how soon before the US in same state as Greece?

[3bob]

How soon before the US in the same financial state as Greece?  6 months, a year or what?

[Brian]

The Long March is nearly over. The irony comes when the Fellow Travellers finally realize what it is they have "won."

[thelerner]

An economist once described the U.S like a very rich family that overspent its income.  We have amazing wealth and pretty good productivity.   Greece (unfortunately) is like a poor family, mortgaged to the hilt, has pissed off its creditors and has negative income. 

 

By most metrics the U.S. economy has been steadily improving for the past 5 or 6 years. The arguments used to predict a crash (ie huge deficits etc.,) were much more persuasive years ago, since then we've been on a consistent uptick, by and large.  The crash of 2008-09 was terrible but the economy by most measurements (not all) has come a long way. 

 

Personally I don't see recession coming in the near term, not in the next couple years.  Wouldn't be surprised by a market correction which is quite over due and would create better buying opportunities. 

 

 

on the third hand, one never knows.

Edited July 6, 2015 by thelerner

[3bob]

problem is most of the financial systems in the world are like dominos in a line

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I don't think there's Greece-level immediate risk. But as China et al rise, it'll be interesting to see how power/money shifts internationally.

[Apech]

Never.  Greece is a product of the failed and ideologically based Eurozone policy.  A single currency for an area which is not a single country - taking away their ability to devalue their own currency and allowing the economic giant of Germany to hide behind an undervalued Euro. The only solution to screw old age pensioners, sick and unemployed people to save the banking sector.  No one with any sense would vote for such a thing.  the USA will never be like this.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

[Marblehead]

I see no problem.  The Greeks are 265 billion dollars in debt.  The US is only 18.2 trillion dollars in debt.

[3bob]

"Never say never" when it comes to paying the piper we've been dancing to.... 

[Marblehead]

I think the piper is SOL.

[Marblehead]

BTW  The difference is that when the US Government wants more money they just have the Treasury print more.  Greece can't print their own Euro.

[Brian]

FWIW, the "on the books" debt is $18T but the real unfunded liabilities are more like $250T. Either way, it isn't an accident and it isn't a condition from which recovery is likely (see also: Cloward & Piven).

[Apech]

Its not the debt its whether you can make the payments.

[Brian]

Making "interest-only" payments while continually borrowing more is not a healthy idea -- for individuals or government's.

 

Neither is pretending your debt is less than 10% of what it really is.

 

Neither is monetizing debt.

[Apech]

Making "interest-only" payments while continually borrowing more is not a healthy idea -- for individuals or government's.

 

Neither is pretending your debt is less than 10% of what it really is.

 

Neither is monetizing debt.

 

 

 

You Americans are all depressed - you need some better happy pills.  Cheer up FFS.

[zerostao]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-steers-toward-subprime-economy-040112078.html

 

 

problem is the banksters and margin traders--- dare to be greek

[Aetherous]

America just needs to create regulations...laws that protect the dollar from practices which hurt it.

 

Don't allow American jobs to be outsourced, limit imports so that we create more jobs for those things here, have restrictions on businesses causing inflation by charging more than reasonable prices, make the creation of small businesses an easier process, and especially help the ones that will be most beneficial to the economy. Furthermore, we need to always maintain the minimum wage at a living wage level that reflects the current value of the dollar.

Money can have a snowball effect...if people don't have sufficient money to spend, they won't buy from local businesses, and those businesses suffer, causing less people to work and the area has even less money. A downward spiral all caused by citizens not having enough money in the first place.

But it can go the reverse way...if people have good paying jobs, they have extra money to spend, which means local businesses prosper and can hire more people (demand is up = supply must go up, so help must also increase), as well as maybe pay them more than the minimum (especially if there are labor unions), which means even more money for people and spending locally. The upward spiral.

The only problem with this type of economic theory is that businesses will spike their prices when demand is up, and cause inflation, basically making the dollar worth less. But I already said, we can protect against inflation by simply restricting this greedy practice.
 

American made products are known for their quality compared to other places. This means our exports can be highly valued, in addition to be worth buying for us. American quality of life is known to be better than most of the world (or at least it has been in the past). We can improve both of those things even more with laws that protect the dollar. We should not value the freedom of corporations so much that we allow them to destroy our country, and the freedom of its people.

When you're doing well, paying off your debt is a breeze, and you have no reason to incur more.

[3bob]

those are fine thoughts Aetherous but were not followed through with when it would have made more of a difference, thus like the ship Titanic the financial systems are sinking while the music still plays for awhile...

[Brian]

After you finish reading the current set, come back and tell us whether you really think more federal regulations is the solution:http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionCfr.action?collectionCode=CFR

[Aetherous]

After you finish reading the current set, come back and tell us whether you really think more federal regulations is the solution:http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionCfr.action?collectionCode=CFR

 

It's about economics, not politics.

[Brian]

It's about economics, not politics.

The problem is that government regulation cannot actually do any of the things you describe. We currently add many pages of new regulations each day -- if regulations made problems go away, we shouldn't have problems anymore. Instead, by trying to regulate a dynamic system with an unknown number of variables, we simply create new problems, create new opportunities for abuse, and create job security for an ever-growing bureaucracy (not to mention lawyers...)

[zerostao]

Greeks are showing democracy in action,,,,

 

Exciting times!!! or exiting times??    Both!??!

 

Austerity disparity

policies are wrong

global banking vampires

burning bridges

Brussels is silent

Future negotiations

Vote no

Debt deal

Crashing stocks

EU project is now dying

Wants it all

Path chosen

Now what?

Tsipras calls Putin

---Greece---

Putin calls Tsipras

What now?

Chosen path

All it wants

Dying now is project EU

Stocks crashing

Deal debt

No vote

Negotiations future

Silent is Brussels

Bridges burning

Vampires banking global

Wrong are policies

Disparity austerity

[ralis]

After you finish reading the current set, come back and tell us whether you really think more federal regulations is the solution:http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collectionCfr.action?collectionCode=CFR

 

I guess according to your world view the banks should have less regulations? Repealing Glass-Steagall was a mistake! I almost forgot that neoliberals such as yourself advocate that corporations be responsible for environmental cleanup. So far that is not working either.

Edited July 6, 2015 by ralis

[Aetherous]

The problem is that government regulation cannot actually do any of the things you describe. We currently add many pages of new regulations each day -- if regulations made problems go away, we shouldn't have problems anymore. Instead, by trying to regulate a dynamic system with an unknown number of variables, we simply create new problems, create new opportunities for abuse, and create job security for an ever-growing bureaucracy (not to mention lawyers...)

Government regulations would absolutely do the things described.

 

Being averse to government regulation of any type is a political philosophy, and is not based in reasoning. It's just lumping all "regulations" into the bad category...not all are bad, except in libertarian type political philosophy.

 

Yes there are a lot of unknown variables, and it's not like there would be no problems for anyone, but the key variables are known and the effects would benefit everyone. Economics is simple, despite what the ones who put us where we are want us to believe.

 

By the way, in terms of American politics I'm all about less government and more freedom. But not when that means our dollar is destroyed and our country with it.

[Brian]

Funny how neo-feudalists always think that the answer to having foxes steal your chickens is assigning more foxes to guard the henhouse.