The roots of totalitarianism are in religion

[Apech]

“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.” 
― George Orwell, 1984

 

 

 

 

 

One of my heroes, Hitchens, argues that Christianity is a model for totalitarian rule.  And I imagine the same could be said for Islam.  The religions of the book are a kind of heavenly sanction for hierarchical rule over others - right through from the divine right of kings in the Feudal system to the awesome power of the American presidents.  The whole idea of the right to interfere in the lives of not only your own citizens but also the rest of the population of the planet comes directly from the sense of moral justification born of religion.  Drone strikes are the vengeance of the Almighty from Heaven.

 

Totalitarian rule can be overt - like Stalin or Hitler - or hidden like the current supremacy of the West over the rest of the earth.

 

If we don't all, shed any attachment or reverence for religion, then we are servants of this cause and without taking responsibility for this we have no morals, ethics or good conduct.  We cannot cultivate Tao or Te without renouncing religion.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Apech

[Taoist Texts]

The roots of totalitarianism are in religion

 

hmmm.... in where the roots of religion are then?

[Karl]

“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.” ― http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3706.George_Orwell]George Orwell[/url], http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/153313]1984[/url]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aecGejnBqo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aecGejnBqo[/url]

One of my heroes, Hitchens, argues that Christianity is a model for totalitarian rule. And I imagine the same could be said for Islam. The religions of the book are a kind of heavenly sanction for hierarchical rule over others - right through from the divine right of kings in the Feudal system to the awesome power of the American presidents. The whole idea of the right to interfere in the lives of not only your own citizens but also the rest of the population of the planet comes directly from the sense of moral justification born of religion. Drone strikes are the vengeance of the Almighty from Heaven. Totalitarian rule can be overt - like Stalin or Hitler - or hidden like the current supremacy of the West over the rest of the earth. If we don't all, shed any attachment or reverence for religion, then we are servants of this cause and without taking responsibility for this we have no morals, ethics or good conduct. We cannot cultivate Tao or Te without renouncing religion.

You realise that socialism is essentially atheistic and religion was something Stalin was stamping out. Religion also opposes totalitarian rule as in Jesus and the Roman occupation and the collaboration by the high priests.

 

So, yes, religion can be made a weapon of totalitarianism - the crusades/the inquisition etc

 

More thinking required I think, but you are on the right trail.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Karl

[thelerner]

You realise that socialism is essentially atheistic and religion was something Stalin was stamping out. Religion also opposes totalitarian rule as in Jesus and the Roman occupation and the collaboration by the high priests.

 

So, yes, religion can be made a weapon of totalitarianism - the crusades/the inquisition etc

 

More thinking required I think, but you are on the right trail.

Again, I think you might be more accurate to say communism not socialism, since people here, especially the Europeans see socialism as modern Western Europe style government, not as the Russian and Chinese system you tend to aim for. 

 

I think religion tends to be born of rebel mystics, which quickly becomes dogmatic and a bit stale as they organize, of necessity splits into subgroups based on interpretations and like any revolutionary system, generally moves towards reform as it ages, though extremist groups ebb and flow, often using religion as cover for power and thievery. 

 

Religion can be made (or perverted) into what ever tool the people want. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by thelerner

[Karl]

Again, I think you might be more accurate to say communism not socialism, since people here, especially the Europeans see socialism as modern Western Europe style government, not as the Russian and Chinese system you tend to aim for. 

 

I think religion tends to be born of rebel mystics, which quickly becomes dogmatic and a bit stale as they organize, of necessity splits into subgroups based on interpretations and like any revolutionary system, generally moves towards reform as it ages, though extremist groups ebb and flow. 

 

Religion can be made (or perverted) into what ever tool the people want. 

 

I don't differentiate because socialism is just the progression to the next level of totalitarianism collectivism if it isn't opposed. Europe has had relative stability since the Second World War that exhausted the European States. There is no reason to think that the catalyst for collectivism will not ultimately lead down that path. Germany was the most enlightened country in the world prior to the First World War.

 

Religion is the collectivist/organised version of one mans ideology. Doesn't matter if it's politics or religion the results are entirely predictable.

 

This should lead to a conclusion-but it doesn't. When Yoga talks about integration, it is not talking about collectivism. When it says everybody is connected it isn't suggesting a gathering of like minded souls. It's saying the opposite.

[Apech]

You realise that socialism is essentially atheistic and religion was something Stalin was stamping out. Religion also opposes totalitarian rule as in Jesus and the Roman occupation and the collaboration by the high priests.

 

So, yes, religion can be made a weapon of totalitarianism - the crusades/the inquisition etc

 

More thinking required I think, but you are on the right trail.

 

 

Well, firstly Stalin was trying to replace religion with himself essentially.  But the idea to make people subservient is traditionally the field of organised religion.

 

Yes, Jesus was challenging the state (Rome), organised religion (the jewish religious hierarchy) and so on ... but look what happened to him!  I see Jesus himself as anti-totalitarian ... but the religion founded in his name as being completely about controlling the masses using divine threat.

[Karl]

Well, firstly Stalin was trying to replace religion with himself essentially.  But the idea to make people subservient is traditionally the field of organised religion.

 

Yes, Jesus was challenging the state (Rome), organised religion (the jewish religious hierarchy) and so on ... but look what happened to him!  I see Jesus himself as anti-totalitarian ... but the religion founded in his name as being completely about controlling the masses using divine threat.

 

Yes, absolutely. Now make the logical leap. You have the information and you are certain it is true, so do the logical syllogism and discover what you always knew to be true.

[Apech]

Yes, absolutely. Now make the logical leap. You have the information and you are certain it is true, so do the logical syllogism and discover what you always knew to be true.

 

 

I am God and you are my slave?

[Karl]

I am God and you are my slave?

 

Yes, that, obviously :-)