Attainment beyond Sleep

[MooNiNite]

Many refer to masters going for long periods with out sleep. It would almost seem that there is an attainment where one no longer requires as much sleep.

 

What are you views on this? Is it healthy for such a master to do this? 

 

 

Note: This thread is not about one trying to go without sleep for long periods of time or pushing themselves toward it for some attainment. This thread is about those who have already attained something that is possibly naturally causing them to go without sleep for long periods of time, and if that is harmful. 

 

I dont have anything against sleep, I'm not advocating sleep deprivation. Hopefully this is clear. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by MooNiNite

[thelerner]

Like bigu (not eating) it seems to be a siddhi best arrived at naturally, coming without over due strain.  Reading an interview with one woman (forget her name from the book Masters of the Way) she'd go days without eating or sleeping, not on purpose, she just didn't feel like it, and was very intuned with her body. 

 

Very high practitioners seem to run multiple brain waves at the same time (see Anna Wise's work), which may alleviate some need for sleep.  Which might be the phenomena of meditating once a day 'for 24 hours'.  High level indeed, cause not sleeping causes psychosis after 2 or 3 days.  

[Aetherous]

I think it's unhealthy even (especially) for masters to be going without normal sleep (go to bed fairly early, get a good 7-8 uninterrupted hours). Other threads have asked the question, "why do masters die young?" Well, this would be one reason, if it applied to such a person.

Often "masters" are the ones who are burning the wick at both ends. It's hard not to do, because society makes you burn one way, spirituality makes you burn another way, and then you're burning by doing entertaining things as well, and possibly also burning due to emotions etc.

A healthy body is a well oiled body. The lamp needs oil or else it will extinguish soon. When oil runs low, then the wick burns and then the life ends.

 

Getting little sleep is like running a car on low oil...it starts grinding, overheating internally, etc. Soon the engine will clunk out, unless it gets the lubrication it needs. So, nourish the body in healthy ways. To do this doesn't make you weak...actually weakness is a body that can no longer sleep normally. Just my view.

[Orion]

Considering the modern lifestyle and the state of food, I'm not sure that the bigu lifestyle in of itself guarantees anything anymore. Unless you have the economic luxury of less work, and access to pure food, I'm not sure it works in an equivalent way to ancient times.

 

Still worth pursuing though, IMO... especially no grains.

 

I've gone through periods where my body was so clean from diet and lifestyle that I only slept a few hours a night. I did notice though that there were still periods during the day where my consciousness naturally slowed down and I would go into a pseudo-sleep kind of state for a while. Then I would return to normal some time later.

 

Meditation can help with that too.

[hagar]

When the Shen is fully integrated into the body, and cultivated for a long period of time, you might not sleep much. 

 

But to focus on not sleeping as a goal itself is like trying to fly with a feather in each hand. It´s not only impossible, but also a waste of time.

 

What often is overlooked in such "attainments" is the notion of spontaneity. Certain powers or phenomena in the body occur as a byproduct, spontaneously. Like the water boiling. It´s more like a natural law.

 

Getting good quality sleep every night, feeling fully rested; that is a superpower, and something your body will be much more grateful for.

 

Sleep is such a blessing. Total abandonment, letting go. No self, no trouble, no life situation. No other. Sleep is one of life´s greatest gifts. The great rejuvenator.

 

I have seen many practitioners in my system working hard on their practice. After some days on a retreat, they finally get in touch of their lack of sleep, and some might sleep for days. When they finally reappear, they look 10 years younger. 

Most people seek in energy practices what they naturally would get if they only slept enough. No practice, no effort.

 

Sleep is pure grace.

 

h

Edited July 19, 2015 by hagar

[MooNiNite]

When the Shen is fully integrated into the body, and cultivated for a long period of time, you might not sleep much. 

 

 

Do you believe it is healthy for those at this stage to not sleep much?

Edited July 20, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

I think it's unhealthy even (especially) for masters to be going without normal sleep (go to bed fairly early, get a good 7-8 uninterrupted hours). Other threads have asked the question, "why do masters die young?" Well, this would be one reason, if it applied to such a person.

 

Often "masters" are the ones who are burning the wick at both ends. It's hard not to do, because society makes you burn one way, spirituality makes you burn another way, and then you're burning by doing entertaining things as well, and possibly also burning due to emotions etc.

 

A healthy body is a well oiled body. The lamp needs oil or else it will extinguish soon. When oil runs low, then the wick burns and then the life ends.

 

Getting little sleep is like running a car on low oil...it starts grinding, overheating internally, etc. Soon the engine will clunk out, unless it gets the lubrication it needs. So, nourish the body in healthy ways. To do this doesn't make you weak...actually weakness is a body that can no longer sleep normally. Just my view.

 

What if their concentration causes them not to be tired? Do you still believe they should try to sleep?

 

In some sects of kundalini, the top of the head opens, and it is almost like absorbing energy from a different source, so these people are almost recieving more energy than normal people. 

 

 

In response to your assessment, Some might argue that great masters live longer than everybody. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by MooNiNite

[gatito]

There are three naturall states:-

• Waking
• Dreaming
• Deep Sleep

They're all there for a healthy purpose (and hagar's use of the word grace is far from inappropriate).

[MooNiNite]

http://www.ishafoundation.org/blog/video/insomnia-the-different-kinds-a-few-solutions/

 

Watch at Around 5 minutes.

 

 

Sadhguru makes the point that when the pineal gland secretions increase, Amrita, then one will not sleep. They will require less sleep and they will feel well. If they feel well then there is no problem, he says it is a good thing and something to be happy about, because sleep is death. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

There are three naturall states:-

• Waking
• Dreaming
• Deep Sleep

They're all there for a healthy purpose (and hagar's use of the word grace is far from inappropriate).

 

But dreamers, the ones who live life like a dream while they are awake are at a natural state of deep sleep while awake.

[MooNiNite]

Brain waves of more conscious individuals can be at similar wavelengths of those in deep sleep

[doc benway]

One of my current practices is dream yoga.

Through this practice we begin to see the nature of dream and, through that, the nature of wakefulness.

As we begin to see that they are of one taste, the distinction softens.

Rather than concerning myself with how much or little I should sleep, I'm more focused on being conscious, being lucid, whether I am living in the waking or sleep dream.

 

To address the original question, I find that skillful meditation is as restful and rejuvenating as sleep.

I think that as we are able to more fully and completely rest during our waking meditation, our physiological, energetic, and psychological need for sleep can diminish. And imagine when we are skillful enough to meditate in sleep as well!

I've had a few, brief experiences of this but it's very inconsistent still.

[Aetherous]

What if their concentration causes them not to be tired? Do you still believe they should try to sleep?

 

In some sects of kundalini, the top of the head opens, and it is almost like absorbing energy from a different source, so these people are almost recieving more energy than normal people.

 

 

In response to your assessment, Some might argue that great masters live longer than everybody.

Yes they should still try to sleep and perhaps get treatments to balance their physiological condition.

 

I experience receiving energy through the crown and having more than others, and I get a full night because the human body needs it for optimal performance and lifespan.

 

Great masters live longer than others if they take care of their bodies...the ones who don't, I wonder why we would call them masters.

[MooNiNite]

need for sleep can diminish. And imagine when we are skillful enough to meditate in sleep as well!

I've had a few, brief experiences of this but it's very inconsistent still.

 

i'v heard of this, something like being conscious in a vast white space

[MooNiNite]

Yes they should still try to sleep and perhaps get treatments to balance their physiological condition.

 

I experience receiving energy through the crown and having more than others, and I get a full night because the human body needs it for optimal performance and lifespan.

 

Great masters live longer than others if they take care of their bodies...the ones who don't, I wonder why we would call them masters.

 

You do not believe it is possible they have more restfulness during their waking life than an average person? And thus they may need less sleep?

[Aetherous]

Of course I believe they can be more rested during waking life...but we all need a normal nights sleep.

[vonkrankenhaus]

In this "air realm" we experience half-light/half-dark.

 

In the "womb realm" we experienced all dark.

 

The "spirit realm" is all light.

 

We need to understand what sleep is and why we sleep before we decide how much of it we need.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[ChiForce]

If I understand correctly, at this stage when you don't need sleep, you are very closed to being an immortal and about to give birth to the immortal fetus.    I don't think that's anything most of us have to WORRY about.  Hehehehehehe....

 

I value sleep because highly realized beings would only appear to you in your sleep, in your dreams.  Without sleep, how do expect to progress in your cultivation.  Surely, not all of the cultivation secrets can be passed on to you through texts and books.  Certainly, not through your "living" masters. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by ChiForce

[doc benway]

i'v heard of this, something like being conscious in a vast white space

There are two different things -

1. Practicing meditation while lucid in the dream state. This is a part of dream yoga.

2. Achieving "lucidity" in sleep in the absence of dream. This is referred to as sleep yoga or the sleep of clear light.

[ChiForce]

There are two different things -

1. Practicing meditation while lucid in the dream state. This is a part of dream yoga.

2. Achieving "lucidity" in sleep in the absence of dream. This is referred to as sleep yoga or the sleep of clear light.

Is beyond lucid if you have a clear light dream.  In your dream state, you have reached the non-duality state which is manifested by a clear, luminous white light and it is called rigpa.  You are basically meditating in your sleep without consciously knowing that you are meditating.   

[Fate]

During my first experience with qi gong and cultivating a lot of Fire Chi, I definitely found it more difficult to shut down and sleep. One of the 'realizations' I had in that place was that Batman was able to go without sleep because he used different parts of his brain during the day and other parts at night. Of course, I was blending all sorts of lines in reality so your experience may vary.

 

Also from Osho's writings, the place where one goes in deep sleep is the same as Enlightenment, only a Buddha is conscious of entering that place.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Fate

[hagar]

Do you believe it is healthy for those at this stage to not sleep much?

 

If you have the essential light totally integrated, probably you do not need to sleep. 

 

h

[C T]

Is it possible to reach a level of mastery where little to no sleep is needed? Very possible. Its just another siddhi after all. 

 

Whether its necessary or not is a totally different matter altogether. 

 

For example, Lama Zopa Rinpoche in his younger days slept very little. Most of the time he spends on compassionate activity, either teaching, prayers and making offerings for beings in need. He can sit and teach for 12 to 15 hours a day non-stop, and then maybe sleep for 2 or 3 hours and continue again from where he left off. For example, a session could end at 3 am, and resume again at 5. Quite amazing. 

[MooNiNite]

In this "air realm" we experience half-light/half-dark.

 

In the "womb realm" we experienced all dark.

 

The "spirit realm" is all light.

 

We need to understand what sleep is and why we sleep before we decide how much of it we need.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Can you please elaborate?

[MooNiNite]

If I understand correctly, at this stage when you don't need sleep, you are very closed to being an immortal and about to give birth to the immortal fetus.    I don't think that's anything most of us have to WORRY about.  Hehehehehehe....

 

I value sleep because highly realized beings would only appear to you in your sleep, in your dreams.  Without sleep, how do expect to progress in your cultivation.  Surely, not all of the cultivation secrets can be passed on to you through texts and books.  Certainly, not through your "living" masters. 

 

Not to get too far off topic, but this reminds me of a visit I had a while back. I was visited by a person in my dream, something inside me knew they were a master and I asked them to take me as a disciple, but they replied that I have to choose 1 thing. The master was referring to life, and me choosing one thing, with regards to my work. I still havent choosen one thing.