Origins of Daoism

[Kongming]

I thought , strictly speaking, the Yijing was a Confucian text... and which the Yin-Yang school also used, as well as Daoist at some point.    But I've not really researched it enough to say with too much authority

 

I am not an expert on the Yijing, but I thought much of it predated Confucianism? In any case, it seems the lines between Daoism and Confucianism historically weren't very rigid as even in the Zhuangzi there is material which is Confucian in character. Some have tried to say that rather than being opposed that Confucianism is the Chinese "exoteric tradition" while Daoism is the Chinese "esoteric tradition." In such as case, there could be both exoteric and esoteric, i.e. Confucian and Daoist, ways of reading and interpreting the Yijing.

 

Actually I just tried finding it and discovered that it was on the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy that I saw the bit about Wang Bi stating Laozi's ideas were already contained in the Yijing:

 

 

Wang’s commentary on the hexagrams draws heavily from passages in the Daodejing and Zhuangzi . He uses major Daoist ideas to interpret the Yijing, culminating in his theory that change and dao are unified and his position that Laozi’s ideas are already contained in the Yijing. He appropriates the notions of being (you) and nothingness (wu) from the Daodejing and uses them in his interpretation of divination.

 

http://www.iep.utm.edu/wangbi/

Edited July 3, 2015 by Kongming

[dawei]

Wang Bi was a Confucian... and took a rather new interpretation of the LZ on some level... not to discount his young and brilliant career as he did commentaries on both.

[thelerner]

I always thought Daoism was way older then such notables as LZ.  

Seems to me the origins are shamanic. 

[Taoist Texts]

  Qiu Chuji seems to feel that this was the case (bold emphasis mine):

 

hmmm...no.  According to Eskildsen this quote belongs not to Qiu but to some anonymous commentator (page 94) 

 

What is described above is “the Exercise .....”. This is the method of divine immortals that has not changed for a hundred million years!

 

Also what is described on that page above is not an exercise nor a method in our sense of the words but rather a record of of two individuals turning into dragons and other two jumping from a tower.

[Apech]

Wang Bi was a Confucian... and took a rather new interpretation of the LZ on some level... not to discount his young and brilliant career as he did commentaries on both.

 

 

He was also a Neo-Daoist with Legalist leaning ... strictly Xuanxue.

[Kongming]

hmmm...no.  According to Eskildsen this quote belongs not to Qiu but to some anonymous commentator (page 94) 

 

 

Also what is described on that page above is not an exercise nor a method in our sense of the words but rather a record of of two individuals turning into dragons and other two jumping from a tower.

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I was only aware that the quote was supposedly from the Dadan zhihi and hence was under the apparently mistaken impression that it was from Qiu Chuji.

 

Speaking of the Yijing though, I have never read it but apparently Liu Yiming has a commentary which was translated by Thomas Cleary under the title The Taoist I Ching. Has anyone ever read this work and does anyone recommend it?

[Taoist Texts]

Speaking of the Yijing though, I have never read it but apparently Liu Yiming has a commentary which was translated by Thomas Cleary under the title The Taoist I Ching. Has anyone ever read this work and does anyone recommend it?

I have read both Cleary and the original Liu. Liu wrote the original in code and Cleary, not understanding the code  mangled it beyond recognition too. But they say that there is something to learn from any book so i would recommend it if you keep in mind that it is a mistranslated, coded,  alchemical message (not neidan!)  , moreover   it is not about  Yijing  or divinitation per se.

[opendao]

Speaking of the Yijing though, I have never read it but apparently Liu Yiming has a commentary which was translated by Thomas Cleary under the title The Taoist I Ching. Has anyone ever read this work and does anyone recommend it?

 

it's hard to recommend Liu Yiming, as well as Cleary... They lead people in a wrong direction.

 

If you want to study Yijing, read Yijing's texts and commentaries from Daozang. You can start with Wei Boyang to get insights how Yijing is used in Neidan, but it's not an easy reading...

 

Speaking about origins, your intuition is quite good, and the only way to get through the early history of Daoism is about practice and getting some specific skills. In Neidan schools such methods still exist, that's why masters can be sure about the unbroken history of teaching. And they often name the teaching as Huang Lao Xue: The teaching of Yellow Emperor and Lao Zi. Because these are 2 key figures of the early history. I can only recommend to follow their advise and research more about Huangdi.

[Orion]

I've often wondered if Fuxi was a Naga. There are still religious sects in Asia who hold yearly Naga festivals and give them offerings, claiming to know where some still live and visit this dimension. I was told by some followers, in rough translation, that they live "one level above us", and they have superior knowledge. They are serpent like, so maybe the legend of Fuxi and the original three emperors has something to do with that. The legend goes that the Chinese learned the first 60 something herbs and basic acupuncture points from Fuxi, as well as basic agriculture. This all happened over the course of 100 years or so.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if those teachings included philosophy and spirituality as well.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Orion