Bearded Dragon Posted July 23, 2015 Consciousness is not a thing. It was never created. If it was never created it will never die. Tell me again how matter comes first. Hmm? You're getting confused between consciousness and the experience that is generated through consciousness. The experience of consciousness is rendered in the brain and retained as a memory which will perish upon death. What I think you're saying is that without the brain experiencing something then consciousness does not exist. That's a fallacy. It's more like consciousness never does anything without the human mentality to express itself through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Consciousness is not a thing. It was never created. If it was never created it will never die. Tell me again how matter comes first. Hmm? You're getting confused between consciousness and the experience that is generated through consciousness. The experience of consciousness is rendered in the brain and retained as a memory which will perish upon death. What I think you're saying is that without the brain experiencing something then consciousness does not exist. That's a fallacy. It's more like consciousness never does anything without the human mentality to express itself through. You will die, I assure you that one day that will happen. When it does you will lose consciousness of the world. The end. However whilst your corpse rots the universe will continue to exist because it's the universe. There will be no heaven, no joining some grand clump of consciousness or any floating around the halls. You will be dead in body, mind and spirit. Enjoy today because there is no other. You should know that, so that you know. The universe was not created and consciousness was not created. There is no dispute. Consciousness exists within the boundaries of the body as gravity exists within the mass of a star. Gravity was not created either. We can say every atom contains the seed of gravity, then each particle, then each sub particle until only pure state energy remains and we search but we find no gravity hidden in anything. The brain is the mechanics, consciousness is the perceiver. The body dies and the perceiver is gone. Yet beyond that dead body there are many alive bodies all containing the power of perception filtered through their minds. Edited July 23, 2015 by Karl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 23, 2015 You will die, I assure you that one day that will happen. When it does you will lose consciousness of the world. The end. However whilst your corpse rots the universe will continue to exist because it's the universe. There will be no heaven, no joining some grand clump of consciousness or any floating around the halls. You will be dead in body, mind and spirit. Enjoy today because there is no other. You should know that, so that you know. The universe was not created and consciousness was not created. There is no dispute. Consciousness exists within the boundaries of the body as gravity exists within the mass of a star. Gravity was not created either. We can say every atom contains the seed of gravity, then each particle, then each sub particle until only pure state energy remains and we search but we find no gravity hidden in anything. The brain is the mechanics, consciousness is the perceiver. The body dies and the perceiver is gone. Yet beyond that dead body there are many alive bodies all containing the power of perception filtered through their minds. Very interesting set of beliefs you have there. Thanks for sharing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted July 23, 2015 I don't think. I know. That's the difference. You state you "know" Religion is Bogus. It is both bogus and of substance - it has real utility as an energy field for many - and when they have reached a certain point it is of no utility what so ever. Your supposed knowing is identified with itself - knowing in polarity is not knowing - it is simply certainty. It is a very strong level of being stuck - however high that stuck ness may be. I make no defense for religion here - and biblical quotes humor me - particularly when they are of the sort "Jesus" said this or that - but in the large scope of things religion is not bogus - if you were to take only the purified elitist arguement - then having a body is bogus - it is only an interim and bogus illusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted July 23, 2015 There in lies the dilemma. I define it as creator of all. By logical deduction there isn't a creator. I've read Aquinas who got pretty close to creating a valid argument, it's pretty good, but hides a fallacy that is very hard to spot. I'm also unimpressed with those who reason God does not exist because 'well he just doesn't'. The conclusion must be reached by logical deduction otherwise it's just another form mysticism and might as well be regarded as an alternative belief system. I shall wander through your list. First one is by Thomas Aquinas - not surprisingly it came first and goes " there is no case know ( neither is it indeed possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for it would be prior to itself which is impossible." As it stands it is a mixed hypothetical argument denying the consequent and is valid when applied to 'things' in the universe, but not true of the universe. However the universe contains ALL things, it isn't a thing within itself or we get Russian dolls. It posits causality as the existence of the creator. So, now apply Aquinas argument to God. :-) God cannot then be a cause of himself and prior to himself, so there must be a creator of God and so on and so on. There's something to those Russian dolls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted July 23, 2015 There's something to those Russian dolls. Yep, aliens .... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted July 23, 2015 You state you "know" Religion is Bogus. It is both bogus and of substance - it has real utility as an energy field for many - and when they have reached a certain point it is of no utility what so ever. Your supposed knowing is identified with itself - knowing in polarity is not knowing - it is simply certainty. It is a very strong level of being stuck - however high that stuck ness may be. I make no defense for religion here - and biblical quotes humor me - particularly when they are of the sort "Jesus" said this or that - but in the large scope of things religion is not bogus - if you were to take only the purified elitist arguement - then having a body is bogus - it is only an interim and bogus illusion. Not sure I used the word 'bogus'. Religion is fine for the religious. The beginning of a religion is very hard to get at. So much is built on to the core it would be impossible to state that it was-in your terms-bogus. There is also plenty about religion that is positive and has been through the ages. Some of the finest scholars, philosophers and scientists came from religious groups so I'm not about to throw the baby out with tha bath water. There are many moral teachings which are very important. Certainty if you want, I won't quibble over semantics. I'm happy to be stuck :-) I have no idea what your term implies for you, but if you ascribe that characteristic to self as I am, then stuck it shall be. I don't think I have a term that fits, but as I won't be going anywhere else, then stuck seems fair. No idea what you mean in the final paragraph it sound a bit pseudo intellectual. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted July 23, 2015 Yep, aliens .... Haha, is that Mulder's face on Pete from Family Guy's body? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
