The Importance of Having a Live Teacher

[GreytoWhite]

Inspired by a recent thread What can you do without a teacher? Please only answer if you have spent at least 500+ hours with a teacher.

 

What do you practice?

 

What aspects of your training do you think someone would never get without a live example?

 

Do you think someone could learn what you have strictly through guided video instruction?

 

Have you recorded your practice and if so, what do you think the advantages are?

 

If you teach what do you think are the biggest two or three points you can pass on to a beginner that have to be felt?

[GreytoWhite]

I practice Kenny Gong's line of xingyi and bagua but have also done Chen taiji.

 

Without feeling my current sifu's ribs I'd never understand what he meant by "opening and closing the ribs like a pair of scissors." Without feeling sihing's lower back the other day I'd never understand exactly what I was trying to achieve with "belt breathing" or breathing into my kidneys. Without touching my taiji teacher's belly I'd never understand dantian rotation.

 

I think someone could get an idea as to some of these practices but replicate them without feeling, no. Especially when it comes to embodying martial neigong it is really easy to misinterpret texts and video instructions.

 

I record practice through writing and find it helps me understand what I'm trying to achieve. I don't know about video yet but I think it would help with external alignments self-correction.

 

When I teach I try to show people:

 

1) How to properly sit into the stance.

2) Multiple directions of lower dantian rotation and how to alternate opening the kuas.

3) Ribs expanding and contracting not only up and down out to the sides but also how to properly contract the sternum backward, not try to push down like a crunch. 

[Spotless]

The biggest drawback to self practice for a great portion of the journey is mixing and matching according to your proclivities.

Doing the portions you like and skipping the ones you have deemed unnecessary to practice or simply ones you don't care to do.

 

It is also amazing how often students just don't see how far off they are in mimicking - missing the hands, spaces between the placement of limbs, breathing, tongue placement, feet, right hand over left for men and the opposite for women in a number of postures, movement of left foot over and back with right foot stationary, the vertical axis, attention on the LDT - and did I mention attention on the LDT?

 

For the most part without a teacher - and even with a teacher - students see only a small portion of the teaching and much of what they unconsciously drop from their practice/awareness will be reflected in a greatly decreased practice quality. Given that most students drop out along the way - this greatly increases the drop out rate.

 

Students will hit milestones and it will often go to their heads - they will feel the urge to label and diminish or expand the experience - typically with no idea what kind of fence they are building - and for no useful purpose. Some students just need to be urged by a sane teacher to PUT DOWN THE BOOKS - stop the inner noise - practice.

 

Fully half the students arrive fresh from a blender with a sort of steeled look and a "prove it to me" energy. This is the student with Head up his/her ass syndrome - hopefully they can get past themselves or go rabbit hunting somewhere else. It is fine to have a student with discernment - but a wall of stupidity ridgidized by self assurance in this line of inquiry is better for those selling quick tricks.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Spotless

[GreytoWhite]

I couldn't have said it much better Spotless and I was one of those students for a long time. Confused, ignorant of how insignificant my practice milestones were, not maintaining the vertical axis, and breathing into my solar plexus more than lower dantian. So easy to get off track without someone with more experience to remind one to quit screwing about and actually work.

[Mudfoot]

Totally been there too, for years. Strange through, this was the years in the 90-ties when I belived this stuff could be learned by books and videos.

Ahhh, those were the days.

 

Actually managed to develope some nice blockages (Mantak Chia books) and became a McInstructor (would be impolite to mention names here).

 

Stopped when I found a teacher I felt I could stay with. Haven't regretted that yet.

[Gerard]

It's not so much the breathing what a teacher will show you but the entire mechanics of moving properly, stepping, connecting EVERYTHING that you are made of, discovering the link between BODY and MIND and having someone watching your back when errors are made which are numerous in the first 4-5 years of daily practice.

 

No teacher = FAIL.

 

Thanks for this very important and often overlooked topic amongst Westerners.

 

Also: make sure you find a good teacher (pray for this, bad teachers are plentiful) and that you are a good, dedicated, highly disciplined and humble student.

 

Good luck everyone.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Gerard

[Daeluin]

The most important teacher is the dao.

Learn to listen to the dao, and you will be guided.

These guides will come in all shapes and patterns, living and dead.

It is not about finding a good teacher,

but about becoming a good student.

[lazy man]

Daelin,

 

So simply:) Agree with your five lines.

 

The only (?) way  one can get around not having a "real" guide is to work on listening. Then the way becomes your guide, it trusts you and you trust it.... as you say.    

[Marblehead]

Yeah, if I wanted a teacher I would prefer it be a live one.

[Daeluin]

Yeah, if I wanted a teacher I would prefer it be a live one.

 

How are you so certain?

 

One of your guides could be a loving partner you've shared multiple past lives with, developing and growing as a team. Even as you seek for that lost connection externally in what is "alive", perhaps she nurtures you "invisibly" by your side, smiling at all those Marble-isms we've become so fond of around here. Naturally your "preferences" wouldn't mind her.

 

Whatever the case, I don't know anything.

 

As for guides, etc, the principle remains that like types gravitate to each other. We are all somewhere on our journey, and will draw and be drawn to who and what we resonate with. The 10,000 things are the surface, the dao is at their heart. Exploring the 10,000 things is endless. Exploring the heart of things brings everything closer together. Every step toward integration one is able to hear more subtlety unfolding internally, able to embody the connection between all things more fully. Every step one walks closer to the dao, one draws and is drawn to those who walk in the dao.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Daeluin

[Marblehead]

How are you so certain?

 

One of your guides could be a loving partner you've shared multiple past lives with, developing and growing as a team. Even as you seek for that lost connection externally in what is "alive", perhaps she nurtures you "invisibly" by your side, smiling at all those Marble-isms we've become so fond of around here. Naturally your "preferences" wouldn't mind her.

Oh, No!  Can't be doing that.  My Spirit of the Valley is a very jealous lovely.

 

 

But really, if one has the money, is willing to do the research of teachers, and is willing to consider that little or no progress might be the result, then sure, a live teacher, one-on-one time would be an excellent way to go.

 

I can't ever recall making any negative comments about teachers although I have cracked a few joke now and again.

 

And really, some people learn much better with live interaction with a teacher.

[Spotless]

The most important teacher is the dao.

Learn to listen to the dao, and you will be guided.

These guides will come in all shapes and patterns, living and dead.

It is not about finding a good teacher,

but about becoming a good student.

 

Their is a lot of wisdom in this as well - I know of at least one awakened person that talked to her guides. Guides are a real as we are and certainly not dead people walking around de-spirited. She had has many guides and they taught her. She was also taught by the plant kingdom.

 

She is a very high and fine teacher / healer.

[Ya Mu]

The importance of having a LIVE teacher instead of a dead one.

 

The dead ones have many advantages one of which is they never sleep. 

 

But one thing one can't do with a dead teacher that we can do with a live one is get pissed at them and either hit them (and then find ourselves on the floor) or walk away in indignation. 

 

Plus I have found the live ones to be a bit better at making move corrections. Because when the dead ones push on you you only feel the energy and see the corrected  movement but when a live one does it there is absolute and corrected movement. Sometimes the dead ones get this right but it is usually not as quick as the live ones.

 

I could probably list more advantages to the live teacher but one should get the gist of it from what I post above. I think they both have their place in a student's edification. 

[Marblehead]

Yep.  We can still read the words of the dead ones if they wrote any down.

[Spotless]

Typically also included in the Live teacher experience is other students - the group experience is a Hugh plus.

Not only is there the group energy which can be enjoyed and is beneficial in many ways, but in a similar vein to what Ya Mu stated above - you interact live with other students. You may become aroused, jealous, indignant, competitive, in awe, angry, repulsed and a whole pile of other things that you then can see, feel and work on.

 

Also, when working with guides most people do not have a clear communication wherein they are clearly separated and also do not look up to the guides. It is also common for many to allow their guides far to much leeway with their physical body - so this becomes an enormous risk. It is also very easy to have a fantasy relationship with the guides and ones fancies reducing one to a crazy minabird.

 

We all also match energy - when you are around other students and teachers a part of you will "match" their energies to some extent. This can open up all sorts of possible energy patterns that you might not naturally realize - it can open your many eyes to much greater freedom and depth. It is why some people spontaneously Wake up in the presence of the teacher - and often as not it may be the group energy and not the teacher that Pops you. The teacher is not "intentionally sending"out waves of enlightenment energy - they have a presence that a part of you resonates to - typically considerably higher than the energy you run - the group energy of an entire assemblage of students holding their highest energy in anticipation and in regulation out of respect for the teacher has very high internal consequences.

 

In-correct thinking can be adjusted quickly in group encounters and with teachers. You may find that you were thinking and acting in very limiting ways that are immediately rendered foolish and inappropriate within a group or teacher setting.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Spotless

[shanlung]

Yep.  We can still read the words of the dead ones if they wrote any down.

Except those words cannot mean anything , unless you have been taught well in the first place by a living Master.

 

A most fundamental aspect of taijichuan will be sung yeow juo kuan which will be mumbo jumbo and impossible to comphrehend regardless if ten thousand words were written on that.

 

Some of my rants on this topic.  Even though written as part of a dialogue in a forum many many years ago.

 

 

http://www.shanlung.com/oldtaijichuan.html

 

Idiotic Taoist

[Marblehead]

I cannot disagree with what you have said here Shanlung.

 

Personally, I learn best by observing one who is more proficient at what I am trying to learn than I am.  Yeah, that would be a teacher.

 

But many people do not have the funds or access to a live teacher so it is important that alternatives be discussed.

[Orion]

We all have an inner guru who's capable of helping us to achieve. Sometimes the guru is reflected in a live teacher, sometimes it's in a book or writing, sometimes it's from a completely unexpected source.

 

Figure out what your goal is. Be genuine and authentic with yourself about that goal -- it doesn't matter what other people think about it. If you're earnest in approaching that goal, then you will discover the proper methods. I don't think anyone can make a standard rule that live teachers are the best. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they are horrible. I've met people who spent years receiving teachings from someone, only to find out they were ripped off, short changed, or the teachings were watered down. On the other hand, good teachers, when discovered, are awesome!

 

I'm just saying... maybe try not to be so attached to how the learning plays out? If you let go, you might end up being surprised.