Kunlun system. What are your experiences with it? Positive or negative?

[Oneironaut]

I've been looking into the kunlun system. Just found out about it last night through this forum but I don't have a definitive answer as to how good, legitimate and effective it is. I found it because I made the decision to stop with the healing tao system as it is way too complicated and set up in a scholarly manner. It's actually off putting. I'm very pragmatic and drawn to simplicity and something more (doesn't have to be entirely effortless and practical. It seems like it's been a very long time since anyone has said anything about their journey in the kunlun system. For those who follow this system I have the following questions to ask:

 

How are your experiences? Positive? Negative?

 

With its very bold promises of being fast and super effective is the system legitimate?

[gendao]

There are a gazillion threads on it here...

 

It was immensely powerful, and I am still not entirely sure what all exactly it did? On a slightly more mundane level, it might trigger traumatic tension release through core shaking (like TRE). But, I think it does a whole lot more (spiritually & energetically) than that, too...

 

I would say you do need to complement it with a good holistic healing module, though. I wouldn't consider Kunlun to be a "magic bullet" complete system. It shakes a lot of stuff loose, and it's best to have supplementary methods to help clean it all up. People that couldn't adequately find these on their own, were the ones who ran into trouble...

 

Fact is, this technique is not for the faint of heart and is probably more on the level of Ayahuasca than weed, so to speak... And if you can't take that heat, then best to stay out of this kitchen.

Edited July 25, 2015 by gendao

[liminal_luke]

Kunlun is Max´s version of a practice he got from Sifu Jenny Lamb called Yi Gong. They are basically the same thing, but Max adds other practices (such as Red Phoenix) to make his "system." If you buy Jenny Lamb´s self healing dvd you get the basic Yi Gong practice plus warm up exercises to do before and energy integration exercises to do after.

 

If you decide to go with either presentation, I´d just concentrate on the practice itself. I´ve done it on and off, not for months on end, but have only had good experiences with it. There´s a lot of dramatic commentary pro and con but nothing compares with your own experience.

 

Liminal

Edited July 25, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Oneironaut]

I made up my mind about kunlun after much diligent research. It can go straight to hell and that Max guy can go along with it. I'll probably go with yigong instead. The teacher of that system is legit. I just want to know more about what it's like

[RiverSnake]

There is a barrier of experience with these kinds of arts. If you practice any system and feel a strong connection with it then i recommend you give it a 100 day trial of daily practice. See what experiences/results you have. Afterwards, if you feel its not for you, then go elsewhere.

[Aetherous]

The Kunlun system is mysterious.

 

Yigong taught by Jenny Lamb is essentially the same practice as the main Kunlun method...Jenny Lamb adds some qigong before and after it while perhaps makes it work better with the physical body...therefore that is the way I prefer to practice if I ever do. On the other hand, Max alters the way it's performed after a while to make it a more internal method, although the same thing is happening as a result of the hand posture.

 

The other methods taught in Kunlun also do very cool things. The Kunlun system is supposed to be mainly the red phoenix practice + the kunlun method, which combined results in the gold dragon body effect.

 

My personal opinion is that neither teacher, Max or Jenny, acts as an individual guide to you on your path, or represents a complete school. It's not like you're begin initiated into a Daoist lineage. One could say that Kunlun is a complete school of practices...there are many of them which Max put together after learning traditionally. But it isn't comparable to Buddhism for instance, with all of the philosophy ethics mind training etc. Kunlun is basically: learn how to do practices correctly, then have your own experience and figure everything out for yourself. Which is good and bad...I personally am in favor of having clear guidance.

 

Also, with a practice that opens you up to all things, like Kunlun method or yigong, that means you're potentially amplifying or attuning to both the good and the bad, rather than just cultivating the good. There are good effects that come from the practice, to be sure, such as self healing...and there are also effects that some might not like. For instance, one thing is that you can become aware of ghosts when you previously weren't. Not that it's the end of the world if you do, because it works to tell them to go away...but if people are looking for a practice that gives longevity and makes everything in life easy, there are some things that come with that. Even if it's just practicing yigong...it's the same method and same result.

[liminal_luke]

I made up my mind about kunlun after much diligent research. It can go straight to hell and that Max guy can go along with it. I'll probably go with yigong instead. The teacher of that system is legit. I just want to know more about what it's like

I totally get why someone might be more drawn to YiGong and Sifu Jenny Lamb´s presentation than Max´s Kunlun. If you do go ahead and learn Yigong though and you find it beneficial it might be good to remember that you probably never would of heard of the teaching without Max. It was Max´s charismatic and controversial style that put the practice on the map here at Taobums.

 

Liminal

Edited July 28, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Cheshire Cat]

There are quite a few energetic imbalances in the practices of the basic posture of kunlun: this is a good enough reason for not practicing it, imho.

[Horus]

I made up my mind about kunlun after much diligent research. It can go straight to hell and that Max guy can go along with it.

 

What lead you to that conclusion?

[Horus]

There are quite a few energetic imbalances in the practices of the basic posture of kunlun: this is a good enough reason for not practicing it, imho.

 

I'd appreciate if you could outline more detail in your experiences here?

[Cheshire Cat]

I'd appreciate if you could outline more detail in your experiences here?

 

Basically it's about the way in which the leg channels are opened by the posture: it puts too much emphasis on a few of them, resulting in an imbalanced energetic situation in the lower body.

At first, it feels good: the energy flows to the perineum, but there they lack the energetic push of other important leg channels (especially those located in the external side of the legs and the butt) to travel the spine properly.

 

As a result, a portion of energy travels the spine, but the majority is dissipated by one of the most infamous area of the body (gate of life and death, meaning that "it can be cultivated to be" the gate of death) and the practitioner isn't aware of that because the process is subtle.  

Edited October 1, 2015 by Cheshire Cat

[liminal_luke]

Horus,

 

Do you practice Kunlun/Yi Gong? If so, I´d be interested to know your experience and opinion of the practice -- if you feel like sharing.

 

Liminal

[Horus]

Horus,

 

Do you practice Kunlun/Yi Gong? If so, I´d be interested to know your experience and opinion of the practice -- if you feel like sharing.

 

Liminal

 

Hey Lim

 

I just got the text, but it has been calling me...

 

I'll let you know when I've delved, which at my speed may be a year or so lol - I like to creep up on this shit

 

[Horus]

Basically it's about the way in which the leg channels are opened by the posture: it puts too much emphasis on a few of them, resulting in an imbalanced energetic situation in the lower body.

At first, it feels good: the energy flows to the perineum, but there they lack the energetic push of other important leg channels (especially those located in the external side of the legs and the butt) to travel the spine properly.

 

As a result, a portion of energy travels the spine, but the majority is dissipated by one of the most infamous area of the body (gate of life and death, meaning that "it can be cultivated to be" the gate of death) and the practitioner isn't aware of that because the process is subtle.  

 

So, perhaps there's a need to counterbalance it with posture that develops the Yang Leg Channels...?

 

Is that a common experience?

 

With regard to the Gate of Life and Death (Gate of Mortality) - it is the control base for the 8 Extraordinary meridians...

 

If the belt channel is blocked it cannot successfully mitigate the uprising yin through the other 7 extra channels...

 

Have you done much work on the wei mai (yin & yang) and qiao mai (yin &yang), chong mai, dai mai?

 

Because, in theory if you have not opened them up sufficiently first - it will slowly build their capacity by dispersing the rising earth yin, bit by bit - and that will chew all the juice for quite some time until a critical mass is reached thereby opening the extras and filling the regular 12 channels...

 

I don't know what extra channel work you had done prior to that, so sorry if you have - just trying to wrap my noggin round the concept...

[Cheshire Cat]

With regard to the Gate of Life and Death (Gate of Mortality) - it is the control base for the 8 Extraordinary meridians...

 

 

If the belt channel is blocked it cannot successfully mitigate the uprising yin through the other 7 extra channels...

 

Have you done much work on the wei mai (yin & yang) and qiao mai (yin &yang), chong mai, dai mai?

 

Because, in theory if you have not opened them up sufficiently first - it will slowly build their capacity by dispersing the rising earth yin, bit by bit - and that will chew all the juice for quite some time until a critical mass is reached thereby opening the extras and filling the regular 12 channels...

 

I never worked on the leg channels with mind-intent, although I practised a lot of ZZ .

I just cultivated Ren-Mai and Du-mai prior.

 

I feel that the wei mai and qiao mai channels could be in some way obstructed in the area of the right knee.

I never cultivated with mind intent wei mai , qiao mai  and dai mai.

 

Do you think that the problem I reported is related to my peculiar energetic condition?

Could you share your ideas on how to solve that? It would be very interesting for me.

 

Thank you :-)

[Horus]

I never worked on the leg channels with mind-intent, although I practised a lot of ZZ .

I just cultivated Ren-Mai and Du-mai prior.

 

I feel that the wei mai and qiao mai channels could be in some way obstructed in the area of the right knee.

I never cultivated with mind intent wei mai , qiao mai  and dai mai.

 

Do you think that the problem I reported is related to my peculiar energetic condition?

Could you share your ideas on how to solve that? It would be very interesting for me.

 

Thank you :-)

 

It's your condition and it's the practice, there is never a coincidence that we choose certain practices for what they bring us to. The practices we choose draw us to important realisations even from the start.

 

The easiest solution is to test it for yourself...

 

It may take a while to attune your focus (depending on how much work you've already done) but...take an approach during  Meditate on the du mai and ren mai (mco) - which you have done already - and in a session, once you are connected with the MCO energy start to work with the other extra channels and notice how open or close they are.

 

Working with the wei mai & qiao mai - start at the top of the head with bilateral intention (Yi) on Zheng Ying (gb17)...

 

Opening a channel is easier if you focus on opening all of the points on the channel and connect them to establish flow/assess the level of flow/openness.

 

It helps to touch the points, gently tap them, rub them, bring fingers to a point and open them gradually to open the point, breath respiration into the points, acupuncture, beads with bandaids, sword fingers...whatever feels better for you.

 

The whole idea is based on the law - where your mind goes your energy follows.

 

This will start to give you a basis of how open each channel is and a realisation of what is actually required to open the channel and what that actually means in tangible terms with hands on reference.

 

It helps to try and open sections of the channel at a time by opening and connecting points like notes on a musical score - and you can start to here the music. Each not has a frequency, and the more you focus and open the energy points and channels you will hear the internal music/frequency of the etheric body (each point will being to sing for you).

 

Work on from bilateral Zheng Ying forward to Mu Chuang (GB16) and then Tou Lin Qi (GB15) and so on, descending the front of the body via the points of the Yang to Yin route of the Wei Mai - and connect with the Yang route of the up to LI16 then up the head to GB 20 and back up to GB17...

 

Basically making the yin and yang wei mai and qiao mai channels into one big loop (bilateral loops) - opening every point and connecting them with each other...

 

You will feel pulses at each point as the energy arrives and builds at a point...

 

You may find it easier to take the flow of energy in MCO and redirect it through the channel as you will have a greater capacity to feel the flow in the MCO already....

 

imo you have some Liver stagnation and probably some Spleen deficiency which is stopping the qi flow due to impeded blood flow...so if you cant do it/learn it yourself...you may benefit from a visit to an acupuncturist or qigong dr.

 

But ultimately you want to come to a point of being able to asses all of your organs and channels and balance them together - that way you know what is going on internally - and when a practice or incident adversely or positively changes your system, you actually know how rather than having to interpret it uncertain intangible ideas.

 

ie when you ascend the yang wei mai, you can feel the yin wei mai descending (in energy flow/reflection)...if not then either the flow is impeded or your connection (thought and intent) needs to be developed more to sense what is actually happening in the channels...

 

You do however need to do the same with the Chong Mai. I'd suggest going easy there though, as the energy will all ascend to the head if the lower jiao and lower points of the channels are closed - which will overheat you and in your case imo - lead to some rising Liver Fire, which would be a false fire/empty heat caused by resultant yin deficiency because the yin (lower) aspect of the body is closed compared with the top - and all this work is just more fire, adding more heat. light and ascending energy to the mix.

 

Hence the focus of most systems of developing the root (yin, LDT, legs, water, balanced organs) prior to the trunk, branches and leaves...

 

So before any of that even starts to come into pay (opening the extra channels that is) - you'd better put some focus on opening your root to the earth and tonifying yin (kidneys, and liver, spleen) and assessing a nice full open root - and in attempting to then balance that with yang you will lead yourself to open the yang leg channels in harmony with the three yin channels in the legs...

 

I'd suggest learning pulse diagnosis to balance the energy of the organs through all of this...

[Cheshire Cat]

Good post Horus,

 

but one of the main points in kunlun system is that one shouldn't practice any alternative energy work during the training.

Just the posture.

 

And I was pointing out that the posture produces imbalances.

[liminal_luke]

I´m not convinced that the Kunlun posture is inherently unbalanced, Cheshire Cat, but if the problem is related to having the heels up off the ground that´s easily remedied. Simply stand up, feet flat on the floor. Many of Max´s students do it this way. Sifu Jenny Lamb recommends sitting in a chair for the express purpose of opening the leg meridians, but I know of at least one student who asked Max about doing it in full lotus and got and the go-ahead.

 

I´ve been to workshops and retreats with both Max and Sifu Jenny Lamb, and neither of them gives the impression of being imbalanced or weak to me.

 

Liminal

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't have to convince anyone...

[liminal_luke]

Absolutely not, Cheshire Cat. Didn´t mean to imply otherwise. Just wanted to point out that there are teacher-approved ways to vary the posture that might (or might not?) make the posture less problematic from your point of view.

 

 

Liminal

[Cheshire Cat]

I can't see the point of practicing kunlun without the posture.

Better to rely on another system instead, imho.

[Aeran]

Is there a basic summary of what Kunlun is about, what it entails in terms of practice, what it's ultimate goals are, etc. somewhere? I've heard people say a lot of stuff about Kunlun ever since I started reading this board, but I always feel like most of it goes over my head, like everyone read a book about the system that I didn't or something :/

[Chang]

They may well have read a book about the system. http://www.amazon.co.uk/KUNLUN%C2%AE-System-Alchemy-Leading-Within/dp/098522360X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445264657&sr=8-1&keywords=kunlun

[balance.]

Y'all be cray!

 

Kunlun is "complete" ; whether that means full and perfect awakening and a breaking of the karmic wheel or a manifestation of one of the many formless forms or indomitable health or a pleasant and stable demeanor. 

 

Kunlun is "complete" whether you practice one breath exclusively... can only do i-jong... have an affinity for red phoenix.... drawn only to red dragon..... love the yin/yang palm ..... **provided** your intention is aligned with that (whichever goal you wish to realize) end. Kunlun applied with intention provides one helluva boost.  That might be where people complain about speed.  It may be valuable to know too that the pracitioner is solely responsible for the experiences they draw to themselves with these practices.  It's all within your subconscious/concious beliefs and intentions.  You are literally creating your world with your Mind; take some responsiblity for your manifestations and create something loving and beautiful instead! 

 

Every form max teaches eventually breaks down and becomes something like one breath.  One breath, inherently formless, contains every circulation max teaches and all those he doesn't know.  One breath is a surrender practice.  All form *must* break down if you'd realize formlessness.  If your vision is open, watch what energy flows and what shifts within "you" while doing one breath...... that one isn't just for relaxtion and grounding

 

One breath eventually takes on a life of it's own.  You gotta let go. 

 

I love max and diana.  Ainter's gonna aint!

 

 

love y'all.

 

 

bobby

[balance.]

all the talk of opening specific channels makes my head hurt;  why not just practice from a state of easy perfection (no-grasping) and see what manifests as a result??

 

focusing on a resolution to a specific problem that doesn't involve a collapse of that error into formless perfection is inherently flawed since nothing in this whole wide world of form is real. 

 

 

 

love

 

bobby

Edited October 22, 2015 by balance.