Nei ye chinese english

[LAOLONG]

https://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ohWVVdecGIX3UMzvgtAM&url=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38585/38585-pdf/38585-pdf.pdf&ved=0CBoQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEmo6-TeItKx7F4IkZxtak_2PFBlg&sig2=RkkQUZmKdHz0DTkBvQgoBg

[LAOLONG]

Bringing more resources is like hiding one tree by pouting it in a forest.

[dust]

Always wary of people who call Chinese characters "symbols". Who is this Linnell?

[Zhongyongdaoist]

https://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ohWVVdecGIX3UMzvgtAM&url=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38585/38585-pdf/38585-pdf.pdf&ved=0CBoQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEmo6-TeItKx7F4IkZxtak_2PFBlg&sig2=RkkQUZmKdHz0DTkBvQgoBg

 

An interesting text, thanks for posting it.

 

The link in the PDF to the translation by Robert Eno doesn't work, this corrects it:

 

Neiye translated by Robert Eno

 

Robert Eno teaches at Indiana University Bloomington

 

Robert Eno has some interesting downloads related to his "Course Early Chinese Thought" here

 

Always wary of people who call Chinese characters "symbols". Who is this Linnell?

 

The cited paper by Fabien Simonis can be Downloaded Here:

 

“A Chinese Model of Cognition: the Neiye”

 

I checked this out because it seemed odd, the other works cited were standard works, but this was a very curious take, even though supervised by Robin D. S. Yates, and I thought it might give a clue to who Bruce R. Linnell, PhD, might be.  My best guess based on some searching is that he may be an Astrophysicist who works at NASA with an interest in Artificial Intelligence and judging by this and another work at Project Gutenberg, possibly an interest in Chinese Texts on consciousness.  Of course this is just a guess.

[Taoist Texts]

Always wary of people who call Chinese characters "symbols". Who is this Linnell?

a discoverer of a hitherto unknown chinese concept

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind

[Zhongyongdaoist]

a discoverer of a hitherto unknown chinese concept

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind

 

Well there you go, if one is open-minded and pays attention, one can learn something new everyday.

 

References

Robert Eno, “Guanzi : „The Inner Enterprise‟”; 2005

Russell Kirkland, “Neiye : Inner Cultivation”, 1998

Russell Kirkland, “Varieties of Taoism in Ancient China”, 1997

Michael LaFargue, “Tao and Method”, 1994

W. Allyn Rickett, “Guanzi : Political, Economic, and Philosophical Essays from Early China”, vol. 2, 1985

Harold D. Roth, “Original Tao: Inward Training (Nei-yeh) and the Foundations of Taoist Mysticism”, 1999

Fabien Simonis, “A Chinese Model of Cognition: the Neiye”, Master‟s Thesis, McGill University, 1998

Arthur Waley, “The Way and its Power”, 1958

 

I have downloaded and will read Simonis' paper.  It seems interesting and bearing in mind what I posted about his possible background, may say something useful about where Linnell is coming from.

[dawei]

I have downloaded and will read Simonis' paper.  It seems interesting and bearing in mind what I posted about his possible background, may say something useful about where Linnell is coming from.

 

Yes, great find on that link.  I got it too and will have a look.

 

FWIW... I've previously read Roth and Linnell and tend to prefer the latter. 

 

NOTE:  Did a little cleanup.  Let me know if I hide something you'd like to have back or sent to you.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Yes, great find on that link.  I got it too and will have a look.

 

FWIW... I've previously read Roth and Linnell and tend to prefer the latter. 

 

NOTE:  Did a little cleanup.  Let me know if I hide something you'd like to have back or sent to you.

 

Thread reads nicely now and I don't think anything important of mine has been hidden.

 

I also think that it is important to note that he cites Michael Lafarge:

 

Michael LaFargue, “Tao and Method”, 1994

 

Full Title: Tao and Method: A Reasoned Approach to the Tao Te Ching

 

Description:

 

While the Tao Te Ching has been translated and commented on countless times, interpretations are seldom based on systematic theoretical treatment of the problems of interpretive method posed by this enigmatic classic. Beginning with a critical discussion of modern hermeneutics including treatments of Hirsch, Gadamer, and Derrida, this book applies methods developed in biblical studies to the Tao Te Ching. The following chapters discuss systematically four areas necessary to recovering the Tao Te Ching ’s original meaning: its social background; the semantic structure of the brief aphorisms contained in the book; the concrete background of the more cosmic sayings; and the origin and genre of the 81 chapters of the Tao Te Ching. These essays propose relatively new theories in each of these areas, leading to a new approach to the interpretation of the text. This approach is illustrated in the translation and the detailed commentary on each chapter.

 

I like LaFarge myself, but I don't think he is to everyone's taste.

 

[Shao Leeroy]

A few more translations of the Nei Ye for you all...

Harold Roth:

http://taoism.about.com/od/scriptures/a/Nei-yeh.htm 

"Oldmaster":

http://members.ziggo.nl/kwispel/masterguan/01UKguan1.htm 

[dust]

Had forgotten about this.

 

a discoverer of a hitherto unknown chinese concept

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind

 

What's the unknown concept?

 

 

It's a good translation, certainly my preferred kind of style. Concise, direct, fairly elegant, and well-formatted.

[Taoist Texts]

Had forgotten about this.

 

 

What's the unknown concept?

 

 

i was poking fun at this "the form of the heart/mind" . what does it mean?

 

It's a good translation, certainly my preferred kind of style. Concise, direct, fairly elegant, and well-formatted.

 

i would add - honest.

 

He did not understand the central concept and admitted it honestly, tip of the hat.

 

 

it is unclear what 一 言 means here : “one word”, “one saying”, “word of the One” (“One” perhaps referring to Dao?), “word of Oneness”, “sound of Oneness”, possibly even “the whole utterance”, etc.; so it is just left literally translated as “one word”

[dawei]

On 7/2/2015 at 9:25 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

The cited paper by Fabien Simonis can be Downloaded Here:

 

“A Chinese Model of Cognition: the Neiye”

 

On 7/2/2015 at 10:44 PM, Taoist Texts said:

a discoverer of a hitherto unknown chinese concept

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind

 

I finally got around to having an interest to read this linked paper... and hope others will want to discuss it.  Just giving some notice for folks to have a read.  

 

The quote of TT above is a line translated by Linnell that can be found here:

 

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38585/38585-pdf/38585-pdf.pdf

 

Eno's translation is mentioned earlier in the thread.   

 

I prefer these two as they don't translate Xin as simply 'mind'... which the linked paper argues against, and I agree.

 

I'm almost through that paper and the more I read the more I feel he falters in his points.   I think it starts off strong and makes lots of sense but as he goes deeper, he creates lots of absolutes about his opinions I don't agree with.

 

Likely I should start a new topic and we'll see if anyone is interested to talk about it.

[Limahong]

On 7/2/2015 at 11:55 PM, NOONE said:

 Nei ye chinese english

 

Hi NOONE,

 

The term Nei ye appeared on my horizon for the first time (last month) on another thread. I gave it a miss until I come across yours by chance.

 

I have scanned through it for an overview and now I am hooked to know Nei ye more. I am a researcher by training and some of the references are pretty impressive.

 

I am a third generation overseas Chinese and I am poor in my Mandarin ~ so the cited references will be my windows into Nei ye.

 

There is always some loss in any translation. But  I will not be  too concerned so long as I feel that these are in good order ~ their philosophical ontology, epistemology and methodology. Apology for the big words.

 

I will follow up with further readings on Nei ye... and...

(a) I may/will not understand everything... but I will read with an open mind.

(c) I will align my experiences (or lack of) with this thread and further readings.

(d) I will discuss with trusted travelers on roads less traveled.

 

Thank you for your thread and I am not regarding it thus ~

"Bringing more resources is like hiding one tree by pouting it in a forest."

 

- Anand

[Limahong]

18 hours ago, Limahong said:

Philosophical ontology, epistemology and methodology.

 

Hi All,

 

Re a good piece of cognitive  work ~ knowing its paradigm is important .

 

A paradigm is a general set of philosophical assumptions covering ~ for example (among others)...

 

(a) Ontology - What is the nature of the 'knowable'? Or, what is the nature of 'reality'?

 

(b) Epistemology - What is the nature of the relationship between the knower (the inquirer) and the known (or knowable)?

 

(c) Methodology - How should the inquirer go about finding out knowledge.

 

Hope you will find (a), (b) and (c) useful.

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:31 AM, dawei said:

I finally got around to having an interest to read this linked paper...

 

Hi dawei,

 

Your last post on this thread was 4 years on... prior to your recent return to it.

 

It will be interesting to know what got you to this ~ "I finally got around to having an interest to read this linked paper...".

 

Will you be reading the linked paper from an inclusive perspective... looking for commonalities... converging to your own perception of ONE?

 

Or...?

 

I am now on a road less traveled with a trusted Bro. We cross paths from directions that are poles apart... but trust keeps us going as fellow travelers. On my part, I consciously walk together with him inclusively... as for his part, I am still figuring it out.

 

We had recently survived a test of...  our less traveled path almost terminated... but we got back together again stronger (that is what I feel).

 

As we are more or less on a Taoist path of ONE, I told him this morning ~ I embrace trust/truth anytime over duality/non-duality.

 

Bro replied ~ I don't care about either. In small circles maybe... but with energy words are dust.

 

It was the first time I got to know him in such honest/pragmatic light. Bro and I are now sharing some energy experientially...  and his honesty/pragmatism will keep us in good stead... I think.

 

Just some sharing from a real/experiential angle... re an experience within TDB.

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

On 5/1/2019 at 3:32 PM, Limahong said:

An experience within TDB.

 

Hi All,

 

Experience and empirical reality are important... especially to a researcher.

 

"Empiricism is a philosophical belief that states your knowledge of the world is based on your experiences, particularly your sensory experiences. According to empiricists, our learning is based on our observations and perception; knowledge is not possible without experience".

- Study.com

 

If I am deemed to be veering ~ this is my last posting here.

 

- Anand