Riding the Phoenix to Penglai

[opendao]

Hi Daeluin, as I was walking today this topic came to my mind, so I is probable that my hun had wandered today, visiting taobums of afar. As I was pondering about the thread, I thought that as you have now two psychic readings it could be fair and good to have two in person testimonies. So I will tell you my experience and that of a fellow student.

I begin with my fellow's one because he has reiki training and knows energy readings. He told me, in Saint Petersbug, that he felt as a "motherly caring vibe coming from the chief instructor" in charge of our training during the online trainings. There, in Russia he doens't change at all thing impresion, on the contrary we (me and other fellow) said that this is true, and provided some anecdotes, of those days training there. So, there you have a double testimony, first psychic reading and then personal meeting.

In my case, in can say that I have not felt any scaning sub rosa and the qi relation was that of an exchange between student and teacher (and, of course, this is bad for the teacher, my qi is not good at all), besides I have experienced healthy effects beyond those that you could expect from the training. The training has healthy effects, but there was more, like an energy healing. And this was result of the teacher's energy work following the technical procedures of the school.

Finally, I should add that we went not (to the trainig in Russia) as believers but as sceptics, following numberless Opendao's advices about the importance of an actitude of scepticism. So, we went there with an analytical eye, even if we already had good results from the online training, we needed to see and evaluate for ourselves. I we are more than happy to be there training Yuxianpai and Wuliupai.

Now you have real physical world testimonies.

 

Thanks. It's interesting, and I really glad you felt the most important things )) But I have to say that the "field of qi" in special places and from teachers is one thing, scanning others by thinking about them (or by analysing what they write)  - another. The field of qi is De. The scanning is an attribute of Shishen - cognition. Field of qi cannot be evil by definition. Scanning cannot be dangerous: people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains, so Daeluin has his/her own opinion here which is hard to understand from the traditional point of view... I got used to that though )) 

 

But obviously all that have no relation to quantumdragon's fantasies about ghosts in her bath tube, and various allusions to yinshen practice, which, as you know, is not used in our School at all. Obviously, she describes just her fantasies. I'm ok with that until such fantasies are not used as a weapon against other people, as it had happen here against Taoist Texts and myself. Girls got some feedback, but I really don't see any reasons to allow such behaviour from anyone, even if gender "is not specified" ))

 

Honestly, all these talks about "energy vampires" and "the forum member sucked my energy" are ridiculous illusions. The real ghosts do their affairs in a very different way :-( It seems people here are lucky not to know it. And it's very good. 

 

Speaking about women alchemy, nobody stops anyone here to discuss, but the published excerpt raises a lot of questions, and the company here has no answers to them, so they start their "psychic reading" to protect their world view. It's not new, but strange to accuse me or other men when they disrespect scriptures and wise words of real Teachers, written in such texts, when these words don't fit their world view...

[quantumdragon]

Thanks. It's interesting, and I really glad you felt the most important things )) But I have to say that the "field of qi" in special places and from teachers is one thing, scanning others by thinking about them (or by analysing what they write)  - another. The field of qi is De. The scanning is an attribute of Shishen - cognition. Field of qi cannot be evil by definition. Scanning cannot be dangerous: people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains, so Daeluin has his/her own opinion here which is hard to understand from the traditional point of view... I got used to that though )) 

 

But obviously all that have no relation to quantumdragon's fantasies about ghosts in her bath tube, and various allusions to yinshen practice, which, as you know, is not used in our School at all. Obviously, she describes just her fantasies. I'm ok with that until such fantasies are not used as a weapon against other people, as it had happen here against Taoist Texts and myself. Girls got some feedback, but I really don't see any reasons to allow such behaviour from anyone, even if gender "is not specified" ))

 

Honestly, all these talks about "energy vampires" and "the forum member sucked my energy" are ridiculous illusions. The real ghosts do their affairs in a very different way :-( It seems people here are lucky not to know it. And it's very good. 

 

Speaking about women alchemy, nobody stops anyone here to discuss, but the published excerpt raises a lot of questions, and the company here has no answers to them, so they start their "psychic reading" to protect their world view. It's not new, but strange to accuse me or other men when they disrespect scriptures and wise words of real Teachers, written in such texts, when these words don't fit their world view...

Are you really still  talking about  your hurt feelings? EMO much?  Goodness  Child you are   sensitive boy. Let us move on. I do not have hurt feeling over all you have said  about me. You are still hurling insults at me. We are our beloved moderators when men do this??? Have you read the book that is the Title of the this thread? Have you commented yet on your personal experience of the training described in the book? Hint it is not just for women...SURPRISE!  I would love to hear your commentary on your own personal experiences practicing the exercises outline in the poem Taming the Dragon.  If you need help decoding these I will help you. They are a poetic version of your beloved scripture. 

[opendao]

Are you really still  talking about  your hurt feelings? EMO much?  Goodness  Child you are   sensitive boy. Let us move on. I do not have hurt feeling over all you have said  about me. You are still hurling insults at me. We are our beloved moderators when men do this??? Have you read the book that is the Title of the this thread? Have you commented yet on your personal experience of the training described in the book? Hint it is not just for women...SURPRISE!  I would love to hear your commentary on your own personal experiences practicing the exercises outline in the poem Taming the Dragon.  If you need help decoding these I will help you. They are a poetic version of your beloved scripture. 

 

with you and your company any discussions are over, reasons have been disclosed more then once. Don't start again, then you won't get your feelings hurt.

 

If other real people have any questions about the poems (not about the book), I will answer, if I can help, of course. But basically, to learn Sun Bu Er's legacy, one have to be a woman and be in the lineage of her school. Such people obviously don't need my comments ))) But I would be very fortunate to talk to them. And not only me...

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Daeluin]

Thanks. It's interesting, and I really glad you felt the most important things )) But I have to say that the "field of qi" in special places and from teachers is one thing, scanning others by thinking about them (or by analysing what they write)  - another. The field of qi is De. The scanning is an attribute of Shishen - cognition. Field of qi cannot be evil by definition. Scanning cannot be dangerous: people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains, so Daeluin has his/her own opinion here which is hard to understand from the traditional point of view... I got used to that though )) 

 

But obviously all that have no relation to quantumdragon's fantasies about ghosts in her bath tube, and various allusions to yinshen practice, which, as you know, is not used in our School at all. Obviously, she describes just her fantasies. I'm ok with that until such fantasies are not used as a weapon against other people, as it had happen here against Taoist Texts and myself. Girls got some feedback, but I really don't see any reasons to allow such behaviour from anyone, even if gender "is not specified" ))

 

Honestly, all these talks about "energy vampires" and "the forum member sucked my energy" are ridiculous illusions. The real ghosts do their affairs in a very different way :-( It seems people here are lucky not to know it. And it's very good. 

 

Speaking about women alchemy, nobody stops anyone here to discuss, but the published excerpt raises a lot of questions, and the company here has no answers to them, so they start their "psychic reading" to protect their world view. It's not new, but strange to accuse me or other men when they disrespect scriptures and wise words of real Teachers, written in such texts, when these words don't fit their world view...

 

I appreciate your softening of tone, opendao. Thank you.

 

As for my opinion, the reasons are all found within the daodejing.

[Brian]

In the post you quoted he didn't claim that a forum member was a liar.

He said that "old people live in a fantasy world".

These are two different things.

A liar is dishonest by will and intention,

a person living in a fantasy world is simply deluded and therefore claiming false things, but is in fact honest.

 

Btw, as I was suspended recently because I said that you were a liar,

please at least quote the forum rule which doesn't allow the claim that forum members are liars

and don't just claim that "it is not acceptable".

Or do your words become new forum rules if you need them to?

Or do you interpret the forum rules as you need them to be?

Actually, ZOOM, in the post I quoted, opendao very specifically did claim a forum member was a liar. After I asked him to edit his post, he did.

 

As to the rest of your post...

 

Well...

 

I would suggest starting with the first post, by the forum's owner, in the thread named "Insult policy reminder" (in the sub-forum clearly labeled "Rules and Use"), which states, "Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks." Sean then goes on to state, in the very next line, "Moderators are present to enforce this, please abide by their decisions." Several years later, another Bum asked if this meant one had to become "a bs politician" to interact with others on the forum whom you consider to be posting ridiculous stuff. Sean's answer was unambiguous -- "yes, if what it takes to refrain from insulting other humans with differing viewpoints is to become a bs politician, then unfortunately that would be necessary to participate here (however insincerely) while abiding by insult policy." (link)

 

I'm linking here to the beginning of that thread for your convenience:

Insult policy reminder

 

Here are a few other links to foundational documents for the forum, which may be worth reviewing:

"Be respectful (no insults...)"

The DaoBums' Three Foundations

"...disrespectful content includes anything less than respectful, nonviolent language toward another member..."

(Later in that thread, Sean says, "i would say the message is 'respect others, especially when you are responding to perceived injustice with self-righteousness.'")

Policy against violence (always worth repeating)

 

You get the idea...

[Daeluin]

Thank you Brian. Always good to refresh ourselves with these reminders.... even when we think we don't need it.

[Xuanming]

Opendao, on 17 Aug 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

Darling, it seems you completely lost track and don't see the reality any more.

 

Is it yourself evaluation or pointing your finger to Xuanming?  I have not lost track and I do see the reality clearly.  I am a guy and straight and happily married. Can you tell the difference between a guy and a girl?  Thank you for your sweet post, but don’t call me “Darling” again. 

 

Opendao, on 17 Aug 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

Chao, hoping not to discuss anything with you and your multiple clones again.

 

Why? Because you cannot answer my questions? Do you understand the definition of clone? Who are my clones? 

 

Opendao, on 17 Aug 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

So far you showed no more understanding then Taoist Texts. 

 

Taoist Texts is smart and intelligent.  He is logical and reasonable in conversations if you talk about very specific topics with him.  He certainly has more understanding than me on his field.  I truly admire his talents.  He understands my points, but you don’t.  

 

If you would review your own posts, you may find a lot of projections and assumptions without evidence and references.  For example: 

 

1. Opendao Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:58 PM said:

 

who did you pay, Great Master Hobo?

You're so knowledgeable about frauds, trolls, clones, robbers, "spiritual business" and other money-related things that I cannot avoid strange conclusions... 

 

Where did your strange conclusions came from?  It looks like projections and assumptions without evidence and reference. This is discussion, but like curse.  

 

2. Opendao, on 16 Aug 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

 

5 lying ladies in one place, speaking crap about Dao, that's really amusing for the Daoist forum.  Shame and nothing sacred. 

 

Who are the 5 lying ladies? I have no idea who you are talking about.  Can you give any examples?  If you cannot provide evidence, again it sounds like just your projection or assumption and shows that you do not respect women. 

 

3.   Opendao, Posted 16 August 2015 - 08:04 PM

 

funny lying lady ))) 

 

Calling names appears to be your way of denying reality and avoiding answering questions.  I wanted to check with you about quantumdragon’s observations from your energy field if she was correct.  You have never answered my simple questions, but you had a huge reaction to my questions.  If it is not true, you should be not triggered by the information quantumdragon shared with us. 

 

From my experiential understanding on energetic and spiritual communications, quantumdragon is an advanced and gifted practitioner.  What happened to her, it was not her fantasy or lie but her observation and energetic and spiritual communications with your own consciousness projection onto her.  It might happen at subconscious or unconscious levels so you were not aware of it.  Have you recalled your mind back to your body since you published the post that day?  Are you aware of your sub-conscious activities that day? 

 

If you do not know how to recall your mind back to your body, or if you were not aware of how your sub-consciousness went to quantumdragon, it is easy for you totally to deny you did visit her and then point your finger at her and say “she is lying or making up some fantasy stories.”  To test if her information is correct or not, one simple thing is to check with you.  That’s why I wanted to ask some questions regarding whether her observation on your energy field is correct or not, so that we can have a conclusion.   Instead of working together and collaborating on this situation, you had an huge emotional explode.  Your emotional explode reflects the level of your internal cultivation clearly--you have not begun your internal cultivation at the internal organ level yet.  Thus, quantumdragon's observation on your energy field sounds correct.  

 

I thought that Opendao has deep experience and understanding on this area as a pre-heaven practitioner.  It seems that I totally overvalued your internal cultivation.  You might not have experienced such phenomena yet—perhaps you may experience such phenomena later when your pre-heaven practice is at more advanced level (s). 

 

 

Opendao, on 17 Aug 2015 - 22:42, said:

  ….I have to say that the "field of qi" in special places and from teachers is one thing, scanning others by thinking about them (or by analysing what they write)  - another. The field of qi is De. The scanning is an attribute of Shishen - cognition. Field of qi cannot be evil by definition. Scanning cannot be dangerous: people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains...

 

Why you think the field of qi is De?  You said that “people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains.” You mean people do it constantly in the real life consciously or unconsciously?  Are you scanning people constantly in real life without their permission? 

Edited August 21, 2015 by Xuanming

[Aetherous]

It may seem to you-who-have not-read-the-foundation-topic-of-this-post-thread that I am in attack mode in an effort to put myself above you. Can you see this is a masculine response?

 

There's no such thing...there is just the truth. Someone is attacking and placing themselves above you, or they aren't. It's not feminine to be unaware of this...in fact, your post shows how acutely aware of it you are.

 

What I hope you can understand, is that sharpening your claws and swords is not the way into Heaven.

 

So then why do you participate in it? You sharpen your claws, while simultaneously telling men to put down their swords. Instead of only listening to your words, we should also listen to your actions, because they speak against your words! They're a weak attempt at getting people to put their guard down, while covertly being on the offensive...and there isn't even a use in your doing so. It's just your natural mode of operation, I suppose. It's easily seen through, and reveals that your motivation is not Heaven at all, but purposeless domination. If you motivation were actually Heaven, your speech would be entirely different.

 

I do challenge you to see that at this point in human history on Earth, the male energy must learn to listen and, yes, even yield at times to the Divine information flowing through the feminine.

 

What if it's the other way around? Women should listen and even yield to men, who have better access to divine information.

 

When put that way, it sounds misogynistic, doesn't it? Sounds like it's being said that women are inferior spiritually or even intellectually. Like men are divine and women are in need of tutoring. Is that true? Yet...you call men inferior, spiritually, and pretty much everyone foolishly agrees with you and misses the point: this is sexism.

 

This is the way our society in general has operated for a while now. Consider this portion of text from wikipedia:

 

Religious Studies professors Paul Nathanson and Katherine Young made similar comparisons in their 2001 three-book series Beyond the Fall of Man,^[9] which defines misandry as a "form of prejudice and discrimination that has become institutionalized in North American society", saying "The same problem that long prevented mutual respect between Jews and Christians, the teaching of contempt, now prevents mutual respect between men and women."^{[citation needed]}

 

Your viewpoint of men is not based in reality, and it's a form of prejudice and sexism, which is unwelcome at this forum (to my knowledge). The goals of the rules of this forum are to have a place where everyone feels welcome to discuss spiritual and similar topics...do you think it makes men feel welcome here to be told that they're inferior, and that they must listen to women, who are more wise by nature, and even yield to them? It doesn't make me feel welcome...it makes me feel like false doctrines are being continually imposed upon our minds by people who have been brainwashed into believing them.

 

Domination simply must cease or our very planet will cease! Is this not of concern to you?

 

Yes, "put down your metaphorical swords, as I sharpen my metaphorical claws, and place myself above you as the superior gender...if you don't yield to me, your planet will end!"

 

I have no respect for such opinions, which you and quantumdragon share...and I think you both deserve being warned by a moderator to not be sexist and to not speak to other members like this:

 

Are you really still  talking about  your hurt feelings? EMO much?  Goodness  Child you are   sensitive boy.

[damdao]

Yet...you call men inferior, spiritually, and pretty much everyone foolishly agrees with you and misses the point: this is sexism.

 

 

I have no respect for such opinions, which you and quantumdragon share...and I think you both deserve being warned by a moderator to not be sexist and to not speak to other members like this:

 

In fact, the first argument and "fight" was never about gender, it was about sophistry, neidan vs qigong, technical terms, tranlations, etc.

After that came the psychic readings, the accusations, the divine female, etc. 

And a whole battery of newage tools to manipulate, now as Opendao denies that he has visited someone he is guilty for not remembering that. They not even consider the posibility that perhaps they are deluded and delusional, they insist. So you are guilty because the energetic scanning says so, it doen's matter what you say.

Am I taking crazy pills or this is a complete nonsense?

[Aetherous]

a whole battery of newage tools to manipulate

 

Precisely.

[Daeluin]

I find this to be a very educational and beautiful thread. We are beginning to harmonize a bit more after a somewhat intense convergence of very different minds. We have new members here who are not familiar with the type of communication we are used to. Over time they are beginning to refine and settle in more harmoniously as they see how we do things and what our expectations here.

 

At the same time they are unwilling to simply surrender their existing integrity. At first I advised meeting bullies with emptiness, being the bigger person, etc. And now I accept that when we have greater awareness of energetic interplay, we have greater clarity as to our capacity to work with that energy. I have said before that energy changes hands in discussions, and that forcing a winner-loser situation creates unnecessarily imbalanced situations.

 

Thus, even as we saw things beginning to soften, we see that some projections are still being reflected back to their originators, and most gently so I might add. This is a reason I see value in virtuous conduct - when we are careful to avoid projections, we can share our perspective freely, and usually with little need to defend ourselves. Our energy is gifted in a gentler shape, and others do not feel compelled to defend against it. When we project however, it is more like shooting arrows at targets, and those targets may very well choose to answer in kind.

 

I'd also like to point out that we are leaving behind a masculine dominated era. Naturally, as the balance shifts, the habituated masculine patterns will need to give some ground to allow the feminine patterns to enter into a dance of mutual harmony. It is easy for us to oppress what has long been oppressed whenever it pokes out a little bit, and call this equality. Naturally the "territory" inhabited by masculine patterns will not be easily surrendered - but unless we willingly invite balance, this rebalancing will not be as harmonious as it could be.

[Daeluin]

As for the "visit", this idea that opendao scanned quantumdragon seems perfectly logical to me. Maybe it didn't happen, maybe it did. Who knows? If it happened, and quantumdragon had enough skill to see this as it unfolded, and the connection having been made, make her own scan.... well this too seems perfectly logical.

 

Again, when we cultivate virtue, as in compassion, humility, frugality, and turn our spirit within to cultivate according to neidan principles, avoiding use of inferior de whenever possible, situations like this do not occur.

 

The main impact seems to have been the evaluation of opendao's energy field, and the judgments made on his level of attainment. I'd like to point out that a single point in time snapshot of someone's energy does not indicate who they are, or how they are changing. Personally I believe that as we progress further we naturally develop greater humility and compassion and frugality - at least this is how it happens for me.  An attitude of absolute right and wrong, and attempts to force people to admit it, seems at odds with this, but I am willing to accept there is more than one way.

[YiYinYiYang]

.

Edited August 12, 2017 by YiYinYiYang

[Aetherous]

It is easy for us to oppress what has long been oppressed whenever it pokes out a little bit, and call this equality.

 

Misandry is not the feminine "poking out a little bit", and pointing out misandry/sexism is not oppressing the feminine in any way.

 

Anyway...I'll stay quiet here now, until I have something more useful to say in regard to Sun Bu'er.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Aetherous

[opendao]

Thus, quantumdragon's observation on your energy field sounds correct.  

 

 LOL, Xuanming has worked long just to say that.   

 

I thought that Opendao has deep experience and understanding on this area as a pre-heaven practitioner.  It seems that I totally overvalued your internal cultivation.  You might not have experienced such phenomena yet—perhaps you may experience such phenomena later when your pre-heaven practice is at more advanced level (s). 

 

 

Why you think the field of qi is De?  You said that “people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains.” You mean people do it constantly in the real life consciously or unconsciously?  Are you scanning people constantly in real life without their permission? 

 

I don't talk to manipulators and words joggling people in the real life as with good people, so I don't do it here. You already found all answers to your questions about me, long before I've started to answer. With such pre assumptions and inability to hear anything, and obvious attempts to play games here, I don't think it's worth to discuss with you. You can continue evaluate and overvaluate, but let's be sincere: your opinion has no any support nor in texts, nor in Tradition, nor in reality. Sure I'm "emotionally unstable", "mighty warrior", "loosing energy", "not as experienced" and haven't even started any practice at all. I've heard it hundred times before. But for some reasons people, constantly repeating that for years, still got nothing at all and cannot explain even simple things in Neidan. Strange, ah? And you disregard any scriptures which contradict your qigong experience, dodging all the time to do personal insults and "valuations". Think about it, if you can, before criticising others just in sake to promote something here.

[Daeluin]

It would be wonderful if the Sun Bu Er's poems could be discussed from a more traditional standpoint on a Daoist forum but astral plumbing and other delusional fantasies seems to be more relevant as a basis for discussion recently, what a pity.

 

When we label things as "delusional fantasies," it projects judgment onto others who might be inclined to defend against these labels. And then we have yet another judgment preventing healthy progress and discussion.

 

On the other hand, if we are able to remain objective, perhaps we can point out the temporary nature of such astral patterns, and that attaching too much meaning to them can prohibit progress forward. If we are tactful, and avoid forcing things, perhaps we can gently lead the conversation to a healthy direction away from such attachments.

[opendao]

As for the "visit", this idea that opendao scanned quantumdragon seems perfectly logical to me. Maybe it didn't happen, maybe it did. Who knows? If it happened, and quantumdragon had enough skill to see this as it unfolded, and the connection having been made, make her own scan.... well this too seems perfectly logical.

 

sorry, but you obviously have no any idea what you're talking about, that's why it is so logically for you. And don't refer to DDJ: there is nothing like that in Dao De Jing which can lead to such false views. 

[opendao]

When we label things as "delusional fantasies," it projects judgment onto others who might be inclined to defend against these labels. And then we have yet another judgment preventing healthy progress and discussion.

 

On the other hand, if we are able to remain objective, perhaps we can point out the temporary nature of such astral patterns, and that attaching too much meaning to them can prohibit progress forward. If we are tactful, and avoid forcing things, perhaps we can gently lead the conversation to a healthy direction away from such attachments.

 

maybe, but even you don't follow your own philosophy 

 

Obviously, all the time people have to say "yes" or "no", the moment of choice is in every single moment. They can't all the time answer "perhaps". But pseudo taoists "flow with the flow" thinking they are "redirecting the power"... They don't get they are just Yin, and there is no any balance between Yang and Yin in their "everybody is equal" passive attitude. I tried to tell it by explaining the _traditional_ principle of Wen and Wu, but it seems without a practice modern people can't grasp it: because their Yang is so weak, their Ming is so unfortunate...

 

Do you see what choice you do at this moment? Is it Yin, Yang or do you feel their real balance? It's important. The proper sate is in the middle between external activity and internal silence. Who is weak doesn't have it obviously. Neidan is about this balance, that's why it is so important to return Yang and continue the fate. It is one of the real signs on the Way, not some stupid "psychic reading" performed by weak old people...

Edited August 18, 2015 by opendao

[Daeluin]

sorry, but you obviously have no any idea what you're talking about, that's why it is so logically for you. And don't refer to DDJ: there is nothing like that in Dao De Jing which can lead to such false views. 

 

Ok, how about the cantong qi, which refers to the daodejing:

 

Superior Virtue

 

"Superior Virtue has no doing":

It does not use examining and seeking

"Inferior Virtue does":

Its operation does not rest.

[opendao]

 "Men and Women are equal, the Women's Elixir quicker (to be  obtained)".

 

A modern Daoist master says in his explainations of this sentence that: "in the front of the great Dao, everybody is equal so there is no distinction between Men and Women, through practice all are able to cultivate the fruit of the authentic Dao. What is called immortality cultivation ignore gender differences therefore there is no male supremacy. "

 

so right. Now we see continuous attempts to change from male supremacy to female supremacy. From Daoist point of view, it is the same dis-balance, caused by yin life style throughout last generations. Man becomes too Yin, woman becomes too Yang. Daoist Alchemy is needed to create the balance, but it has to be a Right Method, which gives Yang to man, and Yin to woman. 

[opendao]

Ok, how about the cantong qi, which refers to the daodejing:

 

Superior Virtue

 

"Superior Virtue has no doing":

It does not use examining and seeking

"Inferior Virtue does":

Its operation does not rest.

 

It has no any relation to "scanning", "astral visits" or any other energy interchange between people. I hope you don't understand "examining and seeking" as "psychic reading"? haha, I bet you do...

 

The phrase is about that on a high level, when Superior Virtue comes through the practice, the adept doesn't need to use Shishen, the consciousness mind, which "examines and seeks", to act in the world. That's why its called Wuwei, which I leave without any translation for now. Lower Virtue is not enough for this mechanism to work properly, that's why Shishen "operates without rest", and people can't stop thinking even in sleep.

Edited August 18, 2015 by opendao

[Daeluin]

maybe, but even you don't follow your own philosophy 

 

Yes, thank you for pointing this out, though I hear you saying not what I do, but what I appear to do, not what I intend to do. I have done my best to be non-reactive and holding an intention for my contributions to contribute to an increase of harmonious interaction here. Yet in hindsight, after seeing how others react to me, I realize I could have done better, and I hope these realizations will help me do better in the future. Too I realize the times I have reacted, and wish that I had been able to remain calm in the face of adversity.

 

I don't think this philosophy is black and white - I think it is about intention within change.

 

Obviously, all the time people have to say "yes" or "no", the moment of choice is in every single moment. They can't all the time answer "perhaps". But pseudo taoists "flow with the flow" thinking they are "redirecting the power"... They don't get they are just Yin, and there is no any balance between Yang and Yin in their "everybody is equal" passive attitude. I tried to tell it by explaining the _traditional_ principle of Wen and Wu, but it seems without a practice modern people can't grasp it: because their Yang is so weak, their Ming is so unfortunate...

 

If you understand people's nature as such, why do you respond to this nature in ways that will cause reactions that don't appear to be beneficial to them or yourself?

 

Do you see what choice you do at this moment? Is it Yin, Yang or do you feel their real balance? It's important. The proper sate is in the middle between external activity and internal silence. Who is weak doesn't have it obviously. Neidan is about this balance, that's why it is so important to return Yang and continue the fate. It is one of the real signs on the Way, not some stupid "psychic reading" performed by weak old people...

 

I suppose what I do is up to the dao, and more importantly, my ability to surrender my ego enough to allow the dao to return to me. This Yang likely won't return if I am full of attachments inside, and it's counterpart of Yin won't let me be unless I accept and trust it unconditionally. I am not really very skilled at this yet, but I am trying to walk in a direction that has no need of judging others. At the moment I am brimming with opinions on principles, and perhaps am under the false impression that sharing them and refining them will help myself and others to eventually let go of what is unnecessary and embrace greater simplicity.

 

I'm not really sure who is weak or not, and am not attached to absolutes anyway. Weak today, strong tomorrow.... who knows?

[Daeluin]

The phrase is about that on a high level, when Superior Virtue comes through the practice, the adept doesn't need to use Shishen, the consciousness mind, which "examines and seeks", to act in the world. That's why its called Wuwei, which I leave without any translation for now. Lower Virtue is not enough for this mechanism to work properly, that's why Shishen "operates without rest", and people can't stop thinking even in sleep.

 

Yes, I agree, to the principle at least.

 

My point is that if we are sincere in cultivating to a higher level, we increasingly work toward letting go of examining and seeking. There are enough ripples already returning to us from our past seeking and examining - won't forcefully creating more just put off our achievement of a higher level?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Daeluin

[opendao]

and last one (I hope) about "astral visits": naive people think that Shen could exit the body, goes through a plumbing tube, and the owner of that shen would be still unaware about it. It is so lame. When Shen exits the body, the impact on the body is SO big, it is so scary, and it has no relation to fantasies of "astral travellers" like Castaneda or Monroe. So don't disgrace yourself, you don't know what it is in the reality, and I really wish you not to experience it in your life. It's dangerous, not pleasant and can lead to a premature death...