I hate small talk

[turbo]

There isn't much to be learned in giving of yourself if you only want to give that which you desire to receive back.

 

If your comment is directed at me, then you have misunderstand me. My goal in a conversation with someone I do not already know, or would like to get to know better, is to try to cut through the small talk and to share a conversation about their thoughts, feelings, and experiences on a deeper level. I don't have a club for anyone to join, I simply enjoy meeting and getting to know people on a level deeper than small talk. In that effort I offer the same, exactly what I "desire to receive back". The structure of human interaction normally requires one person to initiate a deeper level of conversation (beyond facts, and into opinions or feelings) for the other to follow along. That then requires me to offer (or request) what I desire to receive in order to get the same back. If you get the feeling that there is something devious or self serving here, its not, its simply the way that conversations work and most people, incuding myself and the people I speak with, enjoy a good conversation. Check out the book Conversationally Speaking.

[Leidee]

If your comment is directed at me, then you have misunderstand me. My goal in a conversation with someone I do not already know, or would like to get to know better, is to try to cut through the small talk and to share a conversation about their thoughts, feelings, and experiences on a deeper level. I don't have a club for anyone to join, I simply enjoy meeting and getting to know people on a level deeper than small talk. In that effort I offer the same, exactly what I "desire to receive back". The structure of human interaction normally requires one person to initiate a deeper level of conversation (beyond facts, and into opinions or feelings) for the other to follow along. That then requires me to offer (or request) what I desire to receive in order to get the same back. If you get the feeling that there is something devious or self serving here, its not, its simply the way that conversations work and most people, incuding myself and the people I speak with, enjoy a good conversation. Check out the book Conversationally Speaking.

 

 

OK

 

Let's try it the other way...

 

Maybe what you think is deep is, in fact, quite shallow and your stated desire to cut through small talk to a deeper layer of communication befuddles whomever you are conversing with. What is deep? What is shallow? I am not being a nit-picky Taoist with the whole "the tao that can be named is not the eternal tao..." schtick. The point is a conversation requires more than you and your desires, it requires the other person (or persons) for participation.

 

I can't give you a book to read but suggest you try the approach of walking in someone else's conversational shoes, in this particular instance.

 

Peace out

L

[sean]

Women are the master small talkers! In my experience I almost feel patronized by women when I finally catch myself trying over and over to steer the conversation to some deep intellectual level. Like "there there Sean" *gentle patting on my shoulder* "one day you will finally understand women". Seriously, just watch women chatting about "nothing". MASSIVE amounts of "deep" information is being transferred amongst themselves all while they smile and chat in what appears to men a baffling, nonlinear exercise in pointlessness. Goddammit, where is the point ladies!? Agghhh!! But really here is the bigger opportunity to test what I mentioned earlier. As a man if you are in the presence of chatty women, stop trying to fight the ocean, just unhinge and soak in the yin energy. Find your roots and appreciate your emptiness/solidity. Resist at all costs the temptation to answer questions literally, or figure out some underlying, ultimate point to the discussion, yin communication is a playful dance of energy and emotion for it's own sake. Just play with it.

 

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts?

Whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

Boy you best pray that I bleed real soon

Hows that thought for ya?

--- Tori Amos

 

[Taomeow]

Sean,

 

maybe when men chat it appears deeper to you than when women do, and more about "something" (cars? electronic toys? baseball?) than when women talk about this or that "nothing" of their choosing? Statistically, men chat way more on the phone and online, don't know about any statistics for in-person small talk, but have personally observed many chatterbox men and many silent women, so I guess your mileage may vary with this criterion. By the way, small talk is propelled by yang energy, not yin, in either sex. Yin is silent and deep to yang's noise and surface manifestations. The left brain hemisphere that uses spoken language is yang in both men and women (it also controls the right side of the body, which is the yang side in charge of most outer-world action in most people), the right brain that communicates in images and responds to nonverbal sound (music and the sounds of nature) and is yin, governing the left side of the body, doesn't even understand spoken language.

 

You're right (and eloquent at that) about small talk often serving the purpose of connecting hearts rather than minds, but there's also other kinds -- quite a few small talkers who aren't interested in either. They chat the way a hen lays eggs, they simply have to do it to let off the pressure of themselves on themselves and disperse it onto other people. This behavior, talk for talk's sake, I've seen closely in both men and women, and it doesn't have the goal of communication behind it, intellectual or emotional or physical; it's self-serving, and other people are merely used as receptacles for the release of this "vaporware," this "word steam." As a sage or a comedian (don't remember which) put it, "A wise man talks because he has something to say; a fool talks because he has to say something." Though people who talk because they "have to" aren't necessarily fools, it's just that they are powered by a surplus of uncultivated and disorganized energy they have little control over or awareness of.

[turbo]

OK

 

Let's try it the other way...

 

Maybe what you think is deep is, in fact, quite shallow and your stated desire to cut through small talk to a deeper layer of communication befuddles whomever you are conversing with. What is deep? What is shallow? I am not being a nit-picky Taoist with the whole "the tao that can be named is not the eternal tao..." schtick. The point is a conversation requires more than you and your desires, it requires the other person (or persons) for participation.

 

I can't give you a book to read but suggest you try the approach of walking in someone else's conversational shoes, in this particular instance.

 

Peace out

L

 

Sure another way to look at it is that we are not seeing eye to eye. I know that small talk is just the surface of a person talking and that if I want to get to know someone better I have to talk about them and how they think and feel. This may not provide for philosophically "deep" conversation, but it provides for a more personal, intimate conversation, which is more fun an satisfying than small talk.

 

Please enlighten me as to what you mean by deep. I assume that when people share personal stories with me where they laugh out loud, blush, become highly animated that the conversation has taken on a personal depth beyond that of small talk. Signs of befuddlement do occur, and thats the risk you take in starting a conversation, some people are just boring, closed off, or emotionally absent. I am dumbstruck that you have not had someone lead a conversation that you have been in, or conversed with someone who skillfully got you to participate in a conversation that you enjoyed. Perhaps you need to get out more and stop being so critical.

[Ian]

For me small talk is such a relief.

 

Most of the need for "deep" conversation I face in myself, like wanting to feel intimate with someone's innermost experience, share memories, daydream, share ideas etc, etc, are usually a cloak around much unresolved fear of loneliness. Although all the above are worthwhile in itself, the need to be met, heard, seen, is very much a child's needs.

 

Through practice I have to face my loneliness, and that's where I see the need for intimacy as the escape from the lack of intimacy with my self, or no-self, for that matter. Its based on a lack of trust.

 

In reality, we are always intimate, always communicating, always sharing, with or without intent.

 

After a while, keeping things light in conversation is a way of just acknowledging someone's autonomy.

At least, keep things light over dinner.

 

h

 

Wow. Yes. Thanks. I wonder how many times, on average, I will have to learn something important before it sticks.

[Pietro]

Statistically, men chat way more...

Taomeow,

we, men, don't chat: we communicate.

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

Taomeow,

we, men, don't chat: we communicate.

 

Right. Also men's farts don't stink, they communicate.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Taomeow

[Flynn]

Please enlighten me as to what you mean by deep.

 

I think that originally, this topic was referring to "deep" as philosophical conversation. Certainly you can learn lots about people and have meaningful relationships with them without discussing the meaning of life. There is, however, a distinct lack of thoughtful, philosophical conversation in our society. People may use small talk as an outlet for their emotions and "deep" feelings, though I think that many of us prefer straightforward, intellectual discussion. Think about it, if you didn't desire this type of interaction you wouldn't be here, intellectually and philosophically discussing the meaning of small talk.

[turbo]

I think that originally, this topic was referring to "deep" as philosophical conversation... Think about it, if you didn't desire this type of interaction you wouldn't be here, intellectually and philosophically discussing the meaning of small talk.

 

Sure, guilty as charged. I desire conversation with a degree of intelligence and philosophical depth. But in my mind talking about "things" whether philosophical concepts, the weather, or science is still making small talk. When I talk to people I want to know how they feel about these deep topics, why they feel that way, and what experiences they have had that made them consider those philosophies or study those sciences in the first place. Thats the kind of depth I seek, getting to know people, making a connection and sharing with them.

 

Discussions on a internet forum are inherently different than in person discussions for a number of reasons. I am drawn here to be able to discuss spiritual cultivation, self improvement, and related ideas with other people who have valuable ideas and experiences to contribute. I offer my comments in hopes that someone else may benefit from them. I generally try not to debate the finer points of esoteric topics, although I did go through that phase. Now I try to contribute value and take what I feel is of value to me.

[Leidee]

Sure another way to look at it is that we are not seeing eye to eye. I know that small talk is just the surface of a person talking and that if I want to get to know someone better I have to talk about them and how they think and feel. This may not provide for philosophically "deep" conversation, but it provides for a more personal, intimate conversation, which is more fun an satisfying than small talk.

 

Please enlighten me as to what you mean by deep. I assume that when people share personal stories with me where they laugh out loud, blush, become highly animated that the conversation has taken on a personal depth beyond that of small talk. Signs of befuddlement do occur, and thats the risk you take in starting a conversation, some people are just boring, closed off, or emotionally absent. I am dumbstruck that you have not had someone lead a conversation that you have been in, or conversed with someone who skillfully got you to participate in a conversation that you enjoyed. Perhaps you need to get out more and stop being so critical.

 

And, perhaps, this kind of attitude is why you don't enjoy the types of conversation you long for. Not surprised by your response.

 

Peace out

L

Edited October 25, 2007 by Leidee

[turbo]

And, perhaps, this kind of attitude is why you don't enjoy the types of conversation you long for. Not surprised by your response.

 

Peace out

L

 

I was merely relating my experience in developing my conversational skill and you were critical of me. I have all the conversations I want and am satisfied in and with them. I believe that we do not understand one another or that you are being hypercritical of my contribution.

[Leidee]

OK. No skin off my nose.

 

Then, my next question, in my quest to be overly critical of someone I have never met and have no reason to dislike or harass, is are you truly seeking conversation or agreement?

 

Tip: Watch our exchange.

 

Was this not conversation? Would you consider it meaningful? Why didn't you seize the opportunity to examine your conversational techniques when offered a differing opinion or view, rather than go on the "attack" and assume that I had not had emotional exchanges or enough of them or that I needed to get out more often? And, why would you assume by my responses, that I didn't think you were getting enough...conversation, that is.

 

We do understand each other. We just don't agree.

 

Peace (again and again and again)

L

[turbo]

Tip: Watch our exchange.

 

I offered from my experience how I turned from a person who talked about things to a person who talked to people.

 

You asked me if I was recruiting for some kind of club.

 

WTF?? There you tried to criticize me. Then you began an all out attack, insulting my intelligence, experience, motives, and attitude, later you resorted to insulting my happiness.

 

It reflects upon you.

 

In any case a discussion on an online forum is wholly unlike a conversation in person. There is no contact, no shared environment, no body language, none of the things that make a personal conversation, personal. I was merely sharing what I found helpful until I was attacked by you.

 

I was seeking for you to recognize that I was merely trying to contribute, and not put myself out to be attacked for having an intellectual club or anything else. I'm just a dude who wants to help people out.

 

Good night.

[rain]

..................

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[arnquist]

The more I reflect on that night that I was so frustrated with small talk in my original post and the more I consider what people have said on this thread, the more I realize I was being insensitive. I don't chose my words very carefully, I see now that some of the "intellectual" things I said were probably considered somewhat insulting, offensive, (dangerous? controversial?) something like that. So instead of confronting me or getting defensive they just steered the conversation back into safer territory...

 

... or maybe they just thought I was boring and wanted to talk about fun stuff instead, who knows!? The point is, it's my own fault for not enjoying the conversation and not taking a hint from their responses. I just need more practice I guess.

[rain]

sorry to me a whole page of words does not equal "substantial" communication.

.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Edited October 25, 2007 by rain

[SFJane]

 

Oh yeah, just watching and letting go of the near constant mental babbling in my head is all the small talk I need or want. In fact I want as little of that as possible... which is the point of the practice.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean

 

 

Even just a few years ago I could have written this exact topic starter. I grew up absolutely hating small talk. Just could not stand it. It made me physically uncomfortable and tired. So much so that I actually put a lot of contemplation into why. I realized that it was painfully challenging for me to emotionally connect at the level that I yearned for through small talk. And without a tangible felt sense of emotional connection, communication felt draining to me. What struck me as strange about this was that what I really wanted most was emotional connection, but I was insisting on using intellectual conversation as a sort of mandatory gatekeeper to this heart space. Other "less sophisticated" folks around me were laughing and crying and enjoying their hearts out with each other, while I demanded an active philosophical mind before I met another's heart. Strange.

 

So how do you find connection in small talk? Well try to recognize the subtle bids for emotional connection that people make in small talk that often go completely unnoticed. "Nice weather, huh?", is often a tiny tendril originating in the heart attempting to reach out to another person but not quite sure where to begin. Quite often people are a little reticent to reveal too much all at once for fear of rejection. The amazing thing is that nearly everyone I meet I now realize actually has a very rich tapestry of inner emotional depth. And this depth can be connected with in a very satisfying way when I cherish each little morsel they trustingly offer me as I meet them and and give back in return.

 

Not everyone cares so much about sophisticated intellectual development, and even people that do don't always want to wax philosophical..... So in my experience the intellectual mind as gatekeeper to the heart is actually a huge burden. Look in your own life and I bet you will find plenty of examples where you felt very satisfying emotional connections with little if any intellectual buffer.

 

 

Look for ways to become better at emotionally connecting even if the literal words of the conversation themselves seem mundane to your mind. It's a great relief.

 

/Two cents.

 

Best,

Sean

 

 

Women are the master small talkers! In my experience I almost feel patronized by women when I finally catch myself trying over and over to steer the conversation to some deep intellectual level. Like "there there Sean" *gentle patting on my shoulder* "one day you will finally understand women". Seriously, just watch women chatting about "nothing". MASSIVE amounts of "deep" information is being transferred amongst themselves all while they smile and chat in what appears to men a baffling, nonlinear exercise in pointlessness. Goddammit, where is the point ladies!? Agghhh!! But really here is the bigger opportunity to test what I mentioned earlier. As a man if you are in the presence of chatty women, stop trying to fight the ocean, just unhinge and soak in the yin energy. Find your roots and appreciate your emptiness/solidity. Resist at all costs the temptation to answer questions literally, or figure out some underlying, ultimate point to the discussion, yin communication is a playful dance of energy and emotion for it's own sake. Just play with it.

 

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts?

Whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

Boy you best pray that I bleed real soon

Hows that thought for ya?

--- Tori Amos

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sir know entirely too much for your own good. I mean that actually in a really good way.

 

Now to really freak you out. Know this, If I was head of the Bene Gesserit, I would tell the Breeding Mistresses to make sure an adept accidentally bumped into you and your line would be preserved for the good of the species.

 

The world needs more guys like you.

 

You got with me with Tori. I love her. The song, "Here in my Head', yea

 

you are dangerous.

 

[VeeCee]

...i was meditating, sitting in the couch yesterday and when i "opened my eyes" the dog was watcing me from above the room. lying comfortably in a chair. we stared at each other for some seconds and he blinked at me so i blinked back, and we continued doing so a couple of times, and i kept thinking there he seems to be and here i seem seated, i recognized in my consciousness something between us..this something, we, enclosing us, wartching us. we were "same same but different" watching the watcing.

and it was so very amusing.

and extremely content.

 

I love when that happens - when somehow you can connect with an animal. No small talk necessary. Here's a cool poem by St. John of the Cross:

 

I was sad one day and went for a walk;

I sat in a field.

 

A rabbit noticed my condition and came near.

 

It often does not take more than that to help at times-

 

to just be close to creatures who

are so full of knowing,

so full of love

that they don't-

chat.

 

they just gaze with

their marvelous understanding.

[Flynn]

Why didn't you seize the opportunity to examine your conversational techniques when offered a differing opinion or view, rather than go on the "attack" and assume that I had not had emotional exchanges or enough of them or that I needed to get out more often?

WTF?? There you tried to criticize me. Then you began an all out attack, insulting my intelligence, experience, motives, and attitude, later you resorted to insulting my happiness.

 

Come on everyone, keep it civil. On the internet we deal with philosophical and hypothetical much better than personal.

[rain]

tingeling.

you are clear as a bell beautiful vee cee.

 

hows that for "female love" and "animal love"

camradon?

[rain]

Right. Also men's farts don't stink, they communicate.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY9_o77-aVk

[Taomeow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY9_o77-aVk

It won't load for me...

 

...however, I found this:

[sean]

You look very pretty today Taomeow.

 

 

 

Sean

[rain]

You look very pretty today Taomeow.

 

 

 

Sean

 

yes she does does'nt she?

 

fart.

 

oops

Edited October 26, 2007 by rain