Temple style Taiji Quan

[dwai]

Didn't notice this before. I think Temple Style Taiji is different enough from the other family styles that it warrants its own topic

 

Grandmaster - Waysun Liao

 

There are several advanced teachers trained by Master Liao primarily in the US

 

Some key features of temple style taiji include -

 

• single form practice
  • This in turn involves following stages -
    • Beginner - physical form and breath work. Long form first section is put together.
    • intermediate - energetic awareness and movements initiated via the mind (yi) - feel the qi, flow the qi and five-styles stepping and condensing breathing. Long form second and third section..put it all together.
    • Advanced - flow the qi and follow the qi. At this stage the movements happen via sensing the energy flow and following it, as opposed to making the movements happen with mind intent. Condensing breathing 
• standing meditation
  • These are various standing forms. They are often based on the single forms, but with different focus. For instance, stand in upward and downward form (freeze the physical) and move only the energy (neigong and daogong) 
• Two-person practice
  • This involves standard taijiquan two person drills such as single hands push, hands attaching, four forms, moving four forms, Ta Lu etc
  • Free-flowing rolling hands - fixed and moving step
  • Neutralization
  • Methods of practices "methods of inward and outward, separate and diffuse, swallow and spit"
  • Making chance to applying the 8 energies
  • Fajin practice
  • Free-style fighting (san shou) 
• Seated meditations
  • specific sequence of seated meditations - neigong sets that different approach to condensing breathing to develop Jin and connecting with Dao (Dao gong) 
• Auxiliary
  • Weapons forms - Long sword, Broadsword,Staff and Spear

[Samoobramba]

Waysun Liao studied also with Cheng Man Ching. The Temple style Tai Chi has a significant input from that.

[GreytoWhite]

After doing some research it seems that this style of taijiquan is powered by White Crane mechanics. The swallow and spit part of the curriculum kinda gave it away. I checked and Liao Weishan was one of the few who brought Fujian Shaking Crane to Taiwan. It's a fairly common thing for groups in Taiwan to use a White Crane engine to power their taiji frame. It is quite different from the other taiji styles.

[dwai]

Waysun Liao studied also with Cheng Man Ching. The Temple style Tai Chi has a significant input from that.

No master Liao did not study under Cheng man Ching. He and Prof Cheng were friends and played chess together.

[dwai]

After doing some research it seems that this style of taijiquan is powered by White Crane mechanics. The swallow and spit part of the curriculum kinda gave it away. I checked and Liao Weishan was one of the few who brought Fujian Shaking Crane to Taiwan. It's a fairly common thing for groups in Taiwan to use a White Crane engine to power their taiji frame. It is quite different from the other taiji styles.

 

No there is no element of white crane in temple style although there are vested interests who spread rumors like this. Temple style is authentic Taijiquan. It's focus is beyond martial arts, it is about cultivation and practical daoist internal alchemy.

 

And "Swallow and spit" is a advanced-intermediate part of taijiquan. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by dwai

[GreytoWhite]

Dude, dwai, spit/swallow is Southern Chinese martial philosophy - right there, right there. That terminology doesn't exist in Northern Chinese arts that taijiquan falls under. Taiji has its own terminology that has some parallels. I've had the fortunate circumstance of becoming exposed to a wide variety of arts and White Crane is one of those Southern hard/soft styles that is highly respected and very internal at times. I don't mean to say that it's a bad thing that the taiji from Master Liao is mixed with White Crane.

 

That Master Liao started off teaching people White Crane early on is a fairly well known thing, multiple long time and respected martial artists have documented it, and the evidence is right there in the taiji curriculum terminology you provided. When I watch someone perform the Temple set I'm often struck by just how different it is from the Chen large frame and Wu small frame I've learned. Wang Xiangzhai threw some White Crane into the mix when he made Yiquan, it's no big deal really. Every practitioner mixes his or her own experience in - I've got a bit of aikido, Chen village and Practical Method, Wu taiji, Escrima, and wing chun in my xingyibaguazhang. It's not a bad meal, just mixed ingredients that sometimes clash if the proportions are off.

[dwai]

Dude, dwai, spit/swallow is Southern Chinese martial philosophy - right there, right there. That terminology doesn't exist in Northern Chinese arts that taijiquan falls under. Taiji has its own terminology that has some parallels. I've had the fortunate circumstance of becoming exposed to a wide variety of arts and White Crane is one of those Southern hard/soft styles that is highly respected and very internal at times. I don't mean to say that it's a bad thing that the taiji from Master Liao is mixed with White Crane.

 

That Master Liao started off teaching people White Crane early on is a fairly well known thing, multiple long time and respected martial artists have documented it, and the evidence is right there in the taiji curriculum terminology you provided. When I watch someone perform the Temple set I'm often struck by just how different it is from the Chen large frame and Wu small frame I've learned. Wang Xiangzhai threw some White Crane into the mix when he made Yiquan, it's no big deal really. Every practitioner mixes his or her own experience in - I've got a bit of aikido, Chen village and Practical Method, Wu taiji, Escrima, and wing chun in my xingyibaguazhang. It's not a bad meal, just mixed ingredients that sometimes clash if the proportions are off.

Only one source I know of who claims Master Liao taught White Crane is in a blog by Marnix Wells. There were rumors about Bruce Frantzis alluding to Master Liao as a energy-crazy taiwanese white crane guy but Bruce himself on his blog has commended Master Liao's book T'ai Ch'i Classics and suggested that he uses it as a reference material.

 

I'm not saying White Crane is bad. I'm saying, being an insider to Temple Style Tai Chi for almost 15 years now, I have often asked my Teachers whether Master Liao did White Crane and they always say "No". So it is a matter of Master Liao's words (and those of his direct students) against those who don't have any direct relation with him. It becomes insulting to continue to claim that way. Usually people who claimed this tend to do it to discredit Temple Style and Master Liao. While I don't want to participate in such exercises in stupidity (of arguing with such people), I do find it reasonable to point out what I have done here.

 

Go to my personal page and see how we do Temple Style - both single form practice as well as long form (which is very similar to CMC long form). I have videos of single form practice, long form practice and push hands. I've seen white crane being practiced and what we do is nothing like White Crane

 

"Swallow and Spit", "Separate and diffuse" etc are traditional taiji concepts. They are not "forms or techniques" but strategies in application. 

[GreytoWhite]

Bruce Kumar Frantzis also talks about some of the Crane stuff from Liao Weishan. That doesn't discredit his experience with taiji. Asking other people who are just as committed about the official style party line gets you the same results... big surprise.   What don't you understand about swallow and spit having nothing to do with taiji? Wearing blinders is one thing but cripes man. These are the four primary Southern style arts concepts. 

 

Pu (float)
Tim (sink)
Tun (swallow)
Toh (spit)

 

Taiji has the eight powers, five elements/steps, and a few other things dependent on the lineage. The concepts do have some crossover when broken down at an extremely high level. Simply enough - swallow and spit are SOUTHERN CHINESE concepts and have nothing to do with taiji. Also the similarity to Chen Manqing's 37 was probably due to Liao Weishan's personal dislike of the guy. 

[dwai]

Bruce Kumar Frantzis also talks about some of the Crane stuff from Liao Weishan. That doesn't discredit his experience with taiji. Asking other people who are just as committed about the official style party line gets you the same results... big surprise.   What don't you understand about swallow and spit having nothing to do with taiji? Wearing blinders is one thing but cripes man. These are the four primary Southern style arts concepts. 

 

Pu (float)

Tim (sink)

Tun (swallow)

Toh (spit)

 

Taiji has the eight powers, five elements/steps, and a few other things dependent on the lineage. The concepts do have some crossover when broken down at an extremely high level. Simply enough - swallow and spit are SOUTHERN CHINESE concepts and have nothing to do with taiji. Also the similarity to Chen Manqing's 37 was probably due to Liao Weishan's personal dislike of the guy. 

Hi GreyToWhite,

 

Master Liao has himself stated that Cheng Man Ching was his personal and close friend. He was there when Prof. Cheng

passed away. He was given Prof Cheng's personal notes at that time (none of his students got that). 

 

No, I understand totally that the techniques "tu" and "Tun" are southern chinese. That doesn't mean there is no "swallow and spit" or "separate and diffuse" or "methods of inward and outward" in Taijiquan. Like I said, these are strategies that we use in two-person and combat situations. And of course we train in the 13 (8 energies and 5 directions). 

 

Sink and float are also present in Taijiquan - they are jins and can be applied practically. Concepts like Hwa, Bii Jin, etc are also in Taiji. However, they are also present in Wing Chun. I think we should not get caught up on terminology too much. I can only say that I don't find any White crane elements in Temple Style. I have also trained Goju Ryu (which was the first martial art I learnt). There are elements of White Crane in Goju Ryu however. 

Edited January 5, 2016 by dwai

[fabie]

plus the Temple Style Tai Chi Chuan practiced were based from monastic teachings from the Taiwan temples that were direct descendants of Taoist and Wudang Taoist Temples when mainland China went haywire during the expulsion and purging of the temples in different warring times and communist take over.  Taiwan (and other islands and vicinities including other Chinese territories and South East Asian countries such as The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia...) were known havens and refuge of old taoist teachings.

Not many people alone know that many types of KUNG FUs even existed and thrived in the various neighboring countries that were already rendered obsolete or non-existent even in Mainland China -   such as the Ngo Go Kor (I believe that's the name)...and various ones like this:

http://www.konghankungfu.com/historyofngochokun.html

And also hidden taoist temples in the Philippines unseen from China since their expungement.  I am sure there are many others in surrounding countries that thrived and obviously TAIWAN (source of where GM Waysun Liao was born) is also where the taoist temple and monastery where he grew up and learned Temple Style Tai Chi.

Within the mountains of 7,500 islands of the Philippines alone, I have encountered an article about an old taoist sect there (if I find it, I will post it here).  China alone isn't the only source of the tai chi and taoism, they have thrived and furthered their ever-evolving faith, practices and lifestyle - and that includes kung fu and tai chi.

Temple Style is such...an old visage from the old Wudang culture.

Edited July 19, 2017 by fabie
corrections and addendum

[fabie]

On 1/4/2016 at 9:37 AM, GreytoWhite said:

Dude, dwai, spit/swallow is Southern Chinese martial philosophy - right there, right there. That terminology doesn't exist in Northern Chinese arts that taijiquan falls under. Taiji has its own terminology that has some parallels. I've had the fortunate circumstance of becoming exposed to a wide variety of arts and White Crane is one of those Southern hard/soft styles that is highly respected and very internal at times. I don't mean to say that it's a bad thing that the taiji from Master Liao is mixed with White Crane.

 

That Master Liao started off teaching people White Crane early on is a fairly well known thing, multiple long time and respected martial artists have documented it, and the evidence is right there in the taiji curriculum terminology you provided. When I watch someone perform the Temple set I'm often struck by just how different it is from the Chen large frame and Wu small frame I've learned. Wang Xiangzhai threw some White Crane into the mix when he made Yiquan, it's no big deal really. Every practitioner mixes his or her own experience in - I've got a bit of aikido, Chen village and Practical Method, Wu taiji, Escrima, and wing chun in my xingyibaguazhang. It's not a bad meal, just mixed ingredients that sometimes clash if the proportions are off.

SPIT/SWALLOW is a universal concept in martial arts...heck we have different names of it in our FMA (I practiced Filipino Martial Arts) before I went to Temple Style Tai Chi 20 years ago.  All of these are just names and so don't get stuck with names and philosophies.

Fighting is fighting and many philosophies about and within it ARE TRANSLATEABLE and can be transcended.  What differs Temple Style Tai Chi from most others is that we don't get stuck with the LONG FORM practice and really it is about the internal cultivation of energy from Chi Kung to Tao Kung (Nei Kung).  Heck, even the same terminology used within the tai chi circles have different implications and different meanings to it!

Such as JIN or JING.  

Simply put, it is an ART and it is not a finite thing...one simply does not learn it as simple as disseminating an ABC CONCEPT that can easily be rationalized and intellectualized, in fact it is impossible!  The actual energy transmissions are learned from meditations and not technique-based.

And so to further the argument, the same FORM and MOVEMENT have different energetic, nuance and subtleties even within the Temple Style alone (let alone with other styles of tai chi).  A Ward Off form for example can be used as a physical forms but have MANY ways to use it and not just as a traditional PENG function...it can be used as a ROLL BACK and even as a healing form!

[Wu Ming Jen]

I am all about Temple style I know it is authentic it is only when certain people try to graft on without an actual linage or permission it goes south fast IMO.

 

Spit and swallow should be in all systems of Tai Chi Chuan.

 

The technique of ward off and roll back work together build up the resistance pretend to have resistance and follow the force by taking it away (roll back is moving force backwards and down, can look like anything) and allowing it to go where it is intended, we just disappear it is really just fooling someone . that's good chess.

 

Cheng Man Ching was also friend to my Master Jou Tsung Hwa one of my fist teachers and I learned the form along with Chen, Yang and Wu. I just stuck with Yang and the short form (Cheng Man Ching) in the beginning.

[fabie]

On 7/19/2017 at 2:39 PM, Wu Ming Jen said:

I am all about Temple style I know it is authentic it is only when certain people try to graft on without an actual linage or permission it goes south fast IMO.

 

Spit and swallow should be in all systems of Tai Chi Chuan.

 

The technique of ward off and roll back work together build up the resistance pretend to have resistance and follow the force by taking it away (roll back is moving force backwards and down, can look like anything) and allowing it to go where it is intended, we just disappear it is really just fooling someone . that's good chess.

 

Cheng Man Ching was also friend to my Master Jou Tsung Hwa one of my fist teachers and I learned the form along with Chen, Yang and Wu. I just stuck with Yang and the short form (Cheng Man Ching) in the beginning.

 

 

 

IT IS already and again it is in all martial arts system!  Spit and Swallow is nothing but a figurative term to describe FA (emission) and SWALLOW (to absorb or roll back or neutralize).  THere are countless ways to do the SPIT AND SWALLOW.  It is as universal as a strike or neutralization.

THere are physical, energetic and spiritual implications of the Spit and Swallow and many systems (heck even within the same system) and boils down to personal achievements and consciousness likewise. 

It is funny that the western world mostly would look at the surface as in TERMS AND PHRASEOLOGY whilst the words alone were taken or interpreted literally from Chinese phraseology or even from classic Chinese transcripts or manuscripts.  Heck, even the everyday and typical Chinese couldn't understand these ancient treasures without consulting from scholars, professors and the actual head of the movements - LET ALONE WESTERNERS DEBATING ABOUT THE PHRASEOLOGY.

This can be seen also with Americans debating about the bible wherein the bible were originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic...later translated to Greek, Coptic, or even Latin BEFORE it was translated to Anglican or English texts.

Simply put, if one has to study the internal martial arts - one has to understand that in the beginning, it is an ART (and science) that leads to deeper and more profound understanding philosophically, energetically and even spiritually.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Open and close let's find as many words we can for spit and swallow, yin and yang, ward off, rollback, dragon tiger  condense explode.......your turn. 

 

America, greece, china, india looking at the surface of each other. All these waves I couldn't see what is under the surface so I stopped the wind and shut off the sun.

[Franklin]

 

did anyone every get the name of the temple that master Liao trained in in Taiwan?

 

just curious..

(i live in taiwan)

 

 

 

Franklin

[dwai]

8 hours ago, Franklin said:

 

did anyone every get the name of the temple that master Liao trained in in Taiwan?

 

just curious..

(i live in taiwan)

 

 

 

Franklin

AFAIK he trained with a wandering Daoist monk. The style is how they trained in temples...

[Longtimepractioner]

I hate to jump in here and burst someone's bubble, but the use of "Temple Style" Tai Chi is somewhat of a misnomer.  I spent 5 years with Waysun Liao and two of his senior students in the mid 1970"s.  I also don't want to spread a lot of names around, so I'll just give you two of his senior student's initials:  DM and RH.  RH unfortunately passed away due to Lukemia just a few years age, but DM is semi-retired (he only teaches privately) but is still very active - he usually practices about 6 hours a day. 

 

DM lucked out and found some Chen people in the early 1990's and, with his talent, has become a very formidable Chen practioner.  Many who have met him call him a master, but he personally makes no claims.

 

The third of Waysun's former senior student's initials are MM.  I don't know if he is still active.

 

But my reference here is about "Temple Stye".  The correct term should be "Temple Style Training".  Liao's actual style is a variation of Yang style, heavily influenced by Vibrating Crane, which is also an Internal style.  Waysun never revealed the name or location of the temple where he studied but he did not seem to have any religious connection to the temple - it was merely a place where he was taught and practiced, much as anyone else might practice in a park or at a gym.

 

Waysun started using the term "Temple" somewhere around 1977 because many other schools of Chinese martial arts were referring to temples in their training styles (i.e. "Shaolin Temple", "Wu Dang Temple", etc.).  He thought it was a good business practice, and it was.

 

Liao's training method is quite different that most that I've seen over the years.  Instead of teaching a form through the "follow me" method, he breaks his form down into individual movements that are strung together once the student has gained some competency in the individual movements.  This means that it may take a student two or more years to learn the "short" form, but a good student will find considerable meaning in a form taught this way.

 

And yes, I mentioned Vibrating Crane.  Waysun mentioned Vibrating Crane to his senior students on a few rare occasions in the 1970's, but never elaborated on it.  Whatever style he initially learned is really of no matter though.  He is truly an Internal master.

 

And while Waysun Liao is very good, there are others that are better.  I have met Chen Xiao Wong!

[Wells]

29 minutes ago, Longtimepractioner said:

And while Waysun Liao is very good, there are others that are better.  I have met Chen Xiao Wong!

 

Do you mean this person?

 

 

[Taiji Bum]

I'm a big fan of Waysun Liao and very happy that we have a high level student of his here. Thanks for posting this, dwai.

[dwai]

3 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

I hate to jump in here and burst someone's bubble, but the use of "Temple Style" Tai Chi is somewhat of a misnomer.  I spent 5 years with Waysun Liao and two of his senior students in the mid 1970"s.  I also don't want to spread a lot of names around, so I'll just give you two of his senior student's initials:  DM and RH.  RH unfortunately passed away due to Lukemia just a few years age, but DM is semi-retired (he only teaches privately) but is still very active - he usually practices about 6 hours a day. 

 

DM lucked out and found some Chen people in the early 1990's and, with his talent, has become a very formidable Chen practioner.  Many who have met him call him a master, but he personally makes no claims.

 

The third of Waysun's former senior student's initials are MM.  I don't know if he is still active.

 

But my reference here is about "Temple Stye".  The correct term should be "Temple Style Training".  Liao's actual style is a variation of Yang style, heavily influenced by Vibrating Crane, which is also an Internal style.  Waysun never revealed the name or location of the temple where he studied but he did not seem to have any religious connection to the temple - it was merely a place where he was taught and practiced, much as anyone else might practice in a park or at a gym.

 

Waysun started using the term "Temple" somewhere around 1977 because many other schools of Chinese martial arts were referring to temples in their training styles (i.e. "Shaolin Temple", "Wu Dang Temple", etc.).  He thought it was a good business practice, and it was.

 

Liao's training method is quite different that most that I've seen over the years.  Instead of teaching a form through the "follow me" method, he breaks his form down into individual movements that are strung together once the student has gained some competency in the individual movements.  This means that it may take a student two or more years to learn the "short" form, but a good student will find considerable meaning in a form taught this way.

 

And yes, I mentioned Vibrating Crane.  Waysun mentioned Vibrating Crane to his senior students on a few rare occasions in the 1970's, but never elaborated on it.  Whatever style he initially learned is really of no matter though.  He is truly an Internal master.

 

And while Waysun Liao is very good, there are others that are better.  I have met Chen Xiao Wong!

Very interesting. 

 

My teacher is JP who was there from the beginning (1973-74). He specifically told me that there is no white crane in what Master Liao taught.

 

I know RH, one of my practice partners (and now Master JP's student along with me and my brothers) was RH's student.  I think I know of DM. MM i'm not sure of. There were others too, like KP and so on. 

 

When was the last time you met Master Liao btw? 

[dwai]

30 minutes ago, Taiji Bum said:

I'm a big fan of Waysun Liao and very happy that we have a high level student of his here. Thanks for posting this, dwai.

Who? Where?

[Longtimepractioner]

dwai -

 

I haven't seen Waysun since about 1980.  I moved away from the Chicago area long ago.

 

I was, and I guess I can say I still am, one of DM's students.  I just saw him yesterday, and I asked him to verify the Vibrating Crane story.  He laughed, but he said he heard it straight from the master's mouth while sitting in Waysun's office.  For a number of years, DM took private lessons from Waysun on Saturdays, and was probably the best student that Waysun had.  He ran a school for Waysun in Skokie, IL;  RH ran a school on Devon Avenue in Chicago, and I think JP ran a group in Madison Wisconsin for a while, which means that JP and I have met, though he may have only seen me as one of RH's students.  I was a student of RH, but he had some personal problems and ended up in a Monastery in Taiwan for a while (under the tutelage of a monk names Fa Su).  Eventually, many of RH's students ended up with DM.

 

And please understand, I liked RH very much, and he seemed to like me, but he was a very problematic person and could be quite volatile at times.  This fact, along with his great skill as a martial artist, got him in trouble often.  He liked to hang around with bikers.

 

RH ended up in Florida, and he seemed to have become a calmer and more peaceful person in his last years.  I think some of his students still carry on in the Fort Lauderdale area.

 

JP may never have heard Waysun mention Vibrating Crane, as Waysun has always been very secretive about the specifics of his background..  I don't think the specifics matter because if you've ever had the opportunity to test Waysun, you've found out that he is very powerful.  Once a person has achieved a high level of internal power, it doesn't matter where they learned it.

 

And incidentally, DM has achieved a very high level of ability.  About ten years ago, DM was challenged by a guy from mainland China who claimed to be a three time Chinese National champion of full contact Wu Dang style (whatever that is).  DM quickly dumped the guy on his ass.  As often happens, the guy claimed he wasn't ready, so DM waited, asked the guy if he was ready, and when he said he was, DM dumped him on his ass again.  The guy tried a third time with DM putting him in a headlock with his face toward the floor.  The guy ended up leaving, along with another supposed Wu Dang master who sponsored him, with his tail between his legs.

 

I've been practicing consistently for 45 years, so I guess I have a lot of stories to tell.  Over that span of time. I have become a good friend of DM.  And, as I said in an earlier post, he makes no claims.  He looks like a very unassuming 68 year old man, and he's hard to find (he finally gave up his landline phone this past year).  But be careful if you want to challenge him.

[dwai]

2 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

dwai -

 

I haven't seen Waysun since about 1980.  I moved away from the Chicago area long ago.

A lot has changed since then. Including liao’s skills too. I’ve heard tales of events that transpired in the 80s and 90s from JP. It’s not right to compare his skills from pre-1980 to CZW. 

Quote

 

I was, and I guess I can say I still am, one of DM's students.  I just saw him yesterday, and I asked him to verify the Vibrating Crane story.  He laughed, but he said he heard it straight from the master's mouth while sitting in Waysun's office.  For a number of years, DM took private lessons from Waysun on Saturdays, and was probably the best student that Waysun had.  He ran a school for Waysun in Skokie, IL;  RH ran a school on Devon Avenue in Chicago, and I think JP ran a group in Madison Wisconsin for a while, which means that JP and I have met, though he may have only seen me as one of RH's students.  I was a student of RH, but he had some personal problems and ended up in a Monastery in Taiwan for a while (under the tutelage of a monk names Fa Su).  Eventually, many of RH's students ended up with DM.

Fair enough. I’ll ask JP again when I meet him next time.

 

JP wasn’t in Wisconsin back then. He ran a school in Chicago too - Northwest Taiji Academy (and so turns out that he started with ML  in 1972). He talks of RH often with fond memories from the old days. 

Quote

And please understand, I liked RH very much, and he seemed to like me, but he was a very problematic person and could be quite volatile at times.  This fact, along with his great skill as a martial artist, got him in trouble often.  He liked to hang around with bikers.

 

RH ended up in Florida, and he seemed to have become a calmer and more peaceful person in his last years.  I think some of his students still carry on in the Fort Lauderdale area.

Yes on all accounts. His students in Ft Lauderdale are a nice bunch (met two of them and a third one now practices with us).

 

Quote

JP may never have heard Waysun mention Vibrating Crane, as Waysun has always been very secretive about the specifics of his background..  I don't think the specifics matter because if you've ever had the opportunity to test Waysun, you've found out that he is very powerful.  Once a person has achieved a high level of internal power, it doesn't matter where they learned it.

 

Agreed on that point. Personally I don’t find WC stuff in what I’ve practiced. Maybe WL changed it. I’ve heard from Master JP and my teacher before him that  Master WL evolved from being extremely Martial oriented to more meditative and Dao focused.

Quote

And incidentally, DM has achieved a very high level of ability.  About ten years ago, DM was challenged by a guy from mainland China who claimed to be a three time Chinese National champion of full contact Wu Dang style (whatever that is).  DM quickly dumped the guy on his ass.  As often happens, the guy claimed he wasn't ready, so DM waited, asked the guy if he was ready, and when he said he was, DM dumped him on his ass again.  The guy tried a third time with DM putting him in a headlock with his face toward the floor.  The guy ended up leaving, along with another supposed Wu Dang master who sponsored him, with his tail between his legs.

Mhmm I think there’s an old YouTube video of his doing condensed power transfer. 

Quote

I've been practicing consistently for 45 years, so I guess I have a lot of stories to tell.  Over that span of time. I have become a good friend of DM.  And, as I said in an earlier post, he makes no claims.  He looks like a very unassuming 68 year old man, and he's hard to find (he finally gave up his landline phone this past year).  But be careful if you want to challenge him.

 

I think wise people quickly grow beyond challenges and fighting. Haha and having experienced JP’s power (2% only as he says), I’d say DM is probably also quite powerful. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by dwai

[Longtimepractioner]

"I think wise people quickly grow beyond challenges and fighting. Haha and having experienced JP’s power (2% only as he says), I’d say DM is probably also quite powerful.  "

 

Just to set the record straight - DM was challenged when these Chinese guys walked into his school, full of arrogance.  He had to respond then and there.  Their arrogance didn't last long. 

 

DM has been studying Chen  Tai Chi Chuan for over 25 years, and Yang style another 20 years before that. I was once at a seminar  with him when a bona fide  Chen master worked with him and told him he was "very good".  These masters ordinarily NEVER say anything like that.

 

Also, DM emphasizes the the art he teaches is called Tai Chi Chuan, and the martial art is an integral part.  If you leave it out, your art is woefully incomplete.

 

Over the years, we have met many who claim to teach "spiritual" Tai Chi, or, even worse, "exercise" Tai Chi.  I recently met a woman who comes from the exercise end of things, and I can only say that her tai chi, or whatever she thinks it is, is terrible.  Unfortunately, the public seems to consider that all Tai Chi is the same, and it certainly is not.

 

 

[dwai]

4 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

"I think wise people quickly grow beyond challenges and fighting. Haha and having experienced JP’s power (2% only as he says), I’d say DM is probably also quite powerful.  "

 

Just to set the record straight - DM was challenged when these Chinese guys walked into his school, full of arrogance.  He had to respond then and there.  Their arrogance didn't last long. 

Yeah I’ve heard many such stories about JP too. Green dragon society folks attacking him and getting knocked out...

4 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

DM has been studying Chen  Tai Chi Chuan for over 25 years, and Yang style another 20 years before that. I was once at a seminar  with him when a bona fide  Chen master worked with him and told him he was "very good".  These masters ordinarily NEVER say anything like that.

 

Very cool. 

4 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

Also, DM emphasizes the the art he teaches is called Tai Chi Chuan, and the martial art is an integral part.  If you leave it out, your art is woefully incomplete.

Master JP told me that it’s a gate. We have to cross it to get to the higher levels. 

 

4 hours ago, Longtimepractioner said:

Over the years, we have met many who claim to teach "spiritual" Tai Chi, or, even worse, "exercise" Tai Chi.  I recently met a woman who comes from the exercise end of things, and I can only say that her tai chi, or whatever she thinks it is, is terrible.  Unfortunately, the public seems to consider that all Tai Chi is the same, and it certainly is not.

 

 

 

Violence-minded people don’t normally evolve to a level where they can progress spiritually. Even if they do get insights, they end up getting pulled back down into the mud, so to speak.

 

But yes, there are charlatans abound. 

 

So what do you practice? Chen taiji I presume?