Socialism does work

[Brian]

Karl Marx was specifically asked about the difference between communism and socialism. He explained that they switched from using the former to the latter when they arrived in Britain after being run off the Continent because "communism" had developed such a strong negative connotation. This pattern has been repeated many times -- often going in circles to reuse old terms after a few generations. The distinction is as meaningful as the difference between vanilla ice cream and French vanilla ice cream.

[Karl]

laisez faires having trade emabargo?? and other restrictions

this thread has it all

 

Which is why I am not a laissez faire capitalist out of ideology. I wouldn't trade with countries that pose a threat to my life. Those that openl threaten and attempt to attack I would strongly discourage, those who refused to accept and continue to aggress I would turn to glass. Don't mistake me for a libertarian, Neo liberal or Neo Con. Anyone who doesn't pose a threat and wishes to trade would be open to do so without tarrif or borders.

[zerostao]

yes that evil social security socialism crap!!

so the govt forced you to pay into this welfare system your entire working life

and congress just in october raided it of 150 billion $$ becoz a handful of republicans in texas

dont like it and remember there is not and never was a chance folks would actually collect a retirement

except a wealthy few anyways

just like a coal mining operation poisons the water and air of the locality so the masses can have their lights on

then after the coal has been dug and sold that company changes its name to another , the original no longer exists and abracadabra it no longer has to pay the pensions of its workers

this is capitalism in action

some pyramid scheme goes by the name social (in)security

and corporations allowed to reorganize in able to avoid the terms of their contracts

great system guys!! i feel all red white and blue now

i should start a company of my own and start cheating everyone else

inspiring stuff

Edited March 14, 2016 by zerostao

[Brian]

There is a difference between communism and socialism as a few in this thread don't seem to grasp.

 

Examples of socialism here in the USA;

 

Public streets and highways which includes the interstate system.

 

National parks and national forests.

 

Social Security.

 

Medicare and Medicaid.

 

The US military.

 

All other commons which include city parks, lakes and other places for public recreation.

 

Rivers.

 

Most state and local governments have public utilities.

 

Senator Ted Cruz is proposing selling off or returning public lands to the control of states. What if the Grand Canyon was sold to some private investor or corporation?

 

 

With the exception of maintaining a Navy, ralis, all the rest are unconstitutional. Easy way to make any of them constitutional if the people so desire, of course! It's built into the Constitution itself -- two ways, actually, in case the government ignores the will of the populace. Instead, the federal government just does whatever it feels will help it/them gain more power and it steals money from the working citizenry to pay for it.

 

Sad, really. And whitewashed by those in favor of bigger and ever more powerful central authority.

[zerostao]

z--for some reason my editor is not working

Edited March 14, 2016 by zerostao

[ralis]

With the exception of maintaining a Navy, ralis, all the rest are unconstitutional. Easy way to make any of them constitutional if the people so desire, of course! It's built into the Constitution itself -- two ways, actually, in case the government ignores the will of the populace. Instead, the federal government just does whatever it feels will help it/them gain more power and it steals money from the working citizenry to pay for it.

 

Sad, really. And whitewashed by those in favor of bigger and ever more powerful central authority.

 

You narrative must proceed from Scalia's ideology that the Constitution is a dead document.

[Karl]

Where did you learn to read? Brian twisted what I wrote by proceeding from an incorrect conclusion and you posit the same nonsense. Further, you state falsehoods out of thin air without one word that I stated that would back up your false narrative against me.

 

You have stated explicitly that you are a socialist with all that implies. You may not agree with my conclusions regarding socialism, but they remain my conclusions and apply to anyone who is a socialist. They either hate life, or are ignorant of the form of anti-life philosophy they support.

[Apech]

Which is why I am not a laissez faire capitalist out of ideology. I wouldn't trade with countries that pose a threat to my life. Those that openl threaten and attempt to attack I would strongly discourage, those who refused to accept and continue to aggress I would turn to glass. Don't mistake me for a libertarian, Neo liberal or Neo Con. Anyone who doesn't pose a threat and wishes to trade would be open to do so without tarrif or borders.

 

?

[Apech]

You have stated explicitly that you are a socialist with all that implies. You may not agree with my conclusions regarding socialism, but they remain my conclusions and apply to anyone who is a socialist. They either hate life, or are ignorant of the form of anti-life philosophy they support.

 

 

I don't hate life.

[zerostao]

taking care of the weak, vulnerable, sick, and old is hating life?

or allowing education is hating life?

Edited March 14, 2016 by zerostao

[ralis]

taking care of the weak, vulnerable, sick, and old is hating life?

or allowing education is hating life?

 

Excellent point!

[Karl]

yes that evil social security socialism crap!!

so the govt forced you to pay into this welfare system your entire working life

and congress just in october raided it of 150 billion $$ becoz a handful of republicans in texas

dont like it and remember there is not and never was a chance folks would actually collect a retirement

except a wealthy few anyways

just like a coal mining operation poisons the water and air of the locality so the masses can have their lights on

then after the coal has been dug and sold that company changes its name to another , the original no longer exists and abracadabra it no longer has to pay the pensions of its workers

this is capitalism in action

some pyramid scheme goes by the name social (in)security

and corporations allowed to reorganize in able to avoid the terms of their contracts

great system guys!! i feel all red white and blue now

i should start a company of my own and start cheating everyone else

inspiring stuff

 

Straw man. Don't you get tired of doing that ?

You don't have capitalism in the USA, you have socialism and fascism. That's what you vote for and that's what you got.

I've stated why it won't work and now you create the truism that it doesn't work.

Capitalism cannot work on its own as some kind of disembodied thing, it isn't a regime, it's simply voluntary free trade amongst consenting individuals who agree to abide by certain rules and codes of behaviour. It doesn't work by itself in isolation.

[Karl]

?

 

I would use the full force of any weaponry at my disposal and avoid casualties amongst the armed forces. That doesn't mean it's always necessary, but I would hesitate if it was.

[ralis]

You have stated explicitly that you are a socialist with all that implies. You may not agree with my conclusions regarding socialism, but they remain my conclusions and apply to anyone who is a socialist. They either hate life, or are ignorant of the form of anti-life philosophy they support.

 

Exactly where did I state that I am a socialist? Please quote. Hate life? Where in the hell do you obtain that from? Your online bullying does not belong here!

[ralis]

I would use the full force of any weaponry at my disposal and avoid casualties amongst the armed forces. That doesn't mean it's always necessary, but I would hesitate if it was.

 

With what? Ownership of firearms is strictly regulated in your country.

[zerostao]

Which is why I am not a laissez faire capitalist out of ideology. I wouldn't trade with countries that pose a threat to my life. Those that openl threaten and attempt to attack I would strongly discourage, those who refused to accept and continue to aggress I would turn to glass. Don't mistake me for a libertarian, Neo liberal or Neo Con. Anyone who doesn't pose a threat and wishes to trade would be open to do so without tarrif or borders.

karl is this you?

 

[Apech]

I would use the full force of any weaponry at my disposal and avoid casualties amongst the armed forces. That doesn't mean it's always necessary, but I would hesitate if it was.

 

What? - you'd nuke the middle east?

[ralis]

Karl Marx was specifically asked about the difference between communism and socialism. He explained that they switched from using the former to the latter when they arrived in Britain after being run off the Continent because "communism" had developed such a strong negative connotation. This pattern has been repeated many times -- often going in circles to reuse old terms after a few generations. The distinction is as meaningful as the difference between vanilla ice cream and French vanilla ice cream.

 

I am talking about how it is practiced as opposed to political theory. There are different degrees of socialism. Further, your insistence regarding the illegality of social programs here in the USA requires a comment or two. What if your beloved mountains that you have photographed and put in you personal forum were suddenly stripped of protection and clear cut? Just think about that!

[Karl]

taking care of the weak, vulnerable, sick, and old is hating life?

or allowing education is hating life?

 

Another straw man.

 

Socialism is anti-life. That it appears to do some kinds of good does not remove that label that it is inherently evil and it, and those who support it are the scourge of rational men everywhere.

 

[Brian]

You narrative must proceed from Scalia's ideology that the Constitution is a dead document.

No, my "narrative" (you use that word when faced with inconvenient facts, I've noticed) proceeds from actually reading the Constitution. And the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist & Anti-Federalist Papers, the transcripts of the Philadelphia Convention and the various ratifying conventions, etc.

 

I've counterpointed these by reading things like The Communist Manifesto & Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, Mao's little red book, etc.

 

I digest and absorb and I reflect on history and human nature as I analyze and synthesize. My conclusions are always in flux but they are rarely confined to any particular ideology or school of thought.

[Karl]

What? - you'd nuke the middle east?

 

If it was necessary.

[ralis]

Another straw man. Socialism is anti-life. That it appears to do some kinds of good does not remove that label that it is inherently evil and it, and those who support it are the scourge of rational men everywhere.

 

So this is how you respond to well intentioned persons here that state pertinent points of view, by acting that you are superior to all the peons that you look down on!

[Apech]

If it was necessary.

 

Don't ever stand for President will you.

[ralis]

No, my "narrative" (you use that word when faced with inconvenient facts, I've noticed) proceeds from actually reading the Constitution. And the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist & Anti-Federalist Papers, the transcripts of the Philadelphia Convention and the various ratifying conventions, etc.

 

I've counterpointed these by reading things like The Communist Manifesto & Das Kapital, Mein Kampf, Mao's little red book, etc.

 

I digest and absorb and I reflect on history and human nature as I analyze and synthesize. My conclusions are always in flux but they are rarely confined to any particular ideology or school of thought.

 

I am well educated and well read also. Further, you are not a lawyer or even a Constitutional scholar and therefor you base such on personal opinion. Moreover, there are many scholars that disagree with you.

[Brian]

I am talking about how it is practiced as opposed to political theory. There are different degrees of socialism. Further, your insistence regarding the illegality of social programs here in the USA requires a comment or two. What if your beloved mountains that you have photographed and put in you personal forum were suddenly stripped of protection and clear cut? Just think about that!

My! How binary and terrifying you strive to be.

 

 

We have lots of lands under private conservation right around me as well as many state-protected areas (which is consistent with both the US and NC Constitutions, BTW) -- in fact, one of my favorite mountains is Grandfather Mountain which, after decades of private ownership and operation as a tourist attraction by an evil capitalist was voluntarily converted into a state park, and it is still operating as a tourist attraction. The Federal government, on the other hand, simply seizes land and proclaims ownership (yes, they pay what they wish but there is nothing voluntary about it...)