Guns/Weapons etc

[Cameron]

What is everyones feeling about guns?

 

My feeling is they are basically an instrument of evil.

 

Something about what Lao Tzu says how if you kill someone you should act as if you are attending a funueral?

 

My sense is-I have never purchased a gun before-never needed one before.

 

Like..I don't even want that sort of low energy around me.

 

Seems friends of mine who ar einto guns sort of attract more BS to them..and let's face facts..owning g gun increases the chance that you will someday use it.

 

I mean..it's such an deep issue especially in the world today with all of our wars and kids killing kids.

 

thoughts?

[mantis]

i'm getting my license to carry arms the second i become of age to purchase one. i don't care if you're siddhartha himself unless you live in a secluded monastery you have to deal with wild ass people. if criminals got guns you best bet your last dollar i'll have one.

[Cameron]

okaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy.

 

others thoughts?

[mwight]

What is everyones feeling about guns?

 

My feeling is they are basically an instrument of evil.

 

Something about what Lao Tzu says how if you kill someone you should act as if you are attending a funueral?

 

My sense is-I have never purchased a gun before-never needed one before.

 

Like..I don't even want that sort of low energy around me.

 

Seems friends of mine who ar einto guns sort of attract more BS to them..and let's face facts..owning g gun increases the chance that you will someday use it.

 

I mean..it's such an deep issue especially in the world today with all of our wars and kids killing kids.

 

thoughts?

 

I don't know if anyone else can feel it, but I can. There is a tidal wave of negative energy on its way. I believe it is something on the magnitude of WWIII.

 

 

Cam guns may be evil but you would be glad to have one (along with a few thousand rounds of ammo) if the world fell into utter chaos.

 

I would invest in solar ovens, wilderness survival books and gear, edible plants books, and huge stock piles of vacuum sealed lentils, beans, and multivitamins.

[mantis]

okaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy.

 

others thoughts?

 

i understand you're progressing on your spiritual path and from the way it looks you may wish to leave society in the future. one thing of note is that you do not become a literal immortal in any level of practice. you are still a human, and you will still get shot if you aren't careful.

 

edit: what do you think martial arts where for? yeah, protection.

Edited October 23, 2007 by mantis

[Cameron]

I here you but lets not forget about the law of karma.

 

If you kill another human being you are fucked..let's not lose sight of that.

 

I do practice martial arts but not with the intent to harm others.

 

This is a very deep and serious issue..let's not be childish about it please.

 

others thoughts?

[mantis]

i'd prefer to live than die

[mwight]

I didn't think I was being childish cam. I am absolutely serious. I believe one has the karmic right to defend ones life, and that of loved ones.

 

Mr. Weird Banana (John Chang's Teacher) slaughtered an entire village and moved to java to hide from Chinese authorities, and yet he achieved immortality, not that I am condoning such a thing.

 

 

I value human life. I don't want to see anyone die or suffer. However if I am attacked it would go against my true nature not to defend myself.

Edited October 23, 2007 by mwight

[Cameron]

Your guys thoughts appreciated.

 

Any other peoples thought for the other side of the coin or should I just plan on getting my gun next week

[Flynn]

I'm going to have to side with Cameron with this one. I can't stand the thought of killing anything, let alone another person. The thought process you have to go through is whether or not you would want what you are doing to that person/animal/insect done to yourself. Personally, I think that there is always a solution other than violence. Guns just serve to make it easier for us to distance ourselves from that which we are killing.

 

I don't have any issues with guns when they are used for sport (targets, not hunting), but in the context you are talking about I am strongly opposed. Mantis, I think you have to look at the bigger picture: the effect that will have on other people and society and the world as opposed to self-defense. Guns are not as much a form of self-defense as martial arts are, as many martial arts teach you to subdue an opponent rather than kill them. With a gun it is much easier to kill or maim than to disarm.

 

I also agree with mwight's feelings about the negative energy, I sense that too. Even strictly politically speaking we are on the verge of WWIII, just ask any historian or anyone that was around before and during WWII. History unavoidably repeats itself, you just have to make sure you aren't part of the problem.

[Cameron]

EXACTLY Flynn.

 

My feeling is buying a gun would be me becoming more "part of the problem".

 

If some crazy person wants to kill you they are going to kill you..whether you have a stockpile of weapons or not.

 

Of course..as I mentioned several times already this is not a cut and dry black or white issue.

 

This is literally a LIFE AND DEATH issue.

 

I think this thread should be added to, thought about and the thoughts about it refined over coming months/years/decades whatever.

[mantis]

if someone is crazy and walks into my house with a gun they are getting shot, no questions asked. i am not contributing to the problem - i am protecting myself from the problem they have created. if you look at the other side i'm helping society by killing the dude. maybe he'd rob or kill someone else.

 

it's not negativity - it's survival. yeah sure martial arts to dismantle i guess that's why there is tons of moves you use and the receiver is instantly dead. right.

 

don't get me wrong - i'm all for peace; but i'm not retarded.

Edited October 24, 2007 by mantis

[Cameron]

So..mantis..NOT that I have any plans on going through with this..what sort of gun would you reccomend for a "first timer"?

[mantis]

9mm smith & wesson

 

picture

 

that's what i would get. if your aim is to kill the guy, might i suggest this

 

picture

 

haha just kidding

[Lozen]

Weapons are just a tool. They can be used to harm or to protect. I keep them around because I'd rather not get up close and personal with a bad guy who will likely be bigger and stronger. Plus, they are cool.

[Smile]

There are many views on this- even from spiritual standpoint there are pros and cons. I would get a permit if it was easier in NYC, but this government created so many steps, it would take so much time, I'm just lazy.

 

To kill someone who aims at your life? Why not? If you don't, think of how many people they will do after they slice your throat? And what karma is better? Killing them or allowing them to kill you and others later on? Just look at it as if the universe is sending the "trash" in your capable hands to take care of...

 

It's not that I don't treasure life of any beings. It's all depends on the situation...

[Flynn]

if someone is crazy and walks into my house with a gun they are getting shot, no questions asked. i am not contributing to the problem - i am protecting myself from the problem they have created. if you look at the other side i'm helping society by killing the dude. maybe he'd rob or kill someone else.

 

it's not negativity - it's survival. yeah sure martial arts to dismantle i guess that's why there is tons of moves you use and the receiver is instantly dead. right.

 

don't get me wrong - i'm all for peace; but i'm not retarded.

 

 

Just for the sake of argument, why would they deserve to die any more than you would? You can't possibly claim to be aware of everyone's role in the world, or if you do, can you really justify the idea that you are more deserving of life than they are? In all honesty, what is there to fear in death but the unknown?

 

Killing people doesn't solve the problem, or "help society". Think of that person's family. Would you really feel justified in taking someone's child, parent, or sibling just because they posed an immediate threat to your personal security? In terms of "survival", I think that the argument of survival lost its validity long ago in our evolution. The fact that we possess the ability to reasonably assess a situation means that we have the ability to come up with an alternative to our natural inclination of violence. I don't know, maybe my views are dated and inapplicable to today's world, but I would hope that there is the possibility of peaceful resolutions becoming the normal way of solving conflicts.

 

By the way, are you really "all for peace" if you are so willing to kill somebody for your own protection?

[turbo]

Cameron,

 

Guns are not inherently evil, nor are they low energy. This is only a reflection of your thoughts about guns. My feelings about guns is that they are a tool and often a valuable tool, unfortunately they are used without forethought, in ignorance, and without education. Just like any other tool they can, and unfortunately are, used to injure people. I agree that this use is bad, wrong, and evil. However a gun does not fire itself, it requires someone to load, aim, and fire it. That said some people are still injured when all precautions are taken, occasionally hunter is shot instead of a deer.

 

An individual who owns a gun should use it. In fact they should be proficient in its use and in all relevant safety measures. I recall an article I read a year or so ago that talked about a community that had a very high percentage of armed residents, and they had reduced crime rates. Criminals didn't want to get shot robbing someone. From a certain perspective is seems that the criminals are counting on their victims don't have a gun every time that commit a crime. I wonder how many trucks with a NRA stickers get car-jacked.

 

Anyhow, my feelings are that guns are dangerous and gun owners need to treat them with the up most respect and caution. There are enjoyable uses for guns, however in the wrong hands people misusing guns can wreak havoc. Also, the founders of the U.S. made a point of telling us that we have the right to bear arms and I feel this is very important for two reasons. First, foreign invaders would never bring an army into the US as the populace is too armed and what the army didn't take care of the citizenry would. Second, the founders believed that we may need to defend ourselves from the government someday.

 

Concerning karma I have two things to say. First, karma such a complex topic that it is said only the fully enlightened can understand its workings. Also, Milarepa killed 35 people as an act of revenge and attained enlightenment, not to say that we could or should, we should live as skillfully as possible, but karma is mysterious.

 

One thing I wonder about is whether it is better to kill an animal to eat than it is to buy dead animals to eat. Buying meat from the grocery store exposes you to all kinds of nasty stuff, and supports an incredibly destructive and animal abusive system. On the other hand, if you kill the animal, you pulled the trigger and the blood is on your hands so to speak.

 

Thanks for starting the discussion.

 

edit: cleaned up the skillful part

Edited October 24, 2007 by turbo

[Cameron]

Cool stuff.

 

Incidently...A guy I know from school is either the manager or works for the local gun club..which from what I understand is suppsoed to be a very good one.

 

He actually gave me his card and told me to come by and fire off some rounds whenever I wanted. This was like 2 years ago so don't know if he even remembers me. But IF I decide to pursue this further will start there.

 

Again..I might not pursue this anymore..but maybe I will...pursue it more..or won't..either of those 2 choices..

[林愛偉]

good cultivation will usually send an attacker flying on their butt, or keep them frozen in their stance...sometimes make them fall on the floor in excruciating pain.

 

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited October 24, 2007 by 林愛偉

[joeblast]

I'm pro-education, pro-carry, pro-use-your-power-responsibly, no matter what sort of power that may be. Is it any worse owning a viciously sharp sword than a gun? Both can easily maim and kill, only one can do so at a much greater range.

 

Better to not need and have than to not have and need. You never know when the need may arise.

 

That said...I'm a decently good shot, but I dont own or have a permit. Time, money...

[Cameron]

If I go through with it..which I don't know that I will at this point..will do it legally and stuff.

 

Actually..now that I think about shooting at the range might be fun..I don't know..maybe not..I think there is still something to not wanting that energy around thing..

[rain]

ive learned to shoot with luger, indoors, and have a certificate. dont have a pistol though, no need, and wouldn't have it in the house even in a safe. i loved the almost ritual-like orderly routines to secure safety, as well as the deep consentration and the way to measure your efforts afterwards. the aiming, the moment of action and the conscious use of breath...is nice. we shot at blinks. only, never anything closely resemble to humans or animals.

 

i've turned down offers to learn how to use a rifle for hunting.

[doc benway]

There was a time when I enjoyed collecting, working on, shooting, reloading ammo for, and carrying guns. At that point in my life, I was very Yang, into self defense, and paranoid, it was an interesting journey. I came to a point where it meant nothing to me anymore. One day, I really looked deeply into the experience of killing someone, were I to be put in that position, and I realized that, at the time, I had no desire to kill, even in self defense. Gun carry supporters like the saying: "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I don't know if I can honestly say that. At this point in time, I don't feel that death is my enemy so much anymore. I still love and study martial arts (without using any practical or modern weapons) but more for spiritual and health reasons (even though I get into quite physically and seriously). I don't feel any need or desire to use or carry guns at this point. If I am attacked, I may or may not be able to successfully to defend myself. That will be the case with or without a gun. It doesn't enter into my thoughts very much anymore - my fear has diminished.

I do have a few thoughts on the matter since the question came up:

Guns are not evil, they are tools used for punching holes through things at a distance.

If you choose to buy a gun, learn how to use and maintain it safely, and practice once in a while. Keep it securely locked up at all times that it's not on your person. I'd wager that more children are accidentally killed by guns each year than bad guys killed by private citizens...

If you choose to carry a gun, learn how to use, carry, and maintain it safely. Learn how to hit a chest/abdomen high, grapefruit sized target consistently at ~ 5-10 yards without using sights and practice frequently. If you can't do that, it's much more likely to hurt than help...

 

..I think there is still something to not wanting that energy around thing..

I think the energy is in you, not the tool. I can kill someone just as dead with a teaspoon, it just takes a bit more effort...

[mantis]

Just for the sake of argument, why would they deserve to die any more than you would? You can't possibly claim to be aware of everyone's role in the world, or if you do, can you really justify the idea that you are more deserving of life than they are? In all honesty, what is there to fear in death but the unknown?

 

Killing people doesn't solve the problem, or "help society". Think of that person's family. Would you really feel justified in taking someone's child, parent, or sibling just because they posed an immediate threat to your personal security? In terms of "survival", I think that the argument of survival lost its validity long ago in our evolution. The fact that we possess the ability to reasonably assess a situation means that we have the ability to come up with an alternative to our natural inclination of violence. I don't know, maybe my views are dated and inapplicable to today's world, but I would hope that there is the possibility of peaceful resolutions becoming the normal way of solving conflicts.

 

By the way, are you really "all for peace" if you are so willing to kill somebody for your own protection?

 

you answered yourself. if you can't see it i've made it bold for you. chances are if they're breaking into my house they are addicted to some form of drug and their family is stressed enough as is about them. i don't know what part of the world you're in, but yes, i prefer to take someones life and protect my family which is all that is dear to me than to invite someone with a gun to talk this over.