So where is the kingdom?

[dawei]

Would you agree that this is how your quote relates to 'the kingdom' –  attainment of knowledge of the outer kingdom (oneness) leads to attainment of knowledge of the inner kingdom (Self-realisation) – or would you reformulate it?

 

"Attainment of knowledge" is not enough, IMO... even if one comes to know inner=outer, that is still just knowing.  There is a barrier at work (and you've described your understanding and how it reveals itself) which creates a divide, a dichotomy.  Knowing can be a barrier.  There are a few ways in how I think of it.

 

1. For most, this barrier starts off as simply a mirror and forms their understanding in terms of "I" (and collective selves reflected as life).    

 

2. For some, there is an intellectual/philosophical understanding that the barrier is not reflecting but dividing and 'something' is on the other side.  This separation is both intriguing and injurious.  But it tends to lead folks towards a 'search' or 'journey'.

 

3. For a few, the barrier starts to be translucent/transparent.  It could come in dreams or visions or as a 'knowing/feeling'.   

 

4. For a very few, the barrier no longer exists.  They 'realize' the Oneness aspect of the two sides in a way that the previous stages hinted at.

 

5. For even fewer, there never was a barrier.   I don't mean they skipped straight here but they break outside of the last barrier of 'time'.    

 

When I think of the 'Kingdom', I keep in mind the various ways it was mentioned: Kingdom of God; of Heaven; of Christ and God.   At times, it seems to suggest separation and thus one needs to attain or wait for its arrival... and at other times there are expressions which show it is beyond a literal location, person, or even time.  

 

The gospels, IMO, are too much like school children running around on the playground; they have little concept of the Kingdom outside of the Old Testament.  Law vs Grace spins their minds.  I personally prefer Paul's writings as he truly personifies 'I was blind but now I see'.   

 

Rom 14:17: for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

So now we have the 'Kingdom' as a reference to God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit... This should be a clue that it is not just a location, person, or time.   Reformed theology (which I was most attracted to back in the day) held to a more abstract than concrete approach; The kingdom is here now, and yet not here now.   I prefer to just focus on the former idea.

 

Two verses which always struck me profoundly are:

Col 1:27:  The mystery... Christ in You

Gal 2:20:  I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me

 

And I used to ponder:

How can Christ be "in you" now, when he is already dead?   and how can you be "crucified with Christ" when that is also a past event?

 

The key for me was to get outside of inserting 'time' when asking such questions.   That also got me past the idea that I was a part of the kingdom... which would suggest it is pieces of this and that.  It is not about material things but its light kind of manifests as such.    

 

Where is the kingdom?  Everywhere and nowhere.

[Tibetan_Ice]

It is very simple.

 

The kingdom is superimposed over top of this reality, like a 3D image.

 

But you don't see it because you rely on the senses.

 

The door to this dimension is inside you near the physical heart.

 

Once the door is open a very bright white light illuminates the 3D landscape.

 

The door's knob is turned with selfless love.

 

Once you open the door, you see other planes, other dimensions, right here, right now occupying the same space as the physical, outside you and inside you. Beings are standing there, watching. The pastel colored clouds, sky and light is a "dead" giveaway. You can't miss it.

 

You will never see this with the intellect. The intellect counters this display and calls you crazy, deluded.

 

But after many times of opening the door, you realize that you can't run or hide from it. The ego starts to shrivel up..

 

It is right here, right now and has probably been forever and ever, call it what you'd like...

 

It is so close that the second you start to search for it you've already missed it.

 

Edited July 23, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Nikolai1]

I like this description TI, but I also think that the landscape you describe starts to become less superimposed over mundane reality and actually starts to suffuse it with its light. The white light you speak of is so obviously illuminating everything...the waves on the lake, the light in people's eyes, the gorgeous fissures in the bark of the tree. When we gradually find the peace and love within, the reality without matches it. Reality becomes a kind of symbolic representation of he gorgeousness inside.

[Karl]

I like this description TI, but I also think that the landscape you describe starts to become less superimposed over mundane reality and actually starts to suffuse it with its light. The white light you speak of is so obviously illuminating everything...the waves on the lake, the light in people's eyes, the gorgeous fissures in the bark of the tree. When we gradually find the peace and love within, the reality without matches it. Reality becomes a kind of symbolic representation of he gorgeousness inside.

LOL mundane reality. You don't know reality or you would not say that :-)

 

You say "the gorgeous fissures" and so you hear the birdsong but are blind to the bird. The fissures are enough in and of themselves. Try not to add your mind stuff to them. It's like dripping perfume on a flower. :-)

Edited July 23, 2015 by Karl

[Apech]

LOL mundane reality. You don't know reality or you would not say that :-)

 

You say "the gorgeous fissures" and so you hear the birdsong but are blind to the bird. The fissures are enough in and of themselves. Try not to add your mind stuff to them. It's like dripping perfume on a flower. :-)

 

That's an interesting thing to say.

[Nikolai1]

LOL mundane reality. You don't know reality or you would not say that :-) 

The world changes in appearance.  What appeared everyday and mundane starts to take on a beauty that feels transcendent to behold.  In my experience it started with reflective things, particularly water.  This is what makes it feel like there is more light available...because refelctive things become more reflective.  The image in the water is the same as the object relfected.

 

Light and shade become more starkly contrasted.  The bark of the tree becomes astonishing in its deep exaggerated texture.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Nikolai1

[Karl]

The world changes in appearance.  What appeared everyday and mundane starts to take on a beauty that feels transcendent to behold.  In my experience it started with reflective things, particularly water.  This is what makes it feel like there is more light available...because refelctive things become more reflective.  The image in the water is the same as the object relfected.

 

Light and shade become more starkly contrasted.  The bark of the tree becomes astonishing in its deep exaggerated texture.

 

Separate them. Hold reality. The reality of mind created thought streams and the reality of concrete things in direct perception.

 

If you confuse one with the other then you miss what is. Let poetry describe how you feel, let reality describe how you are.

 

You are looking for emotional content in concrete form and it is unnecessary. It's possible to have both. Wander both into emotional poetic allegory and also see the reality of what is.

 

 

 

[Jeff]

The world changes in appearance.  What appeared everyday and mundane starts to take on a beauty that feels transcendent to behold.  In my experience it started with reflective things, particularly water.  This is what makes it feel like there is more light available...because refelctive things become more reflective.  The image in the water is the same as the object relfected.

 

Light and shade become more starkly contrasted.  The bark of the tree becomes astonishing in its deep exaggerated texture.

 

And this is just the beginning... Seeing expands to feeling, and then to being...

[Nikolai1]

And this is just the beginning... Seeing expands to feeling, and then to being...

I'd love it if you could elaborate on this?

 

Thanks

[Nikolai1]

Hi Karl

 

You are looking for emotional content in concrete form and it is unnecessary. It's possible to have both. Wander both into emotional poetic allegory and also see the reality of what is.

I'm simply describing the phenomenology of experience, as faithfully as I can. Nothing more.

[Apech]

Separate them. Hold reality. The reality of mind created thought streams and the reality of concrete things in direct perception. If you confuse one with the other then you miss what is. Let poetry describe how you feel, let reality describe how you are. You are looking for emotional content in concrete form and it is unnecessary. It's possible to have both. Wander both into emotional poetic allegory and also see the reality of what is.

 

 

Cor!

[Jeff]

I'd love it if you could elaborate on this?

 

Thanks

 

Thanks for the request, but i have posted on the topic many times and recently such posts seem to create a lot of drama.

 

If you are interested, just search for some of my past posts on stages or progression.

[Bindi]

It is very simple.

 

The kingdom is superimposed over top of this reality, like a 3D image.

 

But you don't see it because you rely on the senses.

 

The door to this dimension is inside you near the physical heart.

 

Once the door is open a very bright white light illuminates the 3D landscape.

 

The door's knob is turned with selfless love.

 

Once you open the door, you see other planes, other dimensions, right here, right now occupying the same space as the physical, outside you and inside you. Beings are standing there, watching. The pastel colored clouds, sky and light is a "dead" giveaway. You can't miss it.

 

You will never see this with the intellect. The intellect counters this display and calls you crazy, deluded.

 

But after many times of opening the door, you realize that you can't run or hide from it. The ego starts to shrivel up..

 

It is right here, right now and has probably been forever and ever, call it what you'd like...

 

It is so close that the second you start to search for it you've already missed it.

 

 

But my way (and Jesus agrees with me on this ) is more "seek and you will find".

 

I think it depends on the path you take as to whether seeking helps or hinders.

[rex]

Just a rhetorical question and observation:

 

Isn't the Kingdom within and without, transcendent and immanent and as Blake says 'Everything that lives is Holy'?

 

The poets' sensibilities are liberating and sanctifying - complete resignation and surrender to grim socially constructed reality is the way of Urizen.

[Karl]

Just a rhetorical question and observation:

 

Isn't the Kingdom within and without, transcendent and immanent and as Blake says 'Everything that lives is Holy'?

 

The poets' sensibilities are liberating and sanctifying - complete resignation and surrender to grim socially constructed reality is the way of Urizen.

 

William Blake bless you.

[Apech]

William Blake bless you.

 

Energy is pure delight.

[Brian]

 

Energy is pure delight.

..he who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence?

[Apech]

..he who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence?

 

 

 

 

What is it men in women do require?

The lineaments of Gratified Desire.

What is it women do in men require?

The lineaments of Gratified Desire.

 

The look of love alarms

Because 'tis fill'd with fire;

But the look of soft deceit

Shall Win the lover's hire.

 

Soft Deceit & Idleness,

These are Beauty's sweetest dress.

 

He who binds to himself a joy

Doth the winged life destroy;

But he who kisses the joy as it flies

Lives in Eternity's sunrise.

[Tibetan_Ice]

But my way (and Jesus agrees with me on this ) is more "seek and you will find".

 

I think it depends on the path you take as to whether seeking helps or hinders.

“Knock, And He'll open the door

Vanish, And He'll make you shine like the sun

Fall, And He'll raise you to the heavens

Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.”

― Rumi

[Fate]

As door metaphors come, I've always preferred Rabia the Mystic.

 

"How long will you keep knocking on an open door?"

 

As far as Zen and Taoist metaphors go: one passes through the gate, only to turn around and see that it was never there

[Bindi]

"Attainment of knowledge" is not enough, IMO... even if one comes to know inner=outer, that is still just knowing.  There is a barrier at work (and you've described your understanding and how it reveals itself) which creates a divide, a dichotomy.  Knowing can be a barrier.  There are a few ways in how I think of it.

 

1. For most, this barrier starts off as simply a mirror and forms their understanding in terms of "I" (and collective selves reflected as life).    

 

2. For some, there is an intellectual/philosophical understanding that the barrier is not reflecting but dividing and 'something' is on the other side.  This separation is both intriguing and injurious.  But it tends to lead folks towards a 'search' or 'journey'.

 

3. For a few, the barrier starts to be translucent/transparent.  It could come in dreams or visions or as a 'knowing/feeling'.   

 

4. For a very few, the barrier no longer exists.  They 'realize' the Oneness aspect of the two sides in a way that the previous stages hinted at.

 

5. For even fewer, there never was a barrier.   I don't mean they skipped straight here but they break outside of the last barrier of 'time'.    

 

When I think of the 'Kingdom', I keep in mind the various ways it was mentioned: Kingdom of God; of Heaven; of Christ and God.   At times, it seems to suggest separation and thus one needs to attain or wait for its arrival... and at other times there are expressions which show it is beyond a literal location, person, or even time.  

 

The gospels, IMO, are too much like school children running around on the playground; they have little concept of the Kingdom outside of the Old Testament.  Law vs Grace spins their minds.  I personally prefer Paul's writings as he truly personifies 'I was blind but now I see'.   

 

Rom 14:17: for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

So now we have the 'Kingdom' as a reference to God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit... This should be a clue that it is not just a location, person, or time.   Reformed theology (which I was most attracted to back in the day) held to a more abstract than concrete approach; The kingdom is here now, and yet not here now.   I prefer to just focus on the former idea.

 

Two verses which always struck me profoundly are:

Col 1:27:  The mystery... Christ in You

Gal 2:20:  I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me

 

And I used to ponder:

How can Christ be "in you" now, when he is already dead?   and how can you be "crucified with Christ" when that is also a past event?

 

The key for me was to get outside of inserting 'time' when asking such questions.   That also got me past the idea that I was a part of the kingdom... which would suggest it is pieces of this and that.  It is not about material things but its light kind of manifests as such.    

 

Where is the kingdom?  Everywhere and nowhere.

 

I don’t recall coming across the concept of moving beyond time in spiritual literature before (which isn't to say it isn't there), but perhaps because this thought had been put in my mind after reading your post, I did see a reference to beyond time and space while reading about Taoist dream practice:

 

The practices developed by the ancient Taoists around dream state were designed to tap into the inexhaustible reservoir of possibilities that transcending time and space offers.

 

http://www.highexistence.com/topic/the-foundations-of-taoist-dream-practices/

 

You talk about entering ‘the kingdom’ by “break[ing] outside of the last barrier of 'time'”, I wonder if you could expound on this idea a bit further, for me right now the idea is a bit like falling down the rabbit hole, I don't even know the right question to ask...yet

[3bob]

Bindi, you may want to try a concept along the lines of all time, and all space, all at once, thus in such a sense there is no-where where "God" as creation is not at, at any time... or the "One" thing which is also the limit of all mind or the mind of Christ if you will, as a working between Alfa and Omega or the first and the last.  Beyond that - mind in its totality can not reach, yet if not for "no-thing" that is beyond mind there would be nothing.  (but I think that is really getting ahead of the game for 99.9999% of us)

Edited July 27, 2015 by 3bob

[Nungali]

Energy is pure delight.

 

 

Nah ...  

 

Ware, nor of good nor ill, what aim hath act?

Without its climax, death, what savour hath

Life? an impeccable machine, exact

He paces an inane and pointless path

To glut brute appetites, his sole content

How tedious were he fit to comprehend

Himself! More, this our noble element

Of fire in nature, love in spirit, unkenned

Life hath no spring, no axle, and no end.

 

His body a bloody-ruby radiant

With noble passion, sun-souled Lucifer

Swept through the dawn colossal, swift aslant

On Eden's imbecile perimeter.

He blessed nonentity with every curse

And spiced with sorrow the dull soul of sense,

Breathed life into the sterile universe,

With Love and Knowledge drove out innocence

The Key of Joy is disobedience. 

[Apech]

Nah ...  

 

Ware, nor of good nor ill, what aim hath act?

Without its climax, death, what savour hath

Life? an impeccable machine, exact

He paces an inane and pointless path

To glut brute appetites, his sole content

How tedious were he fit to comprehend

Himself! More, this our noble element

Of fire in nature, love in spirit, unkenned

Life hath no spring, no axle, and no end.

 

His body a bloody-ruby radiant

With noble passion, sun-souled Lucifer

Swept through the dawn colossal, swift aslant

On Eden's imbecile perimeter.

He blessed nonentity with every curse

And spiced with sorrow the dull soul of sense,

Breathed life into the sterile universe,

With Love and Knowledge drove out innocence

The Key of Joy is disobedience. 

 

da great beast huh?

[Nungali]

Yeah ... I felt like being naughty .