Funny Spanish cathedral experience

[Bud Jetsun]

While traveling through Spain yesterday, I stopped at a huge cathedral.  The Moorish craftsmen were masters. 

 

The front had a monstrosity of gold plated idols for worship, a spectacle at least 50ft high of foil gilded everything. 

 

There was a man who's job seemed to be getting ignored as he told folks in multiple languages not to take photos inside the church. 

 

I did not kneel when I reached the front next to the massive gold idolatry.  The man politely asked me why I did not kneel before the alter.  I told him I shared the religion of Christ, which was an anarchist Buddha harshly opposed to both idolatry and religions that put emphasis on the external. 

 

His answer was priceless, "No sir, Christ was a Catholic, and you should kneel, kneeling will help develop your faith."

 

 

[Jetsun]

Christ wasn't Catholic, he was Jewish.

[Bud Jetsun]

If Christ was a Jew (and I don't disagree this is the textbook answer), he sure spent a lot of his life smashing Jewish philosophy and ethics and religious practices. Never mind that the term Catholic wasn't coined until 110 years after Christs death.  

 

Jetsun, you obviously need to spend more time kneeling in front of a wall of gold plated crazy to develop your faith. :-)

[Nikolai1]

It can be hard to argue with someone who thinks you should be kneeling. Not kneeling can always be called lack of humility, and so can arguing.

[liminal_luke]

If Christ was a Jew (and I don't disagree this is the textbook answer), he sure spent a lot of his life smashing Jewish philosophy and ethics and religious practices.

Smashing Jewish philosophy, ethics, and religious practices is pretty much par for the course among all the Jews I know, so I figure Jesus was in very good company.

[thelerner]

Smashing Jewish philosophy, ethics, and religious practices is pretty much par for the course among all the Jews I know, so I figure Jesus was in very good company.

True, arguing and debating are central to Jewish culture since forever.  Most (all?) of the prophets were pretty rebellious characters.  Hardcore study often means dividing into twos and arguing over every biblical point, often tearing down biblical figures.  Though its balanced by some concentration on what's good too. 

 

back on point.

Focus is everything.  Why argue with people in there holy sanctuaries?   Why be flabbergasted a Catholic in a cathedral states Christ is Catholic?   Neither should you walk into Buddhists temples and insult there statues and lecture them.  Seems like a wasted trip, learning nothing and spreading ill will.   If  angry and wanting to fight, join a dojo.  They are excellent places to learn respect.

 

I'm not Christian but when I travel I'll go into Churches, look around, appreciate the art, soak up some of the wah of the place, see what I can learn.  

 

Part of my kids's religious education was going to Mosque, cathedrals and churches and learning about other religions from there respective pastors.  Our temple sponsors it, and the first rule is Be Respectful.  It goes a long way.  Without it, the ego swells. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

Why be flabbergasted a Catholic in a cathedral states Christ is Catholic?

 

I think it's very understandable. We might as well say that Lao Zi was Christian which influenced his writing of the Koran. If people are going to claim to care about some religious figure, at least have a basic understanding of the figure. Catholicism came after Jesus, who was a Jew...pretty easy to learn that.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Aetherous

[3bob]

any person with some understanding of the gods and devas has zero problem with so called idols per-se, although there may be differences in opinion concerning the rankings

[thelerner]

I think it's very understandable. We might as well say that Lao Zi was Christian which influenced his writing of the Koran. If people are going to claim to care about some religious figure, at least have a basic understanding of the figure. Catholicism came after Jesus, who was a Jew...pretty easy to learn that.

here on a discussion forum, yes, great.  But when visiting someone else's place of worship, not so much; unless its a public forum and they ask your opinion.  Entering another's Church is like being a guest in a person's house.  Why go out of ones way to disrespect there views?  When it comes to religion, one shouldn't expect perfect (or much) rationality or historic accuracy.  

 

Pointing out others religious foibles is easy.  Most religions seem crazy and illogical to outsiders.  Even within the same religion different branches seem ludicrous.   Its the cause of so much violence and strife.   The answer to me is to nod, go my own way,  rub mud on my tummy and howl at the moon.    

Edited July 29, 2015 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

here on a discussion forum, yes, great.  But when visiting someone else's place of worship, not so much; unless its a public forum and they ask your opinion.  Entering another's Church is like being a guest in a person's house.  Why go out of ones way to disrespect there views?  When it comes to religion, one shouldn't expect perfect (or much) rationality or historic accuracy.  

 

I don't think Bud Jetsun actually corrected the guy...but he should have! It's not disrespecting the guy's views to say that Jesus wasn't Catholic...it's just the truth. There shouldn't be a church caretaker who is telling people inaccuracies.

 

Also if you think Bud Jetsun was disrespectful for not kneeling...that's not true. Christians don't have some obligation to kneel in order to be respectful, especially if it's potentially a matter of idolatry and empty gestures. Jesus himself spoke against both, therefore Christians are free to stand while others kneel, and to do so is not at all disrespectful in a Christian church.

 

Pointing out others religious foibles is easy.  Most religions seem crazy and illogical to outsiders.  Even within the same religion different branches seem ludicrous.

 

But this is a case of a person being clearly mistaken...not anything having to do with religious foibles. No sect of Christianity teaches that Jesus was a Catholic...it's just plain wrong. They do need to be corrected in such a case...I say this as someone who identifies as Christian, letting you know that it's not okay to spread lies within the religion. The correction can happen in a church or anywhere else and it's not disrespectful, but is truthful and good.

[Nikolai1]

It is quite clear that the caretaker had already got inwardly annoyed by the not kneeling, otherwise he wouldn't have taken the OP to task. Who would get annoyed by such a thing? The exact same kind of person who would believe that Jesus was a Catholic. Narrowness of intellect and quickness to annoyance are the same thing. The caretaker was wrong, but at the same time, probably wasn't capable of any better so just ignored is probably the best course. Some people can't be spoken to, and in any given case this becomes obvious quite quickly.

[Kubba]

What would happend if you knee?

Actually bowing would be even better.

Jesus was not Catholic nor had he died. Bowing or kneeing is for other reason and they do not belong to any religion. "Religion" is more a path to the same thing. Anyone who reached it can describe his path and then people will start to call it religion - better then other offcourse.

I would say that not every religion matches each cultural background. Hitting with a stick an European while he sits on the pillow - not fun.

 

Some cathedras have good energy for practice - why not try? I know one Christian place where people regullary receive spontaneous Kundalini rising after pilgrimage to this place (as if receiving shaktipat from the place). But with the same regularity they missunderstand it and ends up in psychiatric clinique next to this churh...

Edited July 29, 2015 by Kubba

[liminal_luke]

What would happ

 

Some cathedras have good energy for practice - why not try?

I once heard Healing Tao instructor Juan Li talk about the power of Spanish churches. According to him, many of the cathedrals were built in an alchemically potent way. You´d need to know where to stand and what to do to access the energy of the place though.

Edited July 30, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Gerard]

Certainly, look up and check the location of "La Alhambra" in Granada, not strictly a Spanish cathedral but it's one magnificent building with good Feng Shui.

 

Yes when Islam settled in Spain it brought along Sufi knowledge and wisdom with it. Truly wonderful!

[Jetsun]

I think the best Cathedrals are the Christian ones in France built during the Dark Ages. They full of esoteric wisdom and built with sacred geometry, check out Chartres for example, modern scientists still can't work out how the alchemists made the stain glass windows.

[Gerard]

Inspired by devas, what do you think.

 

If you could see their mansions, the ones that are crystal white with hues of purple and blue and reaching up as high as you can see with your eyes, then you'll be amazed at the things they can attain in their happy world. Those Middle Ages alchemists were clearly inspired and sometimes guided by tavatimsa devas.