Suffering

[allinone]

I suffer almost all the time.

 

Its caused that i'm alone that is because i don't do nothing, its because whatever i do becomes to an end, everything dies.

 

I don't suffer if i am in some kind of illusion but that's not real me.

 

Thinking about it makes me happy, because if i touch the bottom of sadness i become unable to feel sadness. But i forget it and start suffer again till i get to the bottom again.

 

Its repeating, that happiness is false happiness therefore i suffer again.

 

 

[Jetsun]

The majority of our suffering is caused by trying to avoid suffering. That is pretty much the extent of Buddhist wisdom which has stuck with me. Yet it seems to be ingrained into the human organism to try to avoid suffering, so even if that principle is fully understood it is difficult to really embody it, at least I personally find it difficult.

 

We who are like senseless children shrink from suffering, but love its causes. We hurt ourselves; our pain is self-inflicted! 

- Shantideva

[3bob]

then again if you think about it everything the historic Buddha did was for pleasure,  pleasure that does not die... also called "wonder of wonders" by Him. 

 

 (thus and ultimately pleasure is not a dirty word or something to feel Buddhist or any other form of religious distaste or avoidance type of guilt about)

Edited July 15, 2015 by 3bob

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Yeah, important not to fetishise misery in the weird way some philosophical types and cultivators can do: http://thedaobums.com/topic/35341-lessons-in-buddhism/page-2#entry595982

 

What I get from your post, allinone, is that impermanence is making you miserable. I see two possibilities here:

 

1) You've been thinking about impermanence and basically made yourself feel that there's no point in anything because it just ends anyway -> stop contemplating like that, get some sunlight and nice company and exercise, practice metta and qigong. If none of that helps or seems possible some CBT or something may be in order.

 

2) You've been practising some good vipashyana, seeing impermanence to a deep level, and have got in the dark night stages -> learn about the nanas (http://contemplativefitnessbook.com/book-two-theory/the-progress-of-insight-map/), and keep going up to equanimity and beyond.

[Bud Jetsun]

One may only suffer through choosing to accept perception of experience as suffering.

 

Recognize you always had perfect mindfullness, as nobody else can think your thoughts for you.  Observe your mind thinking it's thoughts from a non-judgmental disassociated reference point, then recognize your choice of thoughts alone is the exclusive cause and source of your suffering.  

 

For reasons of compassion to yourself, choose to conclude the choice to suffer.  Nobody else can do it for you, it's a gift only you can provide for yourself, and it's instantly it's own best reward to choose. 

 

Perfect mindfulness realization only requires recognizing it could only have been illusion that perfect mindfulness was ever not already in your exclusive domain.   The moment this hidden-in-plain-sight realization is made is the last moment suffering occurs that isn't recognized as more than your own volunteered choice to experience suffering.

 

Once you've recognized mindfulness, simply choose to appreciate being this moment of now until tears of joy are leaving salt stains on your shirt. 

 

With unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Brian]

I gave up suffering for Lent.

[ChiForce]

The only thing that makes me suffer is when I am doing over 100 miles on a bike on a hot day.    Over 7 hours riding on a bike.  That's suffering. 

 

Suffering is nothing more than your emotional attachment to a particular situation in life because you tried to fulfill some expectations but you can't do it for some reasons.  You have to cut your suffering at the root cause.  Stop worshiping these expectations.  In fact, embrace you current situation instead.  

 

For an example....being alone is bad because no one wants to be with you....the way the society has been teaching you.  Well, embrace your loneliness because that's the only path to your liberation.  In due time, you would find a middle path.  Loneliness is no longer lonely enough.

Edited July 16, 2015 by ChiForce

[dust]

I don't suffer if i am in some kind of illusion but that's not real me.

 

What kind of illusion?

 

What is the real you?

 

 

 

I gave up suffering for Lent.

 

Do you miss it?

[Bud Jetsun]

The only thing that makes me suffer is when I am doing over 100 miles on a bike on a hot day.    Over 7 hours riding on a bike.  That's suffering. 

 

 

After you run 100 miles, riding via bicycle 100miles in any conditions feels like a relaxing pleasure.  

 

Perception of experience is all relative.   Even running for days without stopping on bloody raw feet can be pleasure if you choose to interpret it as such.  

 

The difference from some perception being 'pain' and some perception being 'pleasure' is if you great that perception with a loving embrace or fear.   

 

Rather than choosing to suffer your loneliness, appreciate the opportunity solitude offers to explore deeper exploration of the nature of reality. 

[ChiForce]

After you run 100 miles, riding via bicycle 100miles in any conditions feels like a relaxing pleasure.  

 

Perception of experience is all relative.   Even running for days without stopping on bloody raw feet can be pleasure if you choose to interpret it as such.  

 

The difference from some perception being 'pain' and some perception being 'pleasure' is if you great that perception with a loving embrace or fear.   

 

Rather than choosing to suffer your loneliness, appreciate the opportunity solitude offers to explore deeper exploration of the nature of reality. 

Well, we are talking about loneliness here but real suffering can come from your childhood experiences or something traumatic happened to you long ago.  That is the most difficult form of suffer to cut off.  Even if you manage to live a normal life, you are haunted by these experiences in your dreams. 

[3bob]

to be broken with broken dharma is objective like suffering that perception alone can't do much for excepting to help switch to a fighting mode of not only perception but also action against broken dharma which would then be turning things to an objective like pleasure, a.k.a "marching through hell for a heavenly cause" although some Buddhists may not dig such a comparison. (?)

Edited July 17, 2015 by 3bob

[Brian]

<snip>

Do you miss it?

Not even a little.

 

I watch others -- friends, family, co-workers -- and I view them with profound irony.

[allinone]

A

i said i'm alone because i don't do nothing. Its not me who is wanting to be alone, since i don't do nothing there isn't much people around.

If i drink then i would like it that it never ends, lots of interesting people in company. I don't drink because there is suffering afterwards. I could pretend that suffering doesn't come while partying but it does not help it, suffering will come.

 

Its undeniable fact. I have heard it from so many people, but they still continue. Also i continue, i can't stop causing myself to suffer.

 

B

If i am not doing anything its matter of a time that my mental state is causing me pain. Its similar to when you have read and studied so much that its like causing you faint if you try more to concentrate on the subject you want to learn and understand.

 

C

So i will let little bit of happiness into me by listening music, hanging around in forums, playing games etc.

 

Point A is B and C.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

OK, you're alone because you don't do anything. So why don't you do things? Music, forums and games are all just you distracting yourself from how you really feel and what needs to be done about it - they're you alone in a room not doing anything that will really fulfill you.

 

Is there really no way for you to socialize other than partying? Any hobbies you could join a club for or something? Part-time job? Volunteering?

 

What I hear you really saying is:

A - I don't do anything because it's all pointless (per the OP - 'everything dies'), so I am alone, but don't want to be alone.

B - this is making me suffer.

C - so I will distract myself from the loneliness by listening to music and posting on forums and playing games.

 

What I am saying is:

A - you don't do anything because you think it's all pointless (per the OP - 'everything dies'), so you're alone.

B - this makes you suffer.

C - get some CBT or at least find some way to change your 'everything dies' mindset

D - go do something with other people in real life.

[allinone]

If whatever you are clinging to starts to die, you suffer. It all starts out being interesting, but you get used to it and then it starts loss its value till it dies. 

You hanging around with a woman you like, but there comes another one with much better qualities, you then start to dislike the first and abandon her and take another.

 

So according to nature not to suffer i need to follow my own desire then i feel always fullfilled. But then other people suffer because of me.

 

I have lots of friends in animal kingdom but they afraid me, otherwise they would have killed and ate me long time ago.

[allinone]

Suffering is because you need to produce, take or give away to get rid of suffering.

 

Anyways there is no happiness in getting killed, kill, or be replaced.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Bump:

 

Yeah, important not to fetishise misery in the weird way some philosophical types and cultivators can do: http://thedaobums.com/topic/35341-lessons-in-buddhism/page-2#entry595982

 

What I get from your post, allinone, is that impermanence is making you miserable. I see two possibilities here:

 

1) You've been thinking about impermanence and basically made yourself feel that there's no point in anything because it just ends anyway -> stop contemplating like that, get some sunlight and nice company and exercise, practice metta and qigong. If none of that helps or seems possible some CBT or something may be in order.

 

2) You've been practising some good vipashyana, seeing impermanence to a deep level, and have got in the dark night stages -> learn about the nanas (http://contemplativefitnessbook.com/book-two-theory/the-progress-of-insight-map/), and keep going up to equanimity and beyond.

This is really the best I can say without knowing you in real life.

 

If you are in a valid dark night from good practice (option 2), keep going.

 

If not, then IMHO you are just making yourself clinically depressed with nihilistic thoughts, and you need to see where you're going wrong with that. The Byron Katie method may be helpful, but really therapy such as CBT may be a good move.

 

In any case, I wish you the best for getting to a better place as soon as possible. Reaching out on here was a good first step, and I hope some of the advice you've been given pulls you through.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Seeker of Wisdom

[allinone]

tnx, Seeker of  Wisdom.

 

Since i posted OP, i have had two more episodes. Currently i'm just looking back.

 

Life really is worth of living, it is beautiful. Too bad its coming to an end at some point tho.

 

Also to add i have been melancholic since birth. Whoever want to diagnose should keep that in mind that there are differences between people. Also we laugh to different jokes, doesn't understand ourselves.

Edited July 17, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

Also there is a tendency to give up too easily. Put that into category of restlessness. Can't get fire up by simple means, then either fry on a electrical oven or buy ready food. So never see the suffering.

 

Also yes i'm a troll or something, that's the reason i been left alone so quick.

 

I already know the answer to this, i go much farther, i can stand the rectum area. There is a decision point where either you let out or let your energy into legs for another round, but there everyone already died so you are only survivor of the battle.

Edited July 17, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

One may only suffer through choosing to accept perception of experience as suffering.

 

Recognize you always had perfect mindfullness, as nobody else can think your thoughts for you.  Observe your mind thinking it's thoughts from a non-judgmental disassociated reference point, then recognize your choice of thoughts alone is the exclusive cause and source of your suffering.  

 

For reasons of compassion to yourself, choose to conclude the choice to suffer.  Nobody else can do it for you, it's a gift only you can provide for yourself, and it's instantly it's own best reward to choose. 

 

Perfect mindfulness realization only requires recognizing it could only have been illusion that perfect mindfulness was ever not already in your exclusive domain.   The moment this hidden-in-plain-sight realization is made is the last moment suffering occurs that isn't recognized as more than your own volunteered choice to experience suffering.

 

Once you've recognized mindfulness, simply choose to appreciate being this moment of now until tears of joy are leaving salt stains on your shirt. 

 

With unlimited Love,

-Bud

ok i see. But you do it once, twice.. suffering seem not to stop but comes with new waves. In my case i'm in the sea of suffering.

Are you not noticed it, the sea of suffering?

Also its not unbearable suffering, there is pleasure component in suffering.

Edited July 18, 2015 by allinone

[allinone]

The only thing that makes me suffer is when I am doing over 100 miles on a bike on a hot day.    Over 7 hours riding on a bike.  That's suffering. 

 

Suffering is nothing more than your emotional attachment to a particular situation in life because you tried to fulfill some expectations but you can't do it for some reasons.  You have to cut your suffering at the root cause.  Stop worshiping these expectations.  In fact, embrace you current situation instead.  

 

For an example....being alone is bad because no one wants to be with you....the way the society has been teaching you.  Well, embrace your loneliness because that's the only path to your liberation.  In due time, you would find a middle path.  Loneliness is no longer lonely enough.

 

I am not looking for suffering, suffering finds me. Its kind of makes it hard to defeat.

[allinone]

to be broken with broken dharma is objective like suffering that perception alone can't do much for excepting to help switch to a fighting mode of not only perception but also action against broken dharma which would then be turning things to an objective like pleasure, a.k.a "marching through hell for a heavenly cause" although some Buddhists may not dig such a comparison. (?)

 

Are you saying that wrong thinking is cause of suffering.

 

If i think that poisonous apple doesn't hurt me, but it still hurts me, it makes me angry. So changing my perception doesn't help indeed. I need to abandon the apple.

[3bob]

one man's wrong thinking is another man's right thinking but True dharma doesn't depend on what men think, thus its laws are beyond only or just the ways or laws of mankind... also dharma is impartial but not indifferent just as "mother nature" is impartial but not indifferent. Further perception is only one part of the formula since the whole package is needed so to speak.

[allinone]

one man's wrong thinking is another man's right thinking but True dharma doesn't depend on what men think, thus its laws are beyond only or just the ways or laws of mankind... also dharma is impartial but not indifferent just as "mother nature" is impartial but not indifferent. Further perception is only one part of the formula since the whole package is needed so to speak.

 

If to think that dharma is elements. That would makes possible that different combination of elements can form bacteria what survives only by eating poisonous apples.

 

Yes then dharma is true for some and the same dharma is wrong for others and same Dharma can be true or wrong for both.

[3bob]

Following Dharma for human beings can lead to finding release from suffering....,  if you want to refer to the laws of the "jungle"  for mankind then that makes karma and more cycles of bondage;   for single bacteria which are solely bound to evolution they don't  yet have the potential or enough development to know freedom from being a bacteria - compared to how a human being might or has great potential to become free.