Socialism does work

[Wu Ming Jen]

As a small business owner in the US why did I choose to be a LLC? Business profits are taxed as personal income no matter if it stays in the business account or drawn as salary. I might need to take a closer look at becoming a corporation, but its about dollars not billions right now.

[ralis]

I am getting ready to retire this fall. Perhaps I will retire to the poker tables in Vegas. Great town, plenty of beautiful babes, good food and fun. Death Valley, Mt Whitney and Yosemite are not far. I have camped out just below the Whitney portal above Lone Pine Ca. next to the glacial end moraines. Can't beat that!

 

Image of Mt. Whitney from the portal.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by ralis

[ralis]

My reason for posting the above photo is that public lands are and have been set aside for all to enjoy by the government. There are many right wing types that want to sell off these lands to private interests which would be a travesty.

[Wu Ming Jen]

There is good and bad with all things. Good for you to take the high road. I find it much easier to travel that road then to blame worlds, countries, groups  and all the rest on how sucky they may have made their lives. Personally I do not like politics, people are people all around the world. It just seems that the heady ones get mixed up in stuff that takes their lives away. congratulation on retirement you worked for it. If America had lost the war against britain my life would be the same well beyond the world of politics.

[gendao]

The persons you are referring to that don't earn enough are generally victims of outsourced jobs that are in China. That is a general statement based on the loss of 60,000 U.S. manufacturing plants that were shipped to China. Corporations are rewarded for such behavior by being given tax breaks. 

Just like all the illegal immigrants too, right?

 

Nationalist Socialist = Fascist, correct?

 

Funny though as the US has become more Socialist, its debt has ballooned and productivity declined.

While as China has become more capitalist, its fortunes have dramatically soared from Communist poverty.

 

Yet somehow...the party line still remains, "Socialism does work?"

 

Well, perhaps it theoretically would in a closed loop vacuum of global Socialism - with zero capitalist competition to face.  Whereas, capitalism works anywhere, and generally even better against Socialist competition...  It certainly doesn't "need" the whole world to also be capitalist - to work.

 

 

[zerostao]

How is my analogy inaccurate? A logical explanation, please?

 

Because 0.1 is not the same as 0.001. it is highly inaccurate; precisely 100,000% inaccurate in raw numerical sense.

 

You also have interesting stereotypical presumptions about the rich. Which in fact don't apply to all rich people, and many apply to poor people as well.

 

It seems you are the one being presumptive here. Most likely i have more rich people in my close circles than you do. Am i rich?

where does the name zeros come from? becoz, i have nothing or becoz i have stacked up a few zeros?

 

 

What exactly makes them worthy of your jealous contempt, sour grapes 

 

Hardly, lmao, would i be jealous or have sour grapes. my life is a bowl of cherries, peaches and cream. i do as i please each and every day. no worries.

 

 

And does not any employer have the right to pay whoever he wants with his money? If workers in China provide a higher value, then why shouldn't he hire them? Isn't that also promoting true global diversity - or is diversity only good in your local region? And what competitive choice does he even have when the consumer (rich and poor) will ultimately demand the highest-value product, wherever it is made?

 

Good point. in my neck of the woods globalization is going so well, i wonder if it isnt being artificially propped up/subsidized to appear the great deal it appears to be. i have every known fruit, vegetable, nut, etc stocked in my pantry now. all for peanuts basically.

i think the bizness owner/ employer has every right to hire who he wishes as long as it is legal. i also feel if the american employer chooses to hire overseas as opposed to local--there should be a tax assessed. 

 

Whereas if he only hires Americans, in accordance with minimum wage & affirmative action government regulations, to produce a much costlier and marginal-quality product...but no one buys it - he will go out of business. As the saying goes, "the customer is always right." And the reality is, without low-cost/high-value goods, Americans would be suffering a MUCH lower quality of life right now.

 

In my neck of the woods, folks will buy american if there is that opportunity. we buy local goods, produce, meat etc. the fact that we cannot be informed what countries origin of meat we are buying is curious and i prefer transparency rather than not knowing. I dont agree with your americans would be suffering comment. you are an enthusiastic globalist, that's fine. globalism is here and it seems an easy adjustment. almost too easy tbh, that has me skeptical.

 

As far as illegal immigrants, Bernie Sanders supports them. So, if you support Bernie, you do too...and the "1%" who hire them.

I support everybody including you,  young grasshopper.

[zerostao]

Well I'm glad you enjoyed it.

it's over? past tense not present? damn i had a few more things to add. 

i guess i will close out my contribution to this thread by saying as an american, appalachian hillbilly to be specific, i reckon i do not know what a socialist is and so forth. how many frogs are in the pond?

[zerostao]

You should support the free market in the USA. The products coming from China are far cheaper than the U.S. could have produced. This is a change prompted by the ending of Chinese communism. A flood of new workers were then available for production. It effectively exported US price inflation abroad. This has caused massive trauma for the workers in the U.S. Who have seen there jobs disappear. The problem is that the corporations and Government have failed to adapt. Those that have lost their jobs now get crappy, low paid jobs because crony capitalist policies have nailed entrepreneurs legs to the floor. Then the monetary policies have destroyed capital formation and money has been doled out to industries which the Government thinks are winners and not what the market has priced as winners. If they aren't doing that they are goosing up asset markets. It's all illusiory economics based on sand. 1. Cut military spending 2. Cut anti competition policies causing cronyism. 3. Stop interventions abroad. 4. Get rid of obamacare 5. Cut taxes 6. Cut government The free ride for crony corporates is at an end and so is big government spending. It's time to go back to proper free market economics and let the real economy grow.

it was an easy thing to do. all it took was america sacrificing it's middle class to enable china to have a middle class.

cheap products are not necessarily a good thing. i think the "massive trauma" thing has been way overstated, in fact in america our "poor" people do quite alright. if one in america is at our official poverty level that still equates to being in the top 10% of wealthy folks on this planet. having non americans telling us to cut our military and/or restructure our economy is amusing. it is easier for the rest of the world to adjust to the american way, truth, justice, etc

than for america to adjust to the world's ways. let's keep it real. talk about illusory gg

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Karl]

My reason for posting the above photo is that public lands are and have been set aside for all to enjoy by the government. There are many right wing types that want to sell off these lands to private interests which would be a travesty.

It wouldn't. It would protect them and right wing types would consider that area for use by the state for whatever purposes it deemed necessary for the good of the state. In other words they wouldn't privatise them, they would remain in state control.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Karl

[Apech]

it's over? past tense not present? damn i had a few more things to add. 

i guess i will close out my contribution to this thread by saying as an american, appalachian hillbilly to be specific, i reckon i do not know what a socialist is and so forth. how many frogs are in the pond?

 

It's not over till the banjo player sings.

[Karl]

it was an easy thing to do. all it took was america sacrificing it's middle class to enable china to have a middle class.

cheap products are not necessarily a good thing. i think the "massive trauma" thing has been way overstated, in fact in america our "poor" people do quite alright. if one in america is at our official poverty level that still equates to being in the top 10% of wealthy folks on this planet. having non americans telling us to cut our military and/or restructure our economy is amusing. it is easier for the rest of the world to adjust to the american way, truth, justice, etc

than for america to adjust to the world's ways. let's keep it real. talk about illusory gg

 

Cheaper products are always a good thing. Quality withstanding. I've never heard or seen anyone unhappy about a price cut except for those who bought prior to it and those that have to compete with it.

 

The massive trauma will be coming your way shortly. The dollar hegemony has so far insulated the U.S. Generally from the financial oppression caused by central banking and government policy. Those that have lost well paying jobs in the middle sector have seen their lifestyles go down hill at a rapid rate.

 

Of course it's true that the U.S. 'Poor' (as all western poor) are immensely well off in comparison to the vast bulk of the rest of the world. However that's just an excuse for ignoring those that have lost their median income and are scrabbling around trying to keep afloat of rising prices, families and debt. Your government and its financial cronies have direct responsibility for the damage they have done and they show no signs of empathy and are busy heaping pain on pain whilst creating illusions of growth through manipulated statistics and media talking heads.

 

The U.S. Is trillions in debt, there is no hope of ever paying off that debt and it's weight is crushing down on the productive. Meanwhile a few billionaires get a few more billion. It's time this financial oppression was ended and the sooner the better. The first step is for the addict to admit he has a problem.

 

 

[dust]

having non americans telling us to cut our military and/or restructure our economy is amusing. it is easier for the rest of the world to adjust to the american way, truth, justice, etc

 

American way, truth, justice, all in the same sentence, without irony? I mean are you seriously serious?

[Brian]

You are a lyer and a pathetically obvious one.

 

 

Being able to work successfully in leading positions in industry or other established systems in society boils down to a logical thinking ability average in college-degree absolvents (related to the normal distribution: around 115 with a standard deviation of 15, that means upper average related to the population) and an above or highly above average memory. It's about 1. being able to memorize and to learn strategies that are established to lead to success and work in the position aimed at for example from your superiors, in courses or even from books 2. and to be able to exercise them correctly as learned. You don't have to be the great thinker or be able to understand your memorized patterns of behavior, your memorized arguments or your memorized data. As long as a person has at least a logical thinking ability of 115, the level of memory decides the personal potential to be able to climb the ladder in industry and similar systems. Certain personality traits like licking ass upwards and booting downwards are of course necessary too. Established patterns usually work if applied correctly as learned without being understood by the applier. I see many people here being clubbed down or muted by your walls of text that represent high amounts of historical data and these people don't get that you are unable to understand the included patterns and therefore simply don't get the big picture. As they lack the logical thinking ability themselves to get it but lack the education and memory you have, they simply assume that you understand what you are talking about. I guess this situation mirrors others in many areas of your life including subordinating your workers, wife and children.

 

Your obviously from your superiors memorized strategy to first first pat your opponent at the back to lower his defences to be able to add a successful kick is pathetic, you should invent a better one...but you obviously can't. Insight, understanding and subsequent invention and creation, that has nothing to do with the level of memory...

While I'm fairly certain you will whine as such to your associates on some other forum, the fact that is tirade was directed at a member of the management team is irrelevant.

[Marblehead]

Has somebody strapped up your typing finger ? It's not like you. I'm worried.

No worries.  It's just life.

[Marblehead]

My reason for posting the above photo is that public lands are and have been set aside for all to enjoy by the government. There are many right wing types that want to sell off these lands to private interests which would be a travesty.

That fight has been going on from the beginning.  There will always be someone wanting to make a profit from what Nature has given to all of us.  Conservation and protectionism are pretty strong in the USA right now so any buying up of public lands by corporate greed should be very limited for a while.

[Marblehead]

it's over? past tense not present? damn i had a few more things to add. 

i guess i will close out my contribution to this thread by saying as an american, appalachian hillbilly to be specific, i reckon i do not know what a socialist is and so forth. how many frogs are in the pond?

No, the game is never over.  I just felt like complimenting Apech for a thread that brought about some really good discussions and may well continue to do so into infinity.

 

Afterall, the premise is:  Would you rather be governed by a Capitalist of Social form of dictatorship?

 

True that Y'all up in Appalachia don't get too much hastle from government as there are few resources for the wealthy to grab.

 

Even with the drones flying over government has so far been unable to find most of you folks.

[Marblehead]

It's not over till the banjo player sings.

Banjo players don't sing.  (Well, rarely.)

[Marblehead]

Your government and its financial cronies have direct responsibility for the damage they have done and they show no signs of empathy and are busy heaping pain on pain whilst creating illusions of growth through manipulated statistics and media talking heads.

True this and I have never held back on stating my opinion of it.  But sadly it is too late to even consider electing different people into leadership positions because the system itself will dictate how they perform.

 

Socialism might be a good way to start the changes that need be made.

[Marblehead]

American way, truth, justice, all in the same sentence, without irony? I mean are you seriously serious?

I wanted to speak to this but didn't have the balls.

[zerostao]

American way, truth, justice, all in the same sentence, without irony? I mean are you seriously serious?

there is always irony. america is the luminescent beacon shining forth light to the rest of the world. pretty much has been since it's birth. seriously or playfully , it is what it is.

[zerostao]

 Quality withstanding.  this is my point. made in america by americans is the top standard. dispute this if you wish, i guess america made its way to the top of the food chain by accident or luck.

 

 The massive trauma will be coming your way shortly.

i am sure you wish. dont hold your breath.

 

Those that have lost well paying jobs in the middle sector have seen their lifestyles go down hill at a rapid rate.

since october 2008, after a couple of months to adjust, my lifestyle improved about 938% and each day it continues to improve.

 

The U.S. Is trillions in debt, there is no hope of ever paying off that debt and it's weight is crushing down on the productive.

your illusions run deep. america is kicking butt as it always does. does america owe you? in my neck of the woods we say mind your own bizness and you wont be minding mine. america is less in debt compared to gdp than almost any other country.

[zerostao]

No, the game is never over.  I just felt like complimenting Apech for a thread that brought about some really good discussions and may well continue to do so into infinity.

 

Afterall, the premise is:  Would you rather be governed by a Capitalist of Social form of dictatorship?

 

True that Y'all up in Appalachia don't get too much hastle from government as there are few resources for the wealthy to grab.

 

Even with the drones flying over government has so far been unable to find most of you folks.

appalachia is the richest area of diverse natural resources on the planet. the barrons have know all along. but we have hatfields and mccoys.  enter at your own risk

[Apech]

Banjo players don't sing.  (Well, rarely.)

 

 

then it will never end!

[Karl]

 

Quality withstanding. this is my point. made in america by americans is the top standard. dispute this if you wish, i guess america made its way to the top of the food chain by accident or luck.

 

The massive trauma will be coming your way shortly.

i am sure you wish. dont hold your breath.

 

Those that have lost well paying jobs in the middle sector have seen their lifestyles go down hill at a rapid rate.

since october 2008, after a couple of months to adjust, my lifestyle improved about 938% and each day it continues to improve.

 

The U.S. Is trillions in debt, there is no hope of ever paying off that debt and it's weight is crushing down on the productive.

your illusions run deep. america is kicking butt as it always does. does america owe you? in my neck of the woods we say mind your own bizness and you wont be minding mine. america is less in debt compared to gdp than almost any other country.

It made its way to the top by operating a free market for many years. It's been living on the legacy since the beginning of the 20th century. At one time everything that came out of the USA was top quality, but gradually it's protectionist policies, foreign policy and tax funded bailouts damaged its economy badly. In 1971 USA defaulted on its debt and forced the rest of the world to abandoned all attachment of fiat currency to hard metals ( even by then it was only a virtual gold standard).

 

I do not wish.

 

You are one, there are many. It depends where you are in the country and what job you do. Government money is pouring into places like California and into the tech sector. It's also into asset classes such as property and of course the Wall Street Casino. The problem here is that it is illusiory. What you have is malinvestment. No one can say where the malinvestment is until the tide goes out which it invariably does.

 

Ho yes indeed, who would argue that it is not a global problem ? The current figures don't bare out kicking butt. They suggest bubbles instead that the bubbles are beginning to deflate. Janet Yellen has been using 'banker speak' to attempt to keep markets running. She has been promising to raise interest rates because of the fantastic economy, but always there is some reason why it isn't going to happen. That can has been kicked down the road for a year. Same with Europe, UK and Japan. However it is your currency that is the reserve currency and it is your Fed that directs every other central bank.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Karl