Stop the fire, stop the postnatal breathing...

[ChiForce]

Like, really?  I have been reading up on the Taoist Yoga http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Taoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality.pdf

 

Is interesting while referring to my own experiences.  Basically, once the MCO is in motion, the light of the spirit cavity would manifest itself as a white light.  At this point, you should stop the postnatal breathing according to the text.  Yeah, there are a lot of analogies about the MCO to cooking and heating herbal medicines. 

 

The most I could accomplish is to generate the MCO (with the appearance of a white light, sometimes it is bluish) but only managed to slow down my breathes a lot and they become shallow.  Is it really possible you CAN stop your breathing, stop the fire?  And switching to prenatal breathing, breathing only internally?  You are not supposed to "overcook."  Hehehehe.....

Edited July 15, 2015 by ChiForce

[voidisyinyang]

actually the MCO is only stopped near the very end of the training - when the golden light manifests the third time - that's my understanding or recollection. Quote the book if you have a reference for what you're talking about.

 

The white light is just the yin shen and only when it is seen externally is it the Absolute Void as the Tai Chi experience. When it is seen internally that is the relative void and just the yin qi manifesting in the brain - as the pineal gland converts the yin jing into yin qi and that will then increase the light in the brain.

 

So the prenatal breathing or immortal breathing - I think that is chapter 9 of Taoist YOga - and it only kicks in after the yin qi fills up the Conception Vessel - Ocean of Qi and then the lower tan tien begins filling up with yuan qi - replenishing the yuan qi.

 

As Wang Liping says it takes 6 hours of full lotus meditation a day to restore the yuan qi to fill up the lower tan tien - for 100 days or so. Actually he says a year I think.

 

So yeah TAoist Yoga says that also - I think it says 500 days of MCO practice to fill up the lower tan tien for the real Tai Chi experience.

 

Of course if you're relatively young and have not burned out too much yuan qi then it can be done faster - also with the help of energy healing from a qigong master.

 

Now to go beyond that point - the immortal breathing means Emptiness as nirvikalpa samadhi - so your body is filled with qi - you can sit in full lotus as long as you want in ease - you can sleep 5 hours  a night or even go without food - and do strong healing but then you use up your energy.

 

So the problem is people are very strongly to the energy - the more you practice the more other people want your energy. So at this stage like I did most people "fall back into worldliness" - as Master Nan, Huai-chin describes it - "due to heroic overexurberance."

 

But if you do stay in immortal breathing - the centers of the hands and feet pulsate along with the top of the head and physical breathing is minimal to not needed also water is not so much needed  - the qi converts any chemicals the body needs alchemically. so also you could go without food too if you can maintain Emptiness focus.

 

I think it's chapter 11 - when the third eye finally gets fully opened - but that would be after a couple months of "deep serenity" when you go deeper into the lower tan tien - the alchemical pill is stronger so the yuan jing is stronger for deeper Emptiness.

 

After that you work on the golden body - and so after it manifests 3 times - you then stop the MCO and work on the yang shen. That's the heavenly immortal stage - before that you can be an earthly immortal I think - which manifests the yin shen body. But at any stage in the training you can fall back and so it's a bit malleable - if you got so far before maybe you have fallen back since, etc.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[ChiForce]

Here is the passage..page 60

 

This is the lower tan tien cavity (under the navel) full of the alchemica agent which reveals to the eyes the beauty of the positive breath.  Whenever the practiser walks, stays, sits or reclines, he will see a white light in front of him, and, as time passes, this white light changes into a golden one.  This is the first manifestation of the golden light, and when it appears for a second time, the practiser should stop the fire.  The least careless on his part at this stage will cause risk and peril leading to utter failure..this is the most difficult phase.

 

Yes, in a deep samadhi, your breathing stops but you aren't even aware of it.  However, in this passage, he is saying that you have to stop breathing as your intent as if you have to forget about how to breath at all.  In this a conscious act?  That the idea of "needing" to breath is no longer there?   

Edited July 16, 2015 by ChiForce

[voidisyinyang]

the real question is do you see a white light - outside your head - at all times!

 

That means the third eye is fully open - that is a very advanced state.

 

Only after that state does the golden light manifest.

 

If you read more in detail - it's described in more detail later in the book about that stage of the practice.

[ChiForce]

the real question is do you see a white light - outside your head - at all times!

 

That means the third eye is fully open - that is a very advanced state.

 

Only after that state does the golden light manifest.

 

If you read more in detail - it's described in more detail later in the book about that stage of the practice.

Hmm.....no...the light is always inside because it is perceived by your third eye (or your original spirit cavity), when your eyes rolled back and looking back on itself, on the heart.  That's where the light comes from, the mysterious gate, your heart.  So, the light is always inside.  Does it matter your third eye can see the light while your eyes are open or close?  We know the light does not exist outside of you.   

 

More passage about this mysterious gate...page 69

 

It is wrong to seek it in the body and it is equally wrong to search for it outside.  For when it manifests it becomes a cavity and when it does not it is undiscoverable.

 

In another words, this white light, or the emergence of the golden light, is always your internal manifestation.  They don't exist outside of you.  If they don't appear, you would not find it inside your heart and your body, however.  Certainly not outside of you. 

Edited July 16, 2015 by ChiForce

[MooNiNite]

the real question is do you see a white light - outside your head - at all times!

 

That means the third eye is fully open - that is a very advanced state.

 

Only after that state does the golden light manifest.

 

If you read more in detail - it's described in more detail later in the book about that stage of the practice.

 

Which book is this?

 

How do you equate this with the crown at the top of the head opening?

[MooNiNite]

At the stage where someone stops breathing because of their concentration, do they have to sleep? I remember want liping saying that their is a stage where people stop sleeping. 

[ChiForce]

Which book is this?

 

How do you equate this with the crown at the top of the head opening?

Well, I am referring to the "Taoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality."  Is very repetitive BTW.  It seems like it is saying the same thing but differently most of the time.

[voidisyinyang]

Hmm.....no...the light is always inside because it is perceived by your third eye (or your original spirit cavity), when your eyes rolled back and looking back on itself, on the heart.  That's where the light comes from, the mysterious gate, your heart.  So, the light is always inside.  Does it matter your third eye can see the light while your eyes are open or close?  We know the light does not exist outside of you.   

 

More passage about this mysterious gate...page 69

 

It is wrong to seek it in the body and it is equally wrong to search for it outside.  For when it manifests it becomes a cavity and when it does not it is undiscoverable.

 

In another words, this white light, or the emergence of the golden light, is always your internal manifestation.  They don't exist outside of you.  If they don't appear, you would not find it inside your heart and your body, however.  Certainly not outside of you. 

 

 

In the very beginning of the book Taoist Yoga talks about the difference between Relative Void and Absolute Void - it's the end of chapter 1.

 

By referring to light inside your head you're talking about Relative Void - Taoist Yoga says that's absolutely useless - because it's just tied to the physical body transformations.

 

The absolute void as light outside the head means you have achieved the Tai Chi which is the Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen united as nondualism - beyond inner and outer.

 

So you think the book is repetitive - but you haven't even understood chapter one yet. haha.

 

I studied the book for 15 years and didn't even start to crack its meaning - I got to chapter 6 in practice with hints of chapter 9 and chapter 11.

 

 

Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality - Page 3 - Google Books Result

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0877280673

Charles Luk, ‎Pi Chʻen Chao, ‎Kʻuan Yü Lu - 1973 - ‎Health & Fitness

Answer Seeing the void as not empty is right and seeing the void as empty ... Voidness which does not radiate is relative but voidness which radiates is absolute.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[ChiForce]

 

In the very beginning of the book Taoist Yoga talks about the difference between Relative Void and Absolute Void - it's the end of chapter 1.

 

By referring to light inside your head you're talking about Relative Void - Taoist Yoga says that's absolutely useless - because it's just tied to the physical body transformations.

 

The absolute void as light outside the head means you have achieved the Tai Chi which is the Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen united as nondualism - beyond inner and outer.

 

So you think the book is repetitive - but you haven't even understood chapter one yet. haha.

 

I studied the book for 15 years and didn't even start to crack its meaning - I got to chapter 6 in practice with hints of chapter 9 and chapter 11.

 

 

Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality - Page 3 - Google Books Result

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0877280673

Charles Luk, ‎Pi Chʻen Chao, ‎Kʻuan Yü Lu - 1973 - ‎Health & Fitness

Answer Seeing the void as not empty is right and seeing the void as empty ... Voidness which does not radiate is relative but voidness which radiates is absolute.

No.....the immortal light it is talking about can only be perceived by the original cavity of the spirit, which is behind the eyes and in front of the third eye.  I don't know where you get the idea that the light is OUTSIDE.    Keep searching it because you won't find it.  I know what I am reading here.    It does not matter how long you have studied this book because I could complete MCO more than 20 years ago (called it the Kundalini energy rising) without ever even studying in any Toaist texts.  You should know that the Tao does not care how long you have studied the Taoist text.  Hehehehe...there you go....   Hell, I even have a vision of a Taoist immortal showing me that his upper dan tien was lit up with white light, inside.  It wasn't outside.  There was nothing outside his body.  Do I believe this highly realized being in my vision or you??  I think I know my answer.  Now, I understood why he was showing me his upper dan tien and why it was lit up.  Also, before that, his eyes were lit up as well...because his eyes reflecting the illumination of his heart.  Is all clear.....        

 

Please, the relative void is complete darkness, that does not radiate.  If it radiates, it is the absolute void.  The light manifestation is always inside, perceived by the original cavity of the spirit, behind the eyes and in front of the third eye.  The text never mention about this manifestation should exist outside the body.  You got it all wrong...      

Edited July 16, 2015 by ChiForce

[voidisyinyang]

No.....the immortal light it is talking about can only be perceived by the original cavity of the spirit, which is behind the eyes and in front of the third eye.  I don't know where you get the idea that the light is OUTSIDE.    Keep searching it because you won't find it.  I know what I am reading here.    It does not matter how long you have studied this book because I could complete MCO more than 20 years ago (called it the Kundalini energy rising) without ever even studying in any Toaist texts.  You should know that the Tao does not care how long you have studied the Taoist text.  Hehehehe...there you go....   Hell, I even have a vision of a Taoist immortal showing me that his upper dan tien was lit up with white light, inside.  It wasn't outside.  There was nothing outside his body.  Do I believe this highly realized being in my vision or you??  I think I know my answer.  Now, I understood why he was showing me his upper dan tien and why it was lit up.  Also, before that, his eyes were lit up as well...because his eyes reflecting the illumination of his heart.  Is all clear.....        

 

Please, the relative void is complete darkness, that does not radiate.  If it radiates, it is the absolute void.  The light manifestation is always inside, perceived by the original cavity of the spirit, behind the eyes and in front of the third eye.  The text never mention about this manifestation should exist outside the body.  You got it all wrong...      

 

 

The text does not - and never says that the Original Cavity of Spirit is "behind the eyes and in front of the third eye" - you have made this up.

 

I'm amazed at what length people will twist the meaning of Taoist YOga to suit their own egotistical obstructions.

 

Don't get me wrong - I made the same mistake for years about my "O at a Ds" - and not until I returned to really study the Taoist Yoga book did I correct my errors.

 

It takes a lot of psychological gumption to really bare down and study the MEANING of the Taoist Yoga book.

 

Let's quote the book directly - which you have not done so yet:

 

 

Question: Will you please explain the saying: 'If one reaches the original cavity of spirit (tsu chi'ao in the centre of the brain between and behind the eyes) one will find the source of immortal breath?'

p. 3

 

 

o.k. the pineal gland is in the center of the brain.

 

 

Question: Will you please give me the exact location of the original cavity of spirit? Answer: It is (in the centre of the brain).... In this centre is a pearl of the size of a grain of rice....

 

p. 4

 

 

The pineal gland is the size of a grain of rice in the center of the brain.

 

Now what you are referring to is the pituitary gland.

 

I made this same error back in 2000 - you can see this in my article published from 2000. I rediscovered this error recently rereading my article.

 

http://nonduality.com/whatis8.htm

 

So there it is.

 

 

Also at this stage, beside the problem of getting too excited and out of balance from attachment to the powers, it is also very easy to become scared. To literally not feel your body, or too literally feel your pituitary gland in the middle of your brain become heated up and charged full of energy is a bizarre experience to say the least. To literally experience psychic powers as the norm of processing reality, to experience one’s aura extending out -- a field of energy vibrations rippling and processing the thoughts and emotions of others before those thoughts or emotions are communicated through words or body language ã these can be intimidating experiences.

 

So at that point in my training I had confused the pituitary gland which is in front of the pineal gland - with the third eye - no it is the pineal gland that is the size of a grain of rice in the center of the brain, not the pituitary gland.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[ChiForce]

The text does not - and never says that the Original Cavity of Spirit is "behind the eyes and in front of the third eye" - you have made this up.

 

I'm amazed at what length people will twist the meaning of Taoist YOga to suit their own egotistical obstructions.

 

Don't get me wrong - I made the same mistake for years about my "O at a Ds" - and not until I returned to really study the Taoist Yoga book did I correct my errors.

 

It takes a lot of psychological gumption to really bare down and study the MEANING of the Taoist Yoga book.

 

Let's quote the book directly - which you have not done so yet:

 

 

p. 3

 

 

o.k. the pineal gland is in the center of the brain.

 

 

 

p. 4

 

 

The pineal gland is the size of a grain of rice in the center of the brain.

 

Now what you are referring to is the pituitary gland.

 

I made this same error back in 2000 - you can see this in my article published from 2000. I rediscovered this error recently rereading my article.

 

http://nonduality.com/whatis8.htm

 

So there it is.

 

 

 

So at that point in my training I had confused the pituitary gland which is in front of the pineal gland - with the third eye - no it is the pineal gland that is the size of a grain of rice in the center of the brain, not the pituitary gland.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...you are delusional.  I am done here.  I would have made more quotes but I don't feel like typing up passages to prove you are more than wrong, more like blasphemy, since I can't copy and paste.  I am on page 115 right now and the text never mentioned anything about the mysterious gate, the circle of light, to be found and to exist outside.  Is not even funny since the master mentioned So sososososos many times about the original cavity and how it is behind the eyes and in front of the third eye.  And how you must drive the spirit from the original spirit cavity and down to the dan tien.  Thereby, negative heart energy can be mixed with the positive energy of mortal cavity, root of the penis.  That's why I am saying that the text is repetitive.  You obviously have problems and seeing things in the text that aren't there.    Really, 15 years....well...       

 

Hey genius, look up at the glossary on page 191, at the bottom where it defines the Original Cavity of the Spirit.  That's right..the spot between and behind the eyes and in front of the third eye (pineal gland if you want to get technical about it).  

 

Sigh...another reason why you are more than wrong is that in order to perceive this mysterious gate, you need an eye to see it.  That's why it has to be in front of the third eye.  It can not be no top or inside the third eye.    

Edited July 17, 2015 by ChiForce

[voidisyinyang]

Hey genius, look up at the glossary on page 191, at the bottom where it defines the Original Cavity of the Spirit.  That's right..the spot between and behind the eyes and in front of the third eye (pineal gland if you want to get technical about it).  

 

 

Yeah - so you make a claim but you don't want to provide any evidence.

 

I provide the quotes from the books and you say you're done and I'm delusional.

 

So then you refer to the book more specifically - a page number!

 

Let's direct quote it again:

 

 

"original cavity of spirit: (Yuan Shen Shih or tsu chi'ao, the ancestral cavity) a spot between and behind the eyes, where a light manifests when the practiser succeeds in concentrating on it."

 

p. 191-2.

 

So notice nowhere does it say "in front of the third eye."

 

Now what it does say is the same thing I already quoted and what I already quoted had a follow up question.

 

What is the EXACT location of the original cavity of spirit - yes it is between and behind the eyes - but it is NOT in front of the third eye:

 

 

Question: Will you please give me the exact location of the original cavity of spirit? Answer: It is (in the centre of the brain).... In this centre is a pearl of the size of a grain of rice....

 

the third eye is the original cavity of spirit - the pearl a size of the grain of rice - the pineal gland in the center of the brain.

[ChiForce]

Hahahahaha...proofs?  Evidences?  Hahahaha....surely you jested.  They only exist in one's meditation achievement.  Not from what passages you can quote from and type up.  I am about to meditate and looking forward to see this mysterious gate in front of my third eye.  heheheh....