Objective reality

[Stosh]

 

,,,,,,,Im not sure asking for someone to provide proofs ,is asserting that in fact they lied....the thing becomes an issue of ,,what proof may consist of , rather than opposing assertions.

[Marblehead]

Of course Karl that's not right - but disagreeing with you makes it right!

Hehehe.  But Karl was right this time.  Without the objective "you", you can have no thoughts.  You simply wouldn't exist.

[Marblehead]

Time to move on to Q.

There is no place to move to.  We are already exactly where we are supposed to be at this very moment in time.  It cannot be otherwise.  That's the objective truth.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Marblehead

[Karl]

Man, you're like some annoying yappy sixth former. Everything I argue of course I know to be complete nonsense, i don't need to be told it.  If you tell me its nonsense, though, the nonsense is yours alone.  

 

But though I know the nonsense of my own words, I can tell a mile off a person who has found the truth and is trying to explain it.  They speak nonsense, and it is confusing and paradoxical.  Your words have a very vulgar consistency.  You wrote a book with one half of the truth, and you have since repudiated it and write on these forums the other half of the truth.  Big wide pendulum swings, so wide that you are forgetting you are swinging and you thnk you are headed in a straight like towards the truth.

 

I want to see narrow little swings, within the space of a sentence I wish to see your confusion.  Then you'll be conscious of it yourself and consciousness of your confusion is itself the truth.

 

It isn't in what you say Nikolai. It doesn't matter if you believe it's true or, believe it's rubbish. The paradox only exists as long as you let it. You hold two conflicting premises.

 

Of course my words have a vulgar consistency for you. Ignore the book, I wrote it when I thought as you do now. I was showing only that this is the process like one half of a journey.

 

It is objective reality that you believe what you believe is true, or believe what you believe is subjective nonsense. The content doesn't matter.

 

I said before its either the red or the blue pill. You either want to know objective reality, or you want to stay in the subjective program of the Matrix. That is something you have to chose. Not everyone likes reality, that's an objective truth for you.

 

As Cypher said "ignorance can be bliss", he despised everything about the real world, it was miserable experience for him and he hated Morpheus for doing it to him. He said Morpheus had lied to make him take the red pill, he said, if he had known, he would have told him to shove it up his back side. Do you understand why my words are vulgar to you ? They are poison to your beautiful subjective dream, bitter, harsh, blunt.

 

I couldnt blame you for taking the blue pill.

 

[Marblehead]

,,,,,,,Im not sure asking for someone to provide proofs ,is asserting that in fact they lied....the thing becomes an issue of ,,what proof may consist of , rather than opposing assertions.

Now you want proof of my opinion?  Give me a break!

[Karl]

There is no place to move to.  We are already exactly where we are supposed to be at this bery moment in time.  It cannot be otherwise.  That's the objective truth.

 

I'm not sure about the 'bery' time :-) but that's just perfect.

[Karl]

Now you want proof of my opinion?  Give me a break!

 

I'm not saying anymore as I see that you and seeker of wisdom are objectivist and I'm now redundant. Good :-)

[Stosh]

I dont think our language even allows us to well express ironically related views simultaneously though they may be apprehended that way. Nor does confused babble indicate that someone for a fact is speaking a wise thing. Please guys , if its about to get not really very civil , take it outside or something.

[Marblehead]

I'm not sure about the 'bery' time :-) but that's just perfect.

Yeah, I just noticed and corrected that.

[Marblehead]

I'm not saying anymore as I see that you and seeker of wisdom are objectivist and I'm now redundant. Good :-)

Don't let that hold you back.  This concept (objectivity) has always been interesting to discuss here what with the many different paths travelled by our members.

[Marblehead]

... if its about to get not really very civil , take it outside or something.

But then I rarely get accused of being overly civil.

[Silent Answers]

What about this angle?:

 

What the majority call consciousness, is based on the human experience of it. Unless we've completely unclogged ourselves, how can we be sure we are really defining the true nature of it. More than likely it would be us learning from B.C'ers.

 

In fact, everything is conscious, to a degree/as a degree. Every thing is on record in its place, as acknowledge by the things, and whole realms of other things, that surround, and engulf it (submerged might be more accurate). The presence can be felt, and so reacted to. When those bonds deteriorate, a thing soon becomes part of something new. The attention is shifted.

 

It all takes place on the stage of mind, as it is in ourselves.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Silent Answers

[Nikolai1]

It's conversations like this that show the utter futility of trying to discuss truth´, especially on an internet forum.  If I met you, Karl, and saw that you felt my peace, I'd probably forgive you a lot of what you say.  But based on your words alone...you showed nothing in your book, and you show nothing here.

 

Now you warn us not to take notice of the book, I hope at some point in the future you gain the same perspective on your current output.

[Karl]

What about this angle?:

What the majority call consciousness, is based on the human experience of it. Unless we've completely unclogged ourselves, how can we be sure we are really defining the true nature of it. More than likely it would be us learning from B.C'ers.

In fact, everything is conscious, to a degree/as a degree. Every thing is on record in its place, as acknowledge by the things, and whole realms of other things, that surround, and engulf it (submerged might be more accurate). The presence can be felt, and so reacted to. When those bonds deteriorate, a thing soon becomes part of something new. The attention is shifted.

It all takes place on the stage of mind, as it as in ourselves.

 

You can't have an experience of consciousness. You are conscious of experiences. Consciousness cannot be conscious of itself.

 

Anytime you say 'felt' 'feel' 'feeling' 'a knowing' etc then it's time to probe. Who is the knower. That's direct Inquiry and a bit lumpy in that it can lead to the thought 'all this is not real', but it's a path for some.

[allinone]

i bet its not about the subject but its that Karl is stubborn.

[allinone]

its disadvantage to live in the head if its hardened. No good logic can't arise.

[Karl]

It's conversations like this that show the utter futility of trying to discuss truth´, especially on an internet forum.  If I met you, Karl, and saw that you felt my peace, I'd probably forgive you a lot of what you say.  But based on your words alone...you showed nothing in your book, and you show nothing here.

 

Now you warn us not to take notice of the book, I hope at some point in the future you gain the same perspective on your current output.

 

That's how it is then that's how it is. That is objective reality Nickolai.

 

I told you the book was from an earlier time, a snapshot, a bread crumb trail. You asked 'what happens next'? surely then you assumed that it was Incomplete ?

 

Are you angry because it seemed like I lied to you ? That you felt I broke a trust ? Is that why you mention forgiveness for my actions?

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

Ever experience centrifugal force?

 

Witness simultaneous events?

 

Observe light bouncing off a mirror?

[Karl]

i bet its not about the subject but its that Karl is stubborn.

 

Hey go molest Marblehead or Seeker of Wisdom they seem equally stubborn. Why pick on me. :-)

 

'Karl is stubborn' is that premise or conclusion and how did you arrive at it ?

 

All men are mortal

Aristotle is a man

Therefore Aristotle is mortal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Ever experience centrifugal force?

 

Witness simultaneous events?

 

Observe light bouncing off a mirror?

Who is that aimed at? I'd say yes .. but ask ,,whats the connection Im supposed to draw?

[Stosh]

Aristotle was stubborn too.  As am I and everyone whos posted so far , we all have that in common ,,, movin on...

[Karl]

Ever experience centrifugal force?

Witness simultaneous events?

Observe light bouncing off a mirror?

 

None of the above.

 

 

[allinone]

Hey go molest Marblehead or Seeker of Wisdom they seem equally stubborn. Why pick on me. :-) 'Karl is stubborn' is that premise or conclusion and how did you arrive at it ? All men are mortal Aristotle is a man Therefore Aristotle is mortal.

 

I have gotten that feeling when i have lost but can't let go. I thought i saw that pattern here too.

[Marblehead]

Aristotle was stubborn too.  As am I and everyone whos posted so far , we all have that in common ,,, movin on...

Yes Stosh, I am objectively stubborn regarding my subjectivity.

[Stosh]

Yes Stosh, I am objectively stubborn regarding my subjectivity.

I was hoping youd say "No Im not! "