Ego and enlightenment

[Karl]

Did that 'popping out of the body' thing when I was a teenager. An early life reading Carlos Castaneda books got me to try that one. Apparently you need to anchor by putting a foot or hand in a bowl of water-which like any teenager I ignored. Result was a frantic few minutes trying to get back into my body and feeling like I was dying. Was it real ? No, but it certainly felt like it.

 

Then another time a few years ago experiencing an energy surge beginning at my feet and travelling up my body. It was like drowning and I was rigid with fear. A voice in my head said 'let go, let it happen' at which point I relaxed enough for the surge to pass up and over my head. I had been so tense that my muscles ached for several days. Again, It wasn't real, but real enough to have been soaked in sweat from head to toe. Never happened again.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Karl

[3bob]

ok I see what you mean by killing in that sense but to me I'd put say such is the killing of the attachment to seeing in a limited way although not a killing of form per-se but seeing the permutations into form for what they are - starting for example from pure energy and then proceeding to colors which are also vibrations.  In other words Siva does not kill his emanation or Om although they are taken back up (so to speak) during the return direction.

[Bindi]

 

  Many years ago I spent three and a half hours meditating, trying to realize the star above the head. I had heard so many people talking about it that I wanted to see it. There was supposed to be a star above the head, about 8 inches or so. So, I focused all my attention on that area and kept at it. Three and a half hours later, I popped out of the top of my physical head and found myself in a large empty space that resembled outer space, except that there were no stars to be seen. I could make out very faint lights in the background, but they were more like impressions of lights, or intentions of lights. The overwhelming sensation that I felt when I popped out was that I was dying, was going to die, or had died. A great fear overtook me so I stopped the meditation. 

 

 Later, I went back and explored this space. When I resolved that I would overcome the fear of death, I tried to jump into that huge space. Well much to my surprise I hit a barrier which appeared as a sheet of celophane/rainbow lightning and it bounced me back to my center of awareness.. 

 

 That feeling of the fear of death had to be overcome in order to take the next step. So, I don't see anything strange with Ramana's idea of killing the ego (mind, small self, conceptual mind, thinker etc). 

 

 

Did you ever make it past this barrier T_I?

 

Do you think the barrier was unresolved fear of death?

 

Could it even have been fear of ego 'transcendence', which might appear the same to the mind as death or ego death?

Edited August 8, 2015 by Bindi

[Bindi]

Ego exists as long as the body exists. Ego is the mind. What goes away is the attachment to the Ego. There is always the clarity and empty awareness but the mind flows like a stream of debris beneath the surface. This mind is what helps us operate in this world. We eat, sleep, wake, drink, poop, pee etc because of the mind. 

 

My teacher put it this way to me - "To think that somehow the Ego dies is wrong. It just doesn't control our actions anymore. It becomes a servant of the Spiritual mind...that empty clarity/awareness that is always present". I see experientially that it is true. This is what happens when we take the spiritual experiences (samadhis) into our everyday life. 

 

I agree that the problem is the mind's attachment to ego. I believe that to break this attachment the mind itself must first resolve its relationship to its hijackers, and then transcend its relationship to the senses and the persona, and that ego must then also transcend its role and become the servant of the spiritual mind.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Bindi

[3bob]

another thing is that mind/ego is really a tool (or hopefully should be) without any root of its own, and I'd say that even the term "spiritual mind" is problematic since that could be called the causal realm which is still dependent upon Self/Siva/Spirit/Tao/God (depending on your preference) to exist.

Edited August 8, 2015 by 3bob

[Bindi]

I'm torn between ego should die and ego should be transformed, I simply don't know, nor am I convinced either way at the moment.

 

Perhaps spiritual mind does have to be achieved first but then still needs to join with Siva/The Father/God

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Did you ever make it past this barrier T_I?

 

Do you think the barrier was unresolved fear of death?

 

Could it even have been fear of ego 'transcendence', which might appear the same to the mind as death or ego death?

Hi Bindi,

  I went back and tried a few times to jump in. I kept bouncing back to what I thought was my centre. It was interesting seeing the barrier. When I looked, you could see nothing there. But as soon as you hit it, the barrier resembled sheets of rainbow ice emitting mini charges of rainbow light.  On the last time I tried, all of a sudden two large hands appeared in the space. They formed an "O". I 'knew' that they were trying to help me. I dove into the hole outlined by the fingers. I found myself in a tunnel. I proceeded to fly down the tunnel. On and on.. On and on..  I was getting nowhere. After what seemed to be about 25 minutes or so, I gave up. 

 

  I believe I had overcome the fear of dying. I have no idea what the barrier is or why it is there. If I had to guess, I would say that we exist in bubbles and we can't break out whenever we want to.  Our whole universe exists in a bubble, but I am willing to bet that there are unlimited bubbles as indicated by the very faint intuitive lights in the far distance in the space. 

 

  Later, during other meditations, I discovered that I could reach this same space by focusing on the upper back of the head. There is a 'hole' there too. I had been experimenting with spinning the chakras into smaller and smaller orbits and this 'hole' just kind of opened up. When I first saw it, it looked like a black leach, or the typical Daoist yin/yang symbol, but once I became more accustomed with it, I realized the black was not solid but the image of the space beyond. I pushed my attention through the little hole at the back of the head and sat at the edge, looking out. Again, there were faint intuitions of lights in the very far distance. I didn't try to jump out from there as by then I was resigned to being stuck near the body (or the body mind connection, there actually wasn't any body left - it was dissolved).

[Tibetan_Ice]

Ego exists as long as the body exists. Ego is the mind. What goes away is the attachment to the Ego. There is always the clarity and empty awareness but the mind flows like a stream of debris beneath the surface. This mind is what helps us operate in this world. We eat, sleep, wake, drink, poop, pee etc because of the mind. 

 

My teacher put it this way to me - "To think that somehow the Ego dies is wrong. It just doesn't control our actions anymore. It becomes a servant of the Spiritual mind...that empty clarity/awareness that is always present". I see experientially that it is true. This is what happens when we take the spiritual experiences (samadhis) into our everyday life. 

 

Here's a wonderful snippet of Advaita Master Ramesh Balsekar talking about it...

 

Dwai,

  Is that your teacher? 

 

  He is pulling the same stuff that other neo-advaitists do. He downgrades 'enlightenment'..  there are no special powers, all you will get is peace of mind. No Bliss. Only peace of mind?

 

  Well, what about the spiritual accomplishments that the spiritual greats have demonstrated throughout history? Healing, manifesting forms (loaves and fish), bi or multi location, footprints in stone, knowing other persons' minds and personal history.  It is like Alan Wallace said, "no siddhis, no realization". The minute someone whom sells books starts to downplay enlightenment, I see red flags. 

 

  According to the Buddhists, the natural state is great bliss. Siddhis are part and parcel of realization. Nearly every Theravada Teacher acknowledges that the fourth jhana will grant specific powers such as knowing past lives, the minds of others, etc.  

 

  Don't get me wrong, I am not after siddhis for siddhis sake, but they are markers along the way. They are also a form of inspiration and help diminish the ego/rational mind. 

 

  So, needless to say, I don't think much of "Advaita Master Ramesh Balsekar".  Sorry. .

[Silent Answers]

Did that 'popping out of the body' thing when I was a teenager. An early life reading Carlos Castaneda books got me to try that one. Apparently you need to anchor by putting a foot or hand in a bowl of water-which like any teenager I ignored. Result was a frantic few minutes trying to get back into my body and feeling like I was dying. Was it real ? No, but it certainly felt like it.

 

Then another time a few years ago experiencing an energy surge beginning at my feet and travelling up my body. It was like drowning and I was rigid with fear. A voice in my head said 'let go, let it happen' at which point I relaxed enough for the surge to pass up and over my head. I had been so tense that my muscles ached for several days. Again, It wasn't real, but real enough to have been soaked in sweat from head to toe. Never happened again.

You're experience isn't unique...I mean that in a positive sense.

 

Once more we come to what is real...what seperates that feeling within and makes it less real than a feeling of the outside world?

 

Some might argue that the inner feeling is far more important.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Silent Answers

[3bob]

no need to feel torn Bindi...although one just saying that doesn't mean much during a tsunami  of mind...

 

another analogy:  if mind itself is like a pool of water and it goes still then it can be seen through all the way to the depths, and that which does such seeing is not the water it once "thought" it was because of all the crashing ripples it was caught-up in seeing before.

 

Anyway, you are getting a big mix of information from many people about several religions, and or ways and that can leave one feeling torn,  I suggest you back off on the mixtures and try sticking with just one school  of inspirational teachers and doctrines for awhile and thus get a clear conceptual handle through same - for all of the true ways are like vehicles which will help you along.   

[dwai]

Dwai,

Is that your teacher?

 

He is pulling the same stuff that other neo-advaitists do. He downgrades 'enlightenment'.. there are no special powers, all you will get is peace of mind. No Bliss. Only peace of mind?

 

haha Ramesh is not my teacher. I find I can resonate with his teaching though. My teacher doesn't talk about non-duality. He shows by helping us experience. Powers are a side effect - he has them and he shows us a bit from time to time.

Well, what about the spiritual accomplishments that the spiritual greats have demonstrated throughout history? Healing, manifesting forms (loaves and fish), bi or multi location, footprints in stone, knowing other persons' minds and personal history. It is like Alan Wallace said, "no siddhis, no realization". The minute someone whom sells books starts to downplay enlightenment, I see red flags.

 

According to the Buddhists, the natural state is great bliss. Siddhis are part and parcel of realization. Nearly every Theravada Teacher acknowledges that the fourth jhana will grant specific powers such as knowing past lives, the minds of others, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not after siddhis for siddhis sake, but they are markers along the way. They are also a form of inspiration and help diminish the ego/rational mind.

 

So, needless to say, I don't think much of "Advaita Master Ramesh Balsekar". Sorry. .

Haha Siddhis will not take you to advaita. They happen but those are not important. Really, what do Siddhis enable us to do? Advaita is where there is no duality. What that means is very important to know. That is what Jnana yoga is about...

[3bob]

Powers as the goal lead away from enlightenment... a self inductive-reactance type of law will come into effect if ego try's to take over the inviolate.  The secret so to speak is that  - Spiritual Truth gets us, thus one does not get or take it for one's own designs....  there is also that Christian saying (which is widely applicable even if said religion tends to be dualistic) along the lines of, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all things shall be added unto you" as needed or implied.

Edited August 8, 2015 by 3bob

[Tibetan_Ice]

Karl, I have no idea where you are coming from. This finiteness you speak of reminds me of the substrate consciousness. Ever hear of it?

 

From "Mind in the Balance - Alan Wallace:

 

THE SUBSTRATE CONSCIOUSNESS

 

By engaging in the practice described in the preceding chapter, you may bring previously unconscious memories, fantasies, and emotions of all kinds into the light of awareness. Our common experience of our mental states is heavily edited and processed by the habitual structuring of the mind, so we tend to experience thoughts and emotions that we regard as “normal.”

 

But in this training the light of consciousness, like a probe into deep space, illuminates formerly unseen mental processes that seem utterly alien to our past experience and sense of personal identity. As we consciously expose the deep space of the mind through thousands of hours of observation, we penetrate into normally hidden dimensions that are more chaotic, levels where the order and structure of the human psyche are just beginning to emerge. Strata upon strata of mental processes previously concealed within the subconscious manifest, until finally the mind comes to rest in its natural state, from which both conscious and normally subconscious events arise. This is an exercise in true depth psychology, in which we observe “core samples” of the subconscious mind, cutting across many layers of accumulated conceptual structuring.7

 

The culmination of this meditative process is the experience of the substrate consciousness (alaya-vijñana), which is characterized by three essential traits: bliss, luminosity, and nonconceptuality. Bliss does not arise in response to any sensory stimulus, for the physical senses are withdrawn, as if one were deeply asleep. Nor does it arise in dependence upon pleasant thoughts or mental images, for such mental activities have become dormant. Rather, it appears to be an innate quality of the mind when it has settled in its natural state, beyond the disturbing influences of conscious and unconscious mental activity. 8

 

The luminosity of the substrate consciousness is one of the two defining characteristics of consciousness, and it is that which illuminates all the appearances to the mind. Nonconceptuality in this context is experienced as a deep stillness. But it is not absolutely devoid of thoughts, for this dimension of consciousness is subliminally structured by concepts. When you achieve such attentional balance, you have achieved shamatha, and you are able to remain there effortlessly for at least four hours, with your physical senses fully withdrawn and your mental awareness highly stable and alert.

 

The nineteenth-century Tibetan contemplative Düdjom Lingpa described this process as follows: “Someone with an experience of vacuity and clarity who directs his attention inward may bring a stop to all external appearances and come to a state in which he believes there are no appearances or thoughts. This experience of radiance from which one dares not part is the substrate consciousness.” 9

 

Tibetan contemplatives believe that the experience of the substrate consciousness yields insights into the birth and evolution of the human psyche. Drawing an analogy from modern biology, this may be portrayed as a kind of “stem consciousness.” Much as a stem cell differentiates itself in relation to specific biochemical environments, such as a brain or a liver, the substrate consciousness becomes differentiated with respect to specific species. This is the earliest state of consciousness of a human embryo, and it gradually takes on the distinctive characteristics of a specific human psyche as it is conditioned and structured by a wide range of physiological and, later, cultural influences. The substrate consciousness is not inherently human, for it is also the ground state of consciousness of all other sentient creatures. The human mind emerges from this dimension of awareness, which is prior to and more fundamental than the human, conceptual duality of mind and matter.10

 

Both the mind and all experiences of matter are said to come from this luminous space, which is undifferentiated in terms of any distinct sense of subject and object. So the hypothesis of the substrate consciousness rejects both Cartesian dualism, as explained earlier, and the belief that the universe is exclusively physical. Moreover, it may be put to the test of experience, regardless of one’s ideological commitments and theoretical assumptions. A contemplative may deliberately probe this dimension of consciousness through the practice described previously, in which discursive thoughts become dormant and all appearances of oneself, others, one’s body, and one’s environment vanish. At this point, as in sleeping and dying, the mind is drawn inward and the physical senses become dormant. What remains is a state of radiant, clear consciousness that is the basis for the emergence of all appearances to an individual’s mind stream. All phenomena appearing to sensory and mental perception are imbued with this clarity and appear to this empty, luminous substrate consciousness.

 

Although Buddhism is commonly characterized as refuting the existence of a soul, this description of the substrate consciousness may sound as if the concept of a soul is being reintroduced. Whether or not this is the case depends on how you define the soul. The type of self, or soul, refuted in early Buddhism is characterized as unchanging, unitary, and independent. The substrate consciousness, as described in the Great Perfection tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, consists of a stream of arising and passing moments of consciousness, so it is not unchanging or unitary. Furthermore, it is conditioned by various influences, including preceding moments of awareness within the continuum of the substrate consciousness, so it is not independent. Nor is this dimension of consciousness specifically human; rather, it is the subtle continuum of awareness out of which the human mind emerges during the formation of the embryo and into which the mind dissolves during the dying process.

 

Each time you fall into dreamless sleep, your mind dissolves into the substrate consciousness, which is repeatedly aroused into creating one dream after another, each of which dissolves back into this ground awareness, until eventually you awaken and your waking mind reemerges. When you first experience this blissful, luminous, conceptually silent state, you may easily conclude that this is nirvana or the ultimate nature of consciousness.

 

But Tibetan contemplatives have been insisting for centuries that it is simply the relative ground state of awareness and experiencing it brings about no permanent liberation of the mind. Panchen Lozang Chökyi Gyaltsen, for instance, comments that the experience of this dimension of consciousness enables one to recognize the phenomenal nature of the mind.11

 

Düdjom Lingpa likewise asserts that this experience provides insight into the relative nature of the mind, which is not to be confused with the “clear light awareness” or any other exalted state of realization. Indeed, if you get stuck there, advancing no further in your meditative practice, it will not bring you one step closer to enlightenment.12 Understandably, modern scientists have not yet replicated this discovery. As long as methods of investigating the mind are limited to the materialistic approaches of studying the brain and behavior, our understanding of the mind will necessarily be materialistic. And the deeper dimensions of consciousness that become evident only with the achievement of inwardly directed samadhi will remain unexplored and unknown. For the materialistic scientist, the existence of the substrate consciousness belongs to the realm of metaphysics. However, for the contemplative adept, it is an empirical fact that can be discovered only with highly refined, stable, vivid attention directed, like a powerful telescope, to the inner space of the mind.

 

THE SUBSTRATE

 

When one’s mind has settled in its natural state, the empty space of which one is aware is called the substrate (alaya).13 Describing it is difficult because, at this point, due to the relative absence of thoughts of “I” and “not I,” there is no distinct experience of a division between subject and object. You now have a “subjective” awareness of the substrate that appears as your object—a kind of vacuum into which all mental contents have temporarily subsided. The mind may now be likened to a luminously transparent snow globe in which all the agitated particles of mental activities have come to rest. The substrate is permeated with a field of creative energy known in the Mahayana tradition as the jiva, or life force. This energetic continuum, rather than the brain, is considered to be the actual repository of memories, mental traits, behavioral patterns, and even physical marks from one life to the next.14

 

All sensory and mental appearances emerge from the space of the substrate, and it has the capacity to generate alternative realities, such as dreamscapes while asleep. When the substrate manifests in dreamless sleep, it is generally unobservable, and its existence can be inferred only on the basis of waking experience. But with thousands of hours of continuous training in developing mental and physical relaxation, together with attentional stability and vividness, it is said that one may directly, vividly ascertain this inner space and observe how mental and sensory phenomena emerge from it in dependence upon a wide range of psychological and physical influences. When the mind of a contemplatively untrained person dissolves into the substrate at death, the person experiences a brief state of oblivion.

 

But a person who has become familiar with the substrate by probing it with samadhi may cross the threshold of death consciously, vividly recognize the substrate for what it is, and thereby die lucidly.

 

Düdjom Lingpa writes in this regard, “The true substrate is something immaterial, devoid of thought, a space-like vacuity and blankness in which appearances are suspended. Know that you come to that state in deep, dreamless sleep, when you faint, and when you are dead.”

 

So that is the ground or basis that we should be discussing. Note: there is no "I" in the substrate, there is no ego.

Because you say that consciousness is finite, are you talking about the substrate consciousness?

[Kubba]

Did that 'popping out of the body' thing when I was a teenager. An early life reading Carlos Castaneda books got me to try that one. Apparently you need to anchor by putting a foot or hand in a bowl of water-which like any teenager I ignored. Result was a frantic few minutes trying to get back into my body and feeling like I was dying. Was it real ? No, but it certainly felt like it.

 

Then another time a few years ago experiencing an energy surge beginning at my feet and travelling up my body. It was like drowning and I was rigid with fear. A voice in my head said 'let go, let it happen' at which point I relaxed enough for the surge to pass up and over my head. I had been so tense that my muscles ached for several days. Again, It wasn't real, but real enough to have been soaked in sweat from head to toe. Never happened again.

This is blessing. Being relieved from blocks. From my experience - most profound spiritual experiences happend after crossing this barier. This sensations as if passing out last for some time then theyre gone. They might repeat many time. Intensive sweating can come, shots of hormonal resposes. Fears are just contractions of different body regions.

For example shame is contracting lower spine and anus-genital area(when we are children around 5 years old i guess we often touch these region for stimulation and parents when see it take our hands and tell us storries about it that trigger the feeling of shame, then we feel thes areas as something that need to be covered.

These "crossing the barrier of fear" experiences can trigger partial or full kundalini rising wich are feelt as upward movement of energy. Important is not to freak out, nor make story about it but to be ready for everything and keep calm. Under these fears there is a lot of energy bounded. Most tied energy is within the abdomen area- when this is untied than it is like sitting on a ticking bomb. Yogis are telling it that it is the key to awakening.

There is a purpose in old idiom that only the devil fears of saint water...

Edited August 8, 2015 by Kubba

[Bindi]

I'm wondering about the role of ajna chakra consciousness in relation to 'mind' and 'ego', I remember many years ago for a brief while I was aware of 2 levels of mind, one the normal mind and another which ran at about half the speed, it was like 'slow deep mind', calm and clear thinking, I wonder if this second level might be ajna chakra consciousness

[dwai]

I'm wondering about the role of ajna chakra consciousness in relation to 'mind' and 'ego', I remember many years ago for a brief while I was aware of 2 levels of mind, one the normal mind and another which ran at about half the speed, it was like 'slow deep mind', calm and clear thinking, I wonder if this second level might be ajna chakra consciousness

This second mind is actually non thinking...it is pure clarity imho. And it is always there of course. When the monkey mind becomes too noisy then the clear mind/spiritual mind is obscured.

[3bob]

So TI which concept is it for you: Self or no-self?  

 

I can relate to both but Sanatana Dharma is the summation for me

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'm wondering about the role of ajna chakra consciousness in relation to 'mind' and 'ego', I remember many years ago for a brief while I was aware of 2 levels of mind, one the normal mind and another which ran at about half the speed, it was like 'slow deep mind', calm and clear thinking, I wonder if this second level might be ajna chakra consciousness

Hi Bindi,

  In Paramahansa Yogananda's Yoga, the third eye is a construct that spans from the medulla to the region between the eyebrows. As such, it could be said to be very close to the 'ego'.  Yogananda says that the medulla is the 'mouth of God'. 

 

  I do not view the third eye or ajna as a level of consciousness so much as a bridge between different levels of consciousness. 

 

  It is said that with the third eye, you can pull up any other chakra and view it. For me, the third eye projects images towards the brows, but you can also reverse the sight and look inward with it. 

 

  Perhaps, as you mention, there are two levels of mind, one normal and one slower. But maybe, there are more than just those two. Gurudeva, in his book "Merging with Shiva" (love him), talks about the conscious, sub-conscious, super conscious and super sub-conscious. 

 

This is an excellent book, which I've read a few times.. 

 

https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva

 

What you've said about 'slow mind' reminded me of a time when I was performing my Butta Shudhi Mantra during regular meditations. It is a very long mantra, over 100 words long, in Sanskrit (I learned the pronounciation from a recording).

 

I was repeating the mantra when  suddenly, it became super easy to repeat the mantra. It was like a super-consciousness took over and it was shear delight to repeat the mantra. The words were crystal clear and I could recite (silently) the whole mantra in a split second, over and over again.  I have never understood completely how that could happen, only that perhaps I was starting to gain control over some subconscious or super conscious mental processes.  So it wasn't a 'slow mind' but a very fast mind. 

 

Lately, during my prayers before my meditation sessions, if I pray from the heart, this wonderful eloquent voice comes up from the heart and up into my head. The voice is very clear, bright, super intelligent, has a vocabulary that I would die for and is quite an interesting phenomenon. When the voice comes out, I just sit back and listen to it. When it first started coming out it kind of scared me because I thought I might have been possessed or something. But now I realize that the heart is in fact a superior intellect, super intelligent. You need only open the channel from the heart to the third eye and then let it speak in order to realize that. Wonderful phenomenon.. 

 

[3bob]

TI, there you go again not unlike me in jumping back and forth from Buddhism to Hinduism, I'd ask again, which is the summation for you since I don't think I heard you say it?  Sure, we can appreciate, recognize and see common ground in both and share with others and with both camps to an "x"degree,  but at some point one or the other has to be taken as our baseline, unless we claim to start a Bud-Hin variation of our own.

 

Hi Bindi,

  In Paramahansa Yogananda's Yoga, the third eye is a construct that spans from the medulla to the region between the eyebrows. As such, it could be said to be very close to the 'ego'.  Yogananda says that the medulla is the 'mouth of God'. 

 

  I do not view the third eye or ajna as a level of consciousness so much as a bridge between different levels of consciousness. 

 

  It is said that with the third eye, you can pull up any other chakra and view it. For me, the third eye projects images towards the brows, but you can also reverse the sight and look inward with it. 

 

  Perhaps, as you mention, there are two levels of mind, one normal and one slower. But maybe, there are more than just those two. Gurudeva, in his book "Merging with Shiva" (love him), talks about the conscious, sub-conscious, super conscious and super sub-conscious. 

 

This is an excellent book, which I've read a few times.. 

[Bindi]

I'd like to see a Hin-Dao-Christ variation 

[Tibetan_Ice]

TI, there you go again not unlike me in jumping back and forth from Buddhism to Hinduism, I'd ask again, which is the summation for you since I don't think I heard you say it? Sure, we can appreciate, recognize and see common ground in both and share with others and with both camps to an "x"degree, but at some point one or the other has to be taken as our baseline, unless we claim to start a Bud-Hin variation of our own.

I have been seeking for 45 years: Casteneda, yoga, Catholicism, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, kriya yoga, new age, Robert Monroe, Rosicrucians, Self Realization Fellowship, raja yoga, AYP, Buddhism, Alan Wallace, Dhyanyogi, Sri Anandi Ma, kundalini, Samuel Sagan (Opening the Third Eye), Kunlun, astral projection, Eckart Tolley, Mark Griffin, Ajahn Brahm, hypnotism, channeling, gazing, CNN, And more... I've also read hundreds of books along the way.

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi was my guru in my previous life, when I was a Hindu.

 

This August makes 7 years that I have been meditating/practicing at least twice a day, every day. (I've missed three days in all due to no fault of my own during that whole time). I've logged over 3000 hours on my Insight Timer!

 

I have never believed that one method of seeking God or no God is right and that all the others are wrong. Each religion/teaching/method has merits for the individual seeker because all seekers are different and at differing stages of evolution. If I had to choose, I would pick all of them.

 

Even if I was enlightened, which I am not, I would say each piece played a part in my development (or lack thereof) so I owe a debt of gratitude for the lessons learned and the many varied experiences.

 

How about you? What is your personal history?

Edited August 10, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Karl]

So Karl, while Buddhism can have abstract and difficult to handle concepts to the 9 power of blowing the mind to the max,  I suggest remembering and coming back to the following and key issue: 

 

Quote from Barbara O'Brien

 

"The "earth witness" Buddha

 

  earthwitnessmudra1.jpg

 

is one of the most common iconic images of Buddhism. It depicts the Buddha sitting in meditation with his left hand, palm upright, in his lap, and his right hand touching the earth. This represents the moment of the Buddha's enlightenment.

Just before the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, realized enlightenment, it is said the demon Mara attacked him with armies of monsters to frighten Siddhartha from his seat under the bodhi tree.

 

But the about-to-be Buddha did not move. Then Mara claimed the seat of enlightenment for himself, saying his spiritual accomplishments were greater than Siddhartha's. Mara's monstrous soldiers cried out together, "I am his witness!" Mara challenged Siddhartha--who will speak for you?

Then Siddhartha reached out his right hand to touch the earth, and the earth itself roared, "I bear you witness!" Mara disappeared. And as the morning star rose in the sky, Siddhartha Gautama realized enlightenment and became a Buddha.

The Earth Witness Mudra

A mudra in Buddhist iconography is a body posture or gesture with special meaning. The earth witness mudra is also called the Bhumi-sparsha ("gesture of touching the earth") mudra. This mudra represents unshakability or steadfastness. The Dhyani Buddha Akshobhya also is associated with the earth witness mudra because he was immovable in keeping a vow never to feel anger or disgust at others.

The mudra also symbolizes the union of skillful means (upaya), symbolized by the right hand touching the earth, and wisdom (prajna), symbolized by the left hand on the lap in a meditation position.

 

Confirmed by the Earth

I think the earth witness story tells us something else very fundamental about Buddhism. The founding stories of most religions involve gods and angels from heavenly realms bearing scriptures and prophecies. But the enlightenment of the Buddha, realized through his own effort, was confirmed by the earth.

Of course, some stories about the Buddha mention gods and heavenly beings. Yet the Buddha did not ask for help from heavenly beings. He asked the earth. Religious historian Karen Armstrong wrote in her book, Buddha (Penguin Putnam, 2001, p. 92), about the earth witness mudra:

"It not only symbolizes Gotama's rejection of Mara's sterile machismo, but makes a profound point that a Buddha does indeed belong to the world. The Dhamma is exacting, but it is not against nature. . . . The man or woman who seeks enlightenment is in tune with the fundamental structure of the universe."

No Separation

Buddhism teaches that nothing exists independently. Instead, all phenomena and all beings are caused to exist by other phenomena and beings. The existence of all things is interdependent. Our existence as human beings depends on earth, air, water, and other forms of life. Just as our existence depends on and is conditioned by those things, they also are conditioned by our existence.

The way we think of ourselves as being separate from earth and air and nature is part of our essential ignorance, according to Buddhist teaching. The many different things -- rocks, flowers, babies, and also asphalt and car exhaust -- are expressions of us, and we are expressions of them. In a sense, when the earth confirmed the Buddha's enlightenment, the earth was confirming itself, and the Buddha was confirming himself."

 

Separation is another equivocation. Things have separate identity regardless of their common cause. While the owl sits on the tree, it is dependent on the tree being there in the first place, but the tree and owl are not the same, they have independent identity. The universe of things has identity but it doesn't have a cause because it is the universe of things-totality.

 

I don't know about demons, monsters, touching the sky suggests a lack of scientific understanding, roaring could be an earthquake. Anyway, it's a nice story, but beyond that, well, Buddah was a man and all men are fallible and mortal.

[Kubba]

Hi Bindi,

In Paramahansa Yogananda's Yoga, the third eye is a construct that spans from the medulla to the region between the eyebrows. As such, it could be said to be very close to the 'ego'. Yogananda says that the medulla is the 'mouth of God'.

 

I do not view the third eye or ajna as a level of consciousness so much as a bridge between different levels of consciousness.

 

It is said that with the third eye, you can pull up any other chakra and view it. For me, the third eye projects images towards the brows, but you can also reverse the sight and look inward with it.

 

Perhaps, as you mention, there are two levels of mind, one normal and one slower. But maybe, there are more than just those two. Gurudeva, in his book "Merging with Shiva" (love him), talks about the conscious, sub-conscious, super conscious and super sub-conscious.

 

This is an excellent book, which I've read a few times..

 

https://www.himalayanacademy.com/view/merging-with-siva

 

What you've said about 'slow mind' reminded me of a time when I was performing my Butta Shudhi Mantra during regular meditations. It is a very long mantra, over 100 words long, in Sanskrit (I learned the pronounciation from a recording).

 

I was repeating the mantra when suddenly, it became super easy to repeat the mantra. It was like a super-consciousness took over and it was shear delight to repeat the mantra. The words were crystal clear and I could recite (silently) the whole mantra in a split second, over and over again. I have never understood completely how that could happen, only that perhaps I was starting to gain control over some subconscious or super conscious mental processes. So it wasn't a 'slow mind' but a very fast mind.

 

Lately, during my prayers before my meditation sessions, if I pray from the heart, this wonderful eloquent voice comes up from the heart and up into my head. The voice is very clear, bright, super intelligent, has a vocabulary that I would die for and is quite an interesting phenomenon. When the voice comes out, I just sit back and listen to it. When it first started coming out it kind of scared me because I thought I might have been possessed or something. But now I realize that the heart is in fact a superior intellect, super intelligent. You need only open the channel from the heart to the third eye and then let it speak in order to realize that. Wonderful phenomenon..

 

This quick mind takes place when there is a very little or no informations from other chakras or psychic centers. When you walk in this state you feel yourself as if moving much more quicker then normally - it is amasing, everything is so quick for you and sharp, this one operates more on senses.

 

Then the super mind is more connected with heart, it seems slow, but can reach very deep informations and I experienced it as an actuall body of self inquiry and discrimination for what is not true, also theough it some insights come. Whatever you ask to this mind you will get the answer and you will be amased with its precission. He is volnurable, a magnificent giant that dont know anything about selishness, yet understands everything, pure knowing.

 

Then there is someting that can be called a lower mind which is basically the one that is responsible for dealing with dangers and works like an immunite system for external world. Whenever there is a noice or sth going on around you, this mind fires up and resarch the enviroment.

While awakening of this region you kind of feel yourself as a monkey, which is actually funny experience - you almost feel yourself as if in a moment you will start to make this noice as monkeys make when alerted.

 

Then there is a mind which carries the imaginary self which is basically oriented only on itself and causes problems and is fixated on many internal personas. I dont know the terminology but seems that this one covers the whole body with its centers, it is basically your body including subtle layers... It has its thinking process wich works in the forehead but it is just like the tip of the ice mountain - it is actually everywhere. People often confuse that insights or realisations happen through thinking proces of a forehead, but it is just the part of the mind that will transform- understanding happends through whole the body and it transform it.

Throug each chakra sensing ability you preceive the world around with all nuances, your body starts to become, as Adyashanti said one big sensing organ.

 

But this nomenclature isnt good cause they all are working symultaneously and each has its own function, and none is less important then other.

 

The knowledge of them is greater with expansion of prana, as if they have their own layers and divercity that havent seen in any book, maybe cause its impossible to put this grateness into words.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Kubba

[Apech]

Take your reason to the furthest it will go, and then go further is my advice.

 

...then the flight of the alone to the alone.

[Karl]

...then the flight of the alone to the alone.

 

Is that a return trip because I wouldn't want to taxi down the runway just to go straight back to the terminal from which I had just embarked.

 

Is the climate nice in Alone ? Are the women pretty, the men handsome, the wine strong, the music loud and the food delicious ?