Mixing Practices

[Cameron]

Max told me that the ultimate goal of Kunlun is for enlightenment or to awaken you. To go back to the source and realize the divine self. There are a lot of other benefits before that, like good health. If you combine Kunlun with the Red Phoenix Max said that you can eventually attain a golden dragon body which is the highest state a Daoist can attain. Max said that none of his Kunlun or Maoshan teachers had been able to do this but when he combined the two practices (Kunlun and Red Phoenix) he discovered that one could attain the golden dragon body. Craig

 

Craig..I definetly plan on asking Max about this in Phoenix..

 

But...umm...did you happen to hear him say exactly what attaining "Dragon Body" means?

 

I mean he sort of explained it to me but still sort of left me drooling and feeling like I got dropped off in the secret prequal to the prequal to the prequal of Star Wars that George Lucas hasn't had time to make yet

[portcraig]

Cameron, Max has told me a few things about the Golden Dragon body. He told me that it is the highest state a Daoist can attain and is the highest evolution you can do in a physicalized form. In Chinese mythology they are know as the Wu Dragons. They were the Daoists that basically transmuted their body into a higher or finer state of energy. Max discovered by combining the Kunlun and Red Phoenix practices in a certain way that one could achieve it. Craig

Edited October 24, 2007 by portcraig

[rain]

wu dragons do what kind of practise? Qigong? MA? just king gong and meditation?

[Oolong Rabbit]

Several feet & ankle suggestions that might not help at all.

 

Lately I've been experimenting mostly with my foot roller, but I've done the same thing with ankle rotations. Bottom line: Occasionally do them for longer (at moderate pressure), until the whole foot / ankle is warm. I mean feeling physically warm. It'll feel supple at the point, too. Then maybe more regularly for shorter sets. I feel that these are good warm-ups (before/after/aside) to assist the earth part of the kunlun practice. (Also what I've said about relaxing~opening the sole during.)

 

 

Thanks for the advice Trunk. Can you explain how the foot roller pulls the energy down? I have been implementing your spread toe method as well. I liken it to Tiger's Mouth in the foot .

[Yue]

Just curious: Is it safe to learn kunlun from the book, or do I need to go to a seminar? Because I don't see Max coming to Missouri and I don't have any way to travel other than driving.

[Trunk]

.. explain how the foot roller pulls the energy down?

Here's a pdf on the acupoint Kidney-1 (link removed) from A Manual of Acupuncture on CD (link). Should give you a good start. (I'll remove the link/pdf in a few days.)

[Sunya]

The thrusting vessel is one of the Eight Extraordinary Vessels, distinct from the more commonly known Twelve Meridians.

 

The Thrusting Vessel runs along the inside of the spine, from the tailbone to the top of the inside of the brain, and down to the roof of the mouth. The Thrusting Vessel is mirrored by the more commonly known Governing Vessel, which runs from the perinium, up the outside of the spine, and over the top of the head to the upper lip.

 

To explain further requires a knowledge of the way the Microcosmic orbit works. Essentially the Water path is the same as the Fire path, which is used in the ordinary Microcosmic orbit. The difference is that the Water Path sends Chi up the Thrusting Vessel instead of up the Governing Vessel. This is done because the Jing collected in the lower Dan Tien will start to follow the Chi up the spine over time until it reaches the brain (specifically the Upper Dan Tien). This is considered preferable because the Sacrum and bones of the skull are said to "thrust" spinal fluid and Chi into the brain cavity nourishing the nervous tissue along the way. Essentially you are taking advantage of a natural phenomenon in order to bring the Jing to the Upper Dan Tien. There the Jing pools and collects, mixing with the Chi that it's been following, and alchemically the two transform into pure Shen. At that point the Shen can be gathered and used to achieve enlightenment or immortality.

 

Again, for me this is all theory, though. I have yet to achieve any of these methods successfully in my personal practice. For real instruction, you need someone who has been there. If you find this person, let me know.

 

ah thank you for explaining that... i wasn't aware that there was two routes in the back. i thought that the fire path used the spine itself.. that's how i've been practicing my microcosmic orbit. what would be the advantage of using the outside of the spine instead of the inside?

[Mal]

She also said that people underestimate what practices such as tai chi are doing for them, and chase these other methods. FWIW My tai chi did feel somewhat unbalanced tonight.

 

I have noticed I have been less motivated to practice Tai Chi recently. But I go throught phases where I practice a lot of Tai Chi and then not that often. I try to go with how I feel.

 

Anyone have any ideas about a less than 1 hour Kunlun posture requiring less than 20 min cool down?

 

CLOSE DOWN SHOULD BE EQUAL LENGTH TO HOWEVER LONG KUNLUN PRACTICE IS.

 

I'm inclined to agree. I think one hour was too much for me at the start and caused a weird effect. I have changed to doing 10~20min of the opening and then 20min of the closing. I am not getting huge results like others but I am enjoying myself

 

Perhaps 20min is enough once you get use to it But I'm feeling that the "siting still" is the most important part.

[Sahaj Nath]

Just curious: Is it safe to learn kunlun from the book, or do I need to go to a seminar? Because I don't see Max coming to Missouri and I don't have any way to travel other than driving.

 

yes, it's safe. just read through kunlun posts that have already been written. any corrections that max would offer in person have already been expressed on this site.

[SFJane]

Hey folks, been reading your posts and seeing what you guys are chatting about in this thread.

 

One thing I would like to mention about my practice of the water method, is that the method itself, how you actually go about moving energy in the body is what is water like.

 

FWIW, I work with with MCO/SHO all the time. It is not really a big deal.

 

The MCO done with reverse breathing, feeling, sound and visualization, intensely with 200% focus is an exceptionally potent practice. So is doing really any spinal work

 

Go to any website on bipolar disorder, or schizo affective disorder/schizophrenia and delusions. Take a good look at every symptom of episodic mania. Mental illness is a real and present danger in meditation and you can create meditation psychosis very easily if you do these practice excessively and without controls like draining and centering etc. One very quick and easy way to give yourself a dose of meditation psychosis is to pretty much do anything that involves raising, circulating, spiraling, condensing chi or abstract patterns like geometry in the brain. It is certainly doable. But the tolerance level of the brain is...delicate. Doing these things at random is not good. Doing kundulini and practicing heavy upper dan tien practices led me to both fantastic psychic experiences as well as straight up psychosis and voices, uncontrollable deja vu and echoes.

 

It took me several years to learn to unscrew my brain and mental energy and most of that, no, ALL of that stability I owe to inner dissolving. The practice of downward inner dissolving is taught first because it really is exactly what it says it is in the book. Working downward on the central channel will build a strong safe reservoir of stable and calm chi. Once I had inner and outer dissolving down, I spent thousands of hours practicing dissolving while sitting. In time I basically healed my own self of what I had done to it years earlier.

 

pretty much the royal road to screwing up your chi gung practices is probably to mix practices until you have really got one of them solidly down.

 

there is two important things to consider.

 

One is, you want to find the various channels, meridians and vessels on your own by directly experiencing them with your mind. Find them on your own to verify their existence. Once you are sure you have found a channel, a meridian, an energy gate or what have you, spend time, days if you must, just letting it tell you what it's status is. Soon enough you will note whether energy is moving, stagnating or changing.

 

That is part of the method. Deliberately finding your energy anatomy unambiguously and knowing what state or direction your chi is flowing on it's own, without interference from you.

 

The second important thing to do, is to learn what stable chi really is. To be honest, unless you got out and get yourself hurt in martial arts practice, by doing manual labor in a dangerous environment, practicing extreme sports, it may be initially very difficult to tell inside yourself where calm chi is disturbed chi is. The basic signs are, calm chi is not noticeable and disturbed chi feels messed up. Somehow something *ain't* right. That something may or may not be chi, or some effect that chi is causing.

 

If you meditate by inner and outer dissolving and sinking into your lower dan tien, you will be using a time tested method for strengthening all your meditation muscles and internal flows in the least unsafe and most productive manner you can do unsupervised. You probably will not mess yourself up much if you alway remember to bring everything down at the end of every practice. Let all that energy drop down into your dan tien and keep directing it there, even you think you have done it. Do it for longer than you did upper dan tien stuff, just to be on the safe side.

 

This stuff does work which is why I make these cautions. I would not recommend mixing practices of any kind until,

A, you can absolutely sink your chi. First and foremost, learn to put out the fire.

 

B, find all those meridians on your own so you are not relying on visualizing them in your mind's eye, nor looking them up in a chart. Find them by feeling them. Look for them, knowing our elders found them before we did.

 

C, learn how much is too much chi practice. That was, is trial and error for most, it is hard to get really involved with advanced meditation, unless, you are willing to take risks and chances and one of those risks is going to be circulating energy in your brain more than you know you are doing until it is too late. Again, therein is the genius of inner and outer dissolving is that if you feel your mind or head has too much pressure, you commence dissolving down and fix it yourself.

 

If you can not sense what is too much, you will underestimate and that is when you are sticking the proverbial finger into the proverbial fire and waiting for it to be burned in order to experience a burn, so it is unmistakable in the future.

 

If you can do all 3 for sure, then by all means mess around with kunlun or MCO and see what happens! It is fun stuff

Edited October 25, 2007 by SFJane

[Sahaj Nath]

Kunlun really loads up my head with energy. All day yesterday my head felt like it was full of compressed energy. Not a bad feeling really, just a slight pressure and slight tingling sensation on the top of my scalp. I had this happen before while practicing the microcosmic circulation and pulling jing up my spine. Lasted for almost 2 weeks then subsided. I am trying to guide it down to my dantien, but obviously a lot is getting stuck. Is anyone else experiencing this? Does Red Phoenix help? should I leave the energy there? If enough is pumped in will it force the crown or third eye open? I am really quite new to these practices, and a couple years ago I would have said it was BS but I am experiencing some very real phenomena.

 

are you holding your tongue up to your palate? if not, start. that's one of the most important missing pieces that made max's lesson so irresponsible, in my opinion. the tongue and the perineum solidify the ren and du channels into one complete circuit. the energy in your head can actually drain through your tongue and return to the lower tantien. if there's a lot of energy to be drained, you'll even feel that tingling sensation in your tongue as well as your teeth.

 

IMO, red phoenix would only worsen the condition. it can induce dizziness, nausea, vomiting, headaches, the fight-or-flight response, and a number of borderline symptoms.

 

you certainly don't want to force the 3rd eye or the crown to open, but especially not the crown.

[Cameron]

I have to agree about RP..but after Chris last post about Max almost shifting into Dragon Body in SF I am glad he taught it.

 

I mean..I am hoping Max is going to be with us for awhile but if he is planning on "checking out" anytime soon than better to be disoriented for a few weeks and learn the practice than never get it your whole life.

 

Yeah..it's weird..but hey..look at the world..maybe some of us need something like this to balance ourselves.

 

I don't know.

[Sahaj Nath]

welcome, jane!

 

glad to have you around!

 

=)

 

 

i've watched your youtube videos and admired you from afar. some of the subtleties in your motions suggest that you've got some real experience. and your unassuming approach is refreshing.

 

if you don't mind:

 

explain to me how MCO factors into the philosophy of the water method? especially the reverse breathing, which i considered to be quintessentially a fire practice.

 

i think i still have a lot to learn on this subject.

[SFJane]

Also I made this video not long ago more designed for *advanced* meditators, but really more advanced than simply starting the path of meditation. Most of you guys from what I am reading would find this a fun workout. One that you can do as fast or as slow as you want.

 

This video I describe in just over ten minutes, a truly mixed practice. Dropping and Raising energy along the central channel and some stages. I think you will agree that it is subtle to the uninitiated. This practice would be a good training practice for multi directional orbit circulations on the surface because those meridians are the echoes of the central channel anyway.

 

You do not need to do the SHO in order to progress at IMA, meditation or chi/nie gung. This is true. However, these circulations are inherent in the practice and they are done in the water method as well. I do them.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rpe1a2lcvo

 

The practice here is both ascending and descending, heavenly and earthly. The SHO should be operating smoothly on it's own without your interference in the slightest, if you raise your skull, lift your occiput, let your belly out to relax omni directionally, and sit straight. This is the best way to apprehend the SHO on your own time.

 

There is really only three reasons to get really involved with the SHO, IMO, and I stress it is my opinion. You have a problem in your energy anatomy or in your body somewhere, like a problem in your back. You do SHO to open up energy there. Give it a helping hand.

 

Another reason, increased energy. If you do the SHO, you will get stronger no doubt about it. If you do it right, you get stronger without going crazy, an added bonus.

 

The third reason, curiosity. You, like myself, are becoming a chi gung engineer and it is out of academic interest or a need to know what it is all about and how you go about doing it right or wrong. All three of those reasons have compelled me. So ask yourself too, why are you messing with circulations or mixing them. Exactly what is the goal. Be honest with yourself. Nothing wrong with simple naked curiosity

Edited October 25, 2007 by SFJane

[SFJane]

welcome, jane!

 

 

if you don't mind:

 

explain to me how MCO factors into the philosophy of the water method? especially the reverse breathing, which i considered to be quintessentially a fire practice.

 

i think i still have a lot to learn on this subject.

 

Hey there! Thanks for having me. I am actually pleased to find you guys really. I did not think anyone gave a bleep about this stuff but me. I know that's myopic but that is what happens when you spend a lot of time in solitude

 

Ok it's getting late for me so this will be all for tonight.

 

I guess I can break that up into 3 components.

 

1, the MCO

2, reverse breathing

3 the philosophy of the water method.

 

The reason you see it as quintessentially fire practice probably has no small reason to do with the fact that several books and teachers on both the west and east coast identify the MCO when performed with reverse breathing to be a fire practice.

 

What you might consider is this. The MCO exists on it's own naturally and it sort of doing it's own thing whether or not you are paying attention to it. Intellectually knowing this will not do much for you though.

 

reverse breathing also exists naturally in both the pre born baby and the post birth individual when exerting. Like say you are helping all your mates push the car to the side of the road after it got a flat or overheated or something. You are breathing one way up until the second that you put your arms on the car and everyone starts pushing at once, then your belly is sticking out even though you are blowing air out your mouth. You do it without even thinking about it, hence it is natural, but you tend to only do it during strenuous or straining activities. You notice you sometimes do it unconsciously if you do tai chi push hands the second you uproot someone a little. You may notice that you do reverse breathing during sex sometimes! You really do not notice it, it happens naturally but with imminent strain involved in some way.

 

This sense of straining is pushing and going all out to get a release or an effort is what makes this practice fire. If you imagine your mind is a magnifying lens and you are focusing your chi like a laser, like a lens and you literally burn your mind into your governing and conception vessels while powerfully reverse breathing and doing this with a strong sense of intensity like a reactor lighting up. That is quintessential fire path. You are fusing energy with your mind exactly the way you will it. You make it happen. You will get hot. Your face may get red. Your hair may stand up and crackle if you do it long enough. You sweat.

 

Reverse breathing and MCO are done in Water Method without any incongruity and without creating a force 5 chi shockwave through the local space time, well unless... never mind.

 

The way they are done is congruent to the act of conscious letting go, relaxing, striving without tension, focusing by coalescing or congealing. Instead of burning your chi along the MCO in a laser light like fashion, you sort of trickle through your MCO like a single raindrop running very slowly down the bridge of your nose. you focus not like a laser but like condensation on glass.

 

The reverse breathing can be made to happen consciously but if so should be done without strain of any kind.

 

If done correctly by allowing the MCO to occur and sort of being present like a will o wisp, there but not exerting any more effort than what is needed to stay present in that circulation. Needless to say that it is suggested that one learn the inner and outer and dissolving process in order to safely experience the MCO and because practicing the inner dissolving will teach how to be gentle and attentive and present without overdoing it. The method prepares you so that when you get to MCO, you can make it cool and clear. Stimulating yet relaxing. Energizing without heating. No sweating, no red face. Only a sense of smooth circulation like a micro CCTV inside a tiny ball bearing rolling effortlessly through a magnetic track. Like water running off a leaf.

 

So in the water method you can and do use circulations and ascending currents, hopefully after you have spend enough time doing downward inner dissolving so that you should not feel powerful or grandiose after the MCO, if you do, if you perform the MCO and feel intense and radioactive you are doing it in an appropriately fire path manner, that is the symptoms you are doing it right. Like a photon of the sun is rolling through your meridians.

 

In the water method you mostly should not notice the MCO and when you do it intentionally it will feel more amoebic and cooler.

Edited October 25, 2007 by SFJane

[SFJane]

One last thing before bed, mainly for Hundun.

 

You seem interested in Taoist Fire Path stuff and the MCO I would like to mention that the MCO is actually 1 of traditionally 9 separate circulations that comprise the entirety of the MCO practice. Each circulation takes you through one of the 8 bodies and connects them. The practices are done in circulations smaller and deeper inside, as well as outside the body.

 

Each circulation picks up energy from one range and takes it inward or outward along the same channels. This is done in both directions.

 

The theory and practice is much like overlapping bowls or spheres and you fill one sphere and it spills into the next only to fill up and spill into the sphere holding it. That is also how you do the vessels as well.

Edited October 25, 2007 by SFJane

[minkus]

Hellow SFjane, its a pleasure seeing you on this board as it was watching your informational video's on youtube for a while allready.

 

Great info on the watermethod btw.

 

Ill drop by later once its more quit here at work

 

Cheers !

[Mantra68]

Mr. Hundun has become such a big fan of Kunlun in my absence. Now he can readily answer all questions for you. I wouldn't be surprised if he is even teaching it. In his mind, I'm sure he knows more about the subject than Max ever could.

 

"they smile in your face..." There's that song again.

 

Just like I called it.

 

Here is the reality: Hundun has no idea of why Max is teaching the way he is, what this practice can really do nor how to apply the energy, and he has absolutely NO IDEA of who Max really is.

 

He missed it.

 

 

I left this forum to allow things to develop and as I suspected Hundun has become an expert proponent of Kunlun. He has "softened" his view of Max and myself because we "are actually really nice people" (and out of the picture).

 

His flash judgments of Max and all of us only served to present HIMSELF as an authority so that he could assume the role of teacher. I personally am not going to let him get away with it.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a difference of opinion is one thing. Kunlun is not for everyone and Max is not for everyone but this is a completely different beast.

 

Those of you who might say that I shouldn't be bothered by these type of people do not understand the kind of damage they are capable of. It is very important to make people aware.

 

Anyone who tells you they WANT to become a "teacher," as Hundun has, is to be avoided.

 

As to the title of this discussion:

 

Those who want to mix other practices with Kunlun: you are on your own.

 

Why practice the "flowers" when you have the root? Kunlun will give you everything you want.

 

Those who want to mix Kunlun with drugs (after being told not to): you are on your own.

 

We are not using reverse psychology here. If you want to "self-discover" the reasons why we say this, you may not like the result.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hey folks, been reading your posts and seeing what you guys are chatting about in this thread.

 

One thing I would like to mention about my practice of the water method, is that the method itself, how you actually go about moving energy in the body is what is water like.

 

FWIW, I work with with MCO/SHO all the time. It is not really a big deal.

 

The MCO done with reverse breathing, feeling, sound and visualization, intensely with 200% focus is an exceptionally potent practice. So is doing really any spinal work

 

Go to any website on bipolar disorder, or schizo affective disorder/schizophrenia and delusions. Take a good look at every symptom of episodic mania. Mental illness is a real and present danger in meditation and you can create meditation psychosis very easily if you do these practice excessively and without controls like draining and centering etc. One very quick and easy way to give yourself a dose of meditation psychosis is to pretty much do anything that involves raising, circulating, spiraling, condensing chi or abstract patterns like geometry in the brain. It is certainly doable. But the tolerance level of the brain is...delicate. Doing these things at random is not good. Doing kundulini and practicing heavy upper dan tien practices led me to both fantastic psychic experiences as well as straight up psychosis and voices, uncontrollable deja vu and echoes.

 

It took me several years to learn to unscrew my brain and mental energy and most of that, no, ALL of that stability I owe to inner dissolving. The practice of downward inner dissolving is taught first because it really is exactly what it says it is in the book. Working downward on the central channel will build a strong safe reservoir of stable and calm chi. Once I had inner and outer dissolving down, I spent thousands of hours practicing dissolving while sitting. In time I basically healed my own self of what I had done to it years earlier.

 

pretty much the royal road to screwing up your chi gung practices is probably to mix practices until you have really got one of them solidly down.

 

there is two important things to consider.

 

One is, you want to find the various channels, meridians and vessels on your own by directly experiencing them with your mind. Find them on your own to verify their existence. Once you are sure you have found a channel, a meridian, an energy gate or what have you, spend time, days if you must, just letting it tell you what it's status is. Soon enough you will note whether energy is moving, stagnating or changing.

 

That is part of the method. Deliberately finding your energy anatomy unambiguously and knowing what state or direction your chi is flowing on it's own, without interference from you.

 

The second important thing to do, is to learn what stable chi really is. To be honest, unless you got out and get yourself hurt in martial arts practice, by doing manual labor in a dangerous environment, practicing extreme sports, it may be initially very difficult to tell inside yourself where calm chi is disturbed chi is. The basic signs are, calm chi is not noticeable and disturbed chi feels messed up. Somehow something *ain't* right. That something may or may not be chi, or some effect that chi is causing.

 

If you meditate by inner and outer dissolving and sinking into your lower dan tien, you will be using a time tested method for strengthening all your meditation muscles and internal flows in the least unsafe and most productive manner you can do unsupervised. You probably will not mess yourself up much if you alway remember to bring everything down at the end of every practice. Let all that energy drop down into your dan tien and keep directing it there, even you think you have done it. Do it for longer than you did upper dan tien stuff, just to be on the safe side.

 

This stuff does work which is why I make these cautions. I would not recommend mixing practices of any kind until,

A, you can absolutely sink your chi. First and foremost, learn to put out the fire.

 

B, find all those meridians on your own so you are not relying on visualizing them in your mind's eye, nor looking them up in a chart. Find them by feeling them. Look for them, knowing our elders found them before we did.

 

C, learn how much is too much chi practice. That was, is trial and error for most, it is hard to get really involved with advanced meditation, unless, you are willing to take risks and chances and one of those risks is going to be circulating energy in your brain more than you know you are doing until it is too late. Again, therein is the genius of inner and outer dissolving is that if you feel your mind or head has too much pressure, you commence dissolving down and fix it yourself.

 

If you can not sense what is too much, you will underestimate and that is when you are sticking the proverbial finger into the proverbial fire and waiting for it to be burned in order to experience a burn, so it is unmistakable in the future.

 

If you can do all 3 for sure, then by all means mess around with kunlun or MCO and see what happens! It is fun stuff

 

Hi Jane!

 

Thank you for sharing this information and your experiences with us. It seems you already have a bit of a closet following here :-). This is really great stuff, and I am starting to get motivated to dive into back into the other BK Frantzis books.

[Sahaj Nath]

Mr. Hundun has become such a big fan of Kunlun in my absence. Now he can readily answer all questions for you. I wouldn't be surprised if he is even teaching it. In his mind, I'm sure he knows more about the subject than Max ever could.

 

"they smile in your face..." There's that song again.

 

Just like I called it.

 

Here is the reality: Hundun has no idea of why Max is teaching the way he is, what this practice can really do nor how to apply the energy, and he has absolutely NO IDEA of who Max really is.

 

He missed it.

I left this forum to allow things to develop and as I suspected Hundun has become an expert proponent of Kunlun. He has "softened" his view of Max and myself because we "are actually really nice people" (and out of the picture).

 

His flash judgments of Max and all of us only served to present HIMSELF as an authority so that he could assume the role of teacher. I personally am not going to let him get away with it.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a difference of opinion is one thing. Kunlun is not for everyone and Max is not for everyone but this is a completely different beast.

 

Those of you who might say that I shouldn't be bothered by these type of people do not understand the kind of damage they are capable of. It is very important to make people aware.

 

Anyone who tells you they WANT to become a "teacher," as Hundun has, is to be avoided.

 

As to the title of this discussion:

 

Those who want to mix other practices with Kunlun: you are on your own.

 

Why practice the "flowers" when you have the root? Kunlun will give you everything you want.

 

Those who want to mix Kunlun with drugs (after being told not to): you are on your own.

 

We are not using reverse psychology here. If you want to "self-discover" the reasons why we say this, you may not like the result.

 

 

um... i don't practice the kunlun method. just stated that in a couple of PM's. and i stated to you (this is the 3rd time now) that i didn't attend the seminar for the kunlun method. i went for max. and i was sorely disappointed. that hasn't changed.

 

and i wasn't the only one felt the way i did about the seminar; i was just the only one who stepped up and said something. and i figured it wasn't going to make me too many friends, but it might spare at least a few people the disappointment of traveling hundreds or thousands of miles to see him.

 

i really don't want want to fight about this. things were feeling good around here again.

 

 

i know tips about safe practice. i know a ton of practices that are similar to red phoenix and how to avoid complications (like the tongue, or NOT PRACTICING THEM).

 

so i guess your statement after the fact that you wished you and i could have talked more was just a show for the audience. before you came in with this (dare i say, EGO-driven) attack, i was ready for the possibility of a dialog with you.

 

look at post #2 in my SF kunlun thread:

 

"are the techniques effective? yes. they can be. but moreso than any other system? no."

 

again, that wasn't my point.

 

 

i think you would do your teacher and your mission a great service if you'd start showing a little more of that enlightened wisdom & compassion you've been cultivating over the last SIX YEARS at a rate of 100 YEARS PER HOUR.

 

i'm not the one making an ass of myself here.

[Mantra68]

Just keeping you in check there buddy.

[Trunk]

Mr. Hundun ...

Uh, Chris?, heads up:

Explore practices and share experience & views is what we do here, all of us.

It's the whole purpose of TTB's existence.

[Mantra68]

Uh, Chris?, heads up:

Explore practices and share experience & views is what we do here, all of us.

It's the whole purpose of TTB's existence.

Understood. Accurate information is important.

 

Opinion is fine but speaking as an authority when you are not, is unacceptable.

[Yoda]

Chris takes off and it's all Lord of the Flies around here!

[lino]

Could Kunlun be mixed with stuff from the local Vitamin Shoppe or GNC?

 

Like 5-HTP, omega-3, or melatonin? or maybe with a milder nootropic like brainquicken?

 

Mr. Hundun has become such a big fan of Kunlun in my absence. Now he can readily answer all questions for you. I wouldn't be surprised if he is even teaching it. In his mind, I'm sure he knows more about the subject than Max ever could.

 

"they smile in your face..." There's that song again.

 

Just like I called it.

 

Here is the reality: Hundun has no idea of why Max is teaching the way he is, what this practice can really do nor how to apply the energy, and he has absolutely NO IDEA of who Max really is.

 

He missed it.

I left this forum to allow things to develop and as I suspected Hundun has become an expert proponent of Kunlun. He has "softened" his view of Max and myself because we "are actually really nice people" (and out of the picture).

 

His flash judgments of Max and all of us only served to present HIMSELF as an authority so that he could assume the role of teacher. I personally am not going to let him get away with it.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a difference of opinion is one thing. Kunlun is not for everyone and Max is not for everyone but this is a completely different beast.

 

Those of you who might say that I shouldn't be bothered by these type of people do not understand the kind of damage they are capable of. It is very important to make people aware.

 

Anyone who tells you they WANT to become a "teacher," as Hundun has, is to be avoided.

 

As to the title of this discussion:

 

Those who want to mix other practices with Kunlun: you are on your own.

 

Why practice the "flowers" when you have the root? Kunlun will give you everything you want.

 

Those who want to mix Kunlun with drugs (after being told not to): you are on your own.

 

We are not using reverse psychology here. If you want to "self-discover" the reasons why we say this, you may not like the result.