[futuredaze]

Once I ate a fruit, the coontie palm fruit, that I later found out was toxic.  I didn't know it was at first.  My friend, who is also interested in foraging (much less cautious than I am, though) brought back a bunch of stuff from his visit to Florida (I live in NY) for us to try.  One of these things was the coontie palm fruit.

 

The weird thing about this fruit was it tasted absolutely delicious and was quickly intoxicating, almost similar to the come-up on mushrooms.  It is bright red and tasted like cherry mixed with almond, I remember.  Intuitively, this plant seemed to have a different energy right from the start, which I could not put my finger on then.

 

Not too long after eating one (and the seed too, which is supposedly the most poisonous part), I decided to look it up online.  Lo and behold, I found that this plant was listed anything from poisonous to "extremely poisonous" and "deadly poisonous."  I was bugging out, but wanted to wait for any serious symptoms to emerge before calling a hotline.  I kept meditating and calming myself down, mostly was feeling okay but there were definitely moments I was really nervous, especially at first.

 

Besides anxiety and the initial effects of intoxication (funny how what is at first somewhat pleasant quickly becomes unpleasant after reading about this plant online), I had no real effects so I slept it off.  There was a part of myself that realized I could die in my sleep, and I was left with no choice but to confront my own mortality directly, and to make peace with it.  It was a transformative experience, and in a way I like to jokingly refer to that experience as "eating the fruit of knowledge."  I was fine, it didn't even upset my digestive system or anything.  But I'm not going to fuck around with eating anything before I can identify it again!

 

I think that seeking out such experiences would be a trick of the ego.  Even if it can be utilized in spiritual practice, it is still the ego acting on its own behalf.  If something comes up, though, embrace the fuck out of it, sure!  There are enough toxins if you hang out in a city, eat most fast food, swim in a chlorinated pool, drink tap water, etc.  Our livers are already overtaxed IMO.

Edited June 24, 2015 by futuredaze

[Songtsan]

I was thinking in terms of adaptogens....and taking microamounts (homeopathic and expanding), and also realization through approaching aversion directly and learning to transmute it to bliss, so that all Samsara turns to Nirvana. No matter what, all lessons have value. I cannot see a single thing I have done wrong in my life, even though I can at the same time.

 

You guys know I am insane scientist with this body So unattached! Yet attached!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Songtsan

[Michael Sternbach]

Even with homeopathic remedies you want to be a little careful. Unless skillfully chosen, they can be detrimental, to some degree. Applied wisely, they will help to cleanse your system from the toxicity that has already been accumulated in it, on both the physical and the psychological level. Doing THAT (regardless of the method chosen) will really make you stronger. As far as homeopathy, it's best to see an experienced practitioner.

[Eric23]

I have read the entire Dale Pendell trilogy.  If you are thinking of working with poisonous plants, read them.  Then read them again.  If you are not contemplating working with poison, read them anyway:)

[Nungali]

Or songtsan ... you could jusy go to church and listen to a sermon ... that would do it   

[idiot_stimpy]

Chod

 

 

 

"Chod" is a kind of mystery drama, and the magician or yogi is the sole actor therein. Dr. Evans Wentz, in his masterly introduction to the translation of the play or ritual in Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines explains that "The Chod" Rite is, first of all, a mystic drama, performed by a single human actor, assisted by numerous spiritual beings, visualised, or imagined, as being present in response to his magic invocation. Its stage setting is in some wild awe-inspiring locality, often in the midst of the snowy fastnesses of the Tibetan Himalayas, twelve to fifteen or more thousand feet above sea-level.

 

Commonly by preference it is in a place where corpses are chopped to bits and given to the wolves and vultures. In the lower altitudes of Bhutan and Sikkim, a densely wooded jungle solitude may be chosen; but in countries wherein corpses are cremated, such as Nepal and India, a cremation ground is favoured.

 

Cemeteries or localities believed to be haunted by malignant and demoniacal spirits are always suitable. "Long probationary periods of careful preparation under a master of Chod are required before the novice is deemed fit or is allowed to perform the psychically dangerous rite . . . At the outset, the celebrant of the Chod Rite is directed to visualise himself as being the Goddess of the All-Fulfilling (or All-Performing)

 

Wisdom by whose occult will he is mystically empowered; and then, as he sounds the thigh-bone trumpet, invoking the gurus and the different orders of spiritual beings, he begins the ritual dance, with mind and energy entirely devoted to the one supreme end of realising, as the Mahayana teaches, that Nirvana and the Sangsara are, in reality, an inseparable unity.

 

- The Art and Meaning of Magic

by Israel Regardie

 

[z00se]

Drugs are poisons that people take in certain doses routinely and don't die. I guess they are pleasurable or they wouldn't keep taking them. At least if these were the poisons u took u might get desirable results and something to try to replicate using chi. I have never heard of someone addicted to snake poison. But if u want to feel what it feels like to die there are many methods

[FraterUFA]

I was thinking in terms of adaptogens....and taking microamounts (homeopathic and expanding), and also realization through approaching aversion directly and learning to transmute it to bliss, so that all Samsara turns to Nirvana. No matter what, all lessons have value. I cannot see a single thing I have done wrong in my life, even though I can at the same time.

 

You guys know I am insane scientist with this body So unattached! Yet attached!

 

I think you need to take a step back and actually get some grounding in a spiritual tradition before you hurt yourself. 

 

The human body has evolved over millions of years into a beautifully functioning instrument. We have collectively endured every type of predator, poison, environmental threat, etc. imaginable. As a result of these forces, we have developed magnificent abilities such as resilience, immune systems, eyesight, rational thought, and so on.

 

Yet in your arrogance (which you don't even recognize having deluded yourself with erroneous views of concepts like mindlessness and non-attachment), you believe that you, Songtsan, can somehow consciously improve upon an end product which you scarcely understand. It is about as sane as if you were bash the fingers of a master pianist with a hammer, in order to make him a better pianist.

 

I am done with this conversation or any of the similarly inane ones that go on here. I do recognize that there is a place for them but my place is not among them.

 

Best,

UFA

[Songtsan]

I think you need to take a step back and actually get some grounding in a spiritual tradition before you hurt yourself. 

 

The human body has evolved over millions of years into a beautifully functioning instrument. We have collectively endured every type of predator, poison, environmental threat, etc. imaginable. As a result of these forces, we have developed magnificent abilities such as resilience, immune systems, eyesight, rational thought, and so on.

 

Yet in your arrogance (which you don't even recognize having deluded yourself with erroneous views of concepts like mindlessness and non-attachment), you believe that you, Songtsan, can somehow consciously improve upon an end product which you scarcely understand. It is about as sane as if you were bash the fingers of a master pianist with a hammer, in order to make him a better pianist.

 

I am done with this conversation or any of the similarly inane ones that go on here. I do recognize that there is a place for them but my place is not among them.

 

Best,

UFA

 

Don't worry, I observe my arrogance all the time....its nearly ever present. Many people show their best face in public. I usually show my worst. I am a Heyoka.

 

You seem awful stressed all the time in your posts. You should take things with a grain of salt. Your seriousness is an illness.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Songtsan

[Bearded Dragon]

I was thinking in terms of adaptogens....and taking microamounts (homeopathic and expanding), and also realization through approaching aversion directly and learning to transmute it to bliss, so that all Samsara turns to Nirvana. No matter what, all lessons have value. I cannot see a single thing I have done wrong in my life, even though I can at the same time.

 

You guys know I am insane scientist with this body So unattached! Yet attached!

 

That's aversion in itself because you're putting aside the deep stuff for something easier to handle.

[Songtsan]

I look for passive suffering techniques that run in the background while I go on about my life in ordinary ways....I dont have time to officially meditate right now. I am spending my energy on paying off debts so that I can then enter the monastery.

[idiot_stimpy]

Would you needlessly suffer if you didn't need to?