Qiqong practice and storms / thunderstorms ?

[GreytoWhite]

Infolad you may want to reconsider your hard stance on this. Some of the most respected people in the qigong community have commented to the contrary of what you've said. Ya Mu has explained his system's stance on practicing during a storm and why. Simply repeating yourself gains you little ground. You may want to admit that there are systems quite different than yours and others may well be able to benefit from practice during a storm. Daoism is a wide and varied thing with more nuances than you may be exposed.

 

Can you explain WHY this is so bad in your system with a few more words? "Electricity is bad! Mmmkay?" is not really a sufficient amount of information in my opinion.

[Infolad1]

Infolad you may want to reconsider your hard stance on this. Some of the most respected people in the qigong community have commented to the contrary of what you've said. Ya Mu has explained his system's stance on practicing during a storm and why. Simply repeating yourself gains you little ground. You may want to admit that there are systems quite different than yours and others may well be able to benefit from practice during a storm. Daoism is a wide and varied thing with more nuances than you may be exposed.

 

Can you explain WHY this is so bad in your system with a few more words? "Electricity is bad! Mmmkay?" is not really a sufficient amount of information in my opinion.

Hi GreytoWhite.

 

I've already given my reasons, which were more than "Electricity is bad! Mmmkay?".

 

This isn't a debate for me. 

 

Obviously there are MANY systems that are different out there. I don't get into that conversation.

It's both pointless, & useless. If your system works for you, and others, have a party.

 

Basic energetics. A lightning storm is a chaotic disturbance in environmental Qi. You take that into you when you practice during a storm. Not good for your long term cultivation. Balance is the goal, not chaos. The explanation doesn't get more complicated than that.

 

So anyone giving out advice contrary to Basic Qigong 101 energetics, I call into question both their, and their system's knowledge base on these matters.

 

If they're not generating any real juice, then they might not have an issue. So there's always that possibility.

 

People are always cavalier about these matters, until someone gets injured. You folks saying it's okay to practice either indoors, or outdoors during lightning storms, please officially go on record saying so, and that'll be the end of it, as far as I'm concerned.

 

ALL cultivation systems are nuanced GreytoWhite. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that they ALL have the same energetic foundation, because everyone has the same physical, and energetic anatomy.

 

The human body can only move a certain number of ways, but with thousands of techniques within those limited movement patterns. Alchemical transformations only happen one basic way, but with many roads to getting there.

 

At the end of the day, there are no secrets, no unknowns, once you understand the basic principles of these systems, and the science behind them. As I've said before, I've been doing this for over 15 years. I can express all of the primary jings. I've gone through over half of the cultivation process. I lift over 120lbs. In Iron Crotch Nei-Gong. Most importantly, I've taught others to do the same. I've been trained by a number of teachers, Including a top, recognized Grandmaster, from an authentic lineage of Taoist priests, if folks want to go there, regarding my bonafides. My Bio is in my first post. Everything I talk about, I can actually do. I'd say I've been exposed to quite a bit GreytoWhite.   But you're entitled to your opinion. Everyone Is. 

 

As I always say, people can make up their own minds. If they don't think what I said has any credence, so be it. If you

consider what I said to be repetitive, again so be it. 

 

But from my personal experience, In addition to what I've been taught by multiple teachers, I wouldn't advise it. I want new folks to take these points into consideration, before hastily jumping into a potentially deadly practice. 

 

The only reason I even commented on this, is that I don't want to see anyone get hurt. 

 

And from a practical, common sense level, regarding outdoor training during lightning storms:

 

"According to the NOAA (The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), over the last 20 years, the United States averaged 51 annual lightning strike fatalities, placing it in the second position, just behind floods for deadly weather. In the US, between 9% and 10% of those struck die, for an average of 40 to 50 deaths per year (28 in 2008)."

 

Your odds of getting hit?:

 

"The chance of an average person living in the US being struck by lightning in a given year is estimated at 1 in 960,000, while the chance of being struck by lightning in a lifetime is 1 in 12,000 (estimated lifespan of 80 years)."

 

So for you outdoor lightning cultivators, if you didn't before, you've now got all of the statistics regarding being hit by lightning. You want to keep playing that lottery, have fun with that.

 

This is my last word on any of this. As I said, this isn't a debate for me. I also don't have the inclination, or time, for a pissing contest. I'm posting this reply, as I always do, for educational purposes. I'm sincerely amazed that this is even a conversation on here.

 

I hope this further clarified my position, GreytoWhite.

 

Good fortune to all of you, In your work. 

 

Cheers!

[Aetherous]

A lightning storm is a chaotic disturbance in environmental Qi.

 

...

 

I'm sincerely amazed that this is even a conversation on here.

 

A normal part of nature is a chaotic disturbance in nature? Perhaps...

 

Do you feel chaos or disturbed when you listen to thunder? At least personally, I feel the opposite. It's calming, empowering, and clarifying.

 

Do Yijing hexagrams dealing with thunder indicate that its energy is disturbed? I'm not an expert in that subject, but from what I read in the yijing, it can be a beneficial thing/symbol...and what follows a storm is stillness, hexagram 52. Do you know what the Huangdi Neijing says about the energy of storms? I think that thunder is said to be related to the heart zang, in chapter 5 of the Su Wen...perhaps there is more contained in that book. Have you never come across a tradition that either says its cultivation is related to thunder and lightning, or otherwise heavenly energies, or that it's beneficial to practice the methods during those times? Those schools exist.

 

If we're talking a specific style of qigong which depends upon certain weather...like a gentle breeze, blue skies with puffy white clouds, good feng shui, etc...that is one thing. Or if it's just about helping people not get struck by lightning, that's also good. But another thing is to claim to be an expert teacher on all things related to qi and the Dao, and claim that there is one energetic truth to the body that applies to every system...when in reality, people have the opposite experience here.

 

Not to make you feel unwelcome at the forum by any means...please continue to share your personal experience and opinions. If everyone agreed, there would be no discussion.

[Infolad1]

A normal part of nature is a chaotic disturbance in nature? Perhaps...

 

Do you feel chaos or disturbed when you listen to thunder? At least personally, I feel the opposite. It's calming, empowering, and clarifying.

 

Do Yijing hexagrams dealing with thunder indicate that its energy is disturbed? I'm not an expert in that subject, but from what I read in the yijing, it can be a beneficial thing/symbol...and what follows a storm is stillness, hexagram 52. Do you know what the Huangdi Neijing says about the energy of storms? I think that thunder is said to be related to the heart zang, in chapter 5 of the Su Wen...perhaps there is more contained in that book. Have you never come across a tradition that either says its cultivation is related to thunder and lightning, or otherwise heavenly energies, or that it's beneficial to practice the methods during those times? Those schools exist.

 

If we're talking a specific style of qigong which depends upon certain weather...like a gentle breeze, blue skies with puffy white clouds, good feng shui, etc...that is one thing. Or if it's just about helping people not get struck by lightning, that's also good. But another thing is to claim to be an expert teacher on all things related to qi and the Dao, and claim that there is one energetic truth to the body that applies to every system...when in reality, people have the opposite experience here.

 

Not to make you feel unwelcome at the forum by any means...please continue to share your personal experience and opinions. If everyone agreed, there would be no discussion.

I never claimed to be an expert on all things Qi Aetherous. Please don't attempt to put words In my mouth.

 

What I said is that I've had enough experience with these matters to know the basics. If you're claiming to have a different

experience, so be it. I'm relating mine.

 

We're not talking about thunder Aetherous, we're discussing lightning. In the I Ching, that's the 51st hexagram, shocking. Chen doubled can correspond to both emotional, and physical shocks, kundalini, etc. Depends on the situation.

 

"The stillness following the storm" is a mnemonic, that's not the meaning of the 52nd hexagram. It's just imagery to remember the meaning, and nuances of the hexagram. The 52nd hexagram represents deep reflection, meditation, and understanding. All of the hexagrams correspond to physical, mental, and spiritual occurrences, depending on the context of the situation, & stress lines.

 

I've worked I Ching for close to 20 years. Actual consistent usage, not theory. It's an amazing device.

 

They're schools that advocate working with thunder, and lightning. That's cool. I'm aware of those. There are also schools that advocate eating the guru's feces at certain stages of cultivation. That advocate stealing the energy from virgin girls, and boys, to maintain their youth. 

 

There are a lot of schools, and systems, that say a LOT of things. There have been many deviations over the centuries.

 

Whether you decide to abide by any of these dictates is your own choice. I choose not to.

 

Jing/Qi/Shen are different aspects of Spirit. Spirit is from the latin spirare, which means to breathe.

 

We're all sharing the same breath (spirit), because we're all living on the same planet, in the same atmosphere, on both a global, and local level. As such, we're effected by things occurring in the atmosphere, ionosphere, magnetosphere, etc., 

again, both locally, and globally.

 

So If you want to absorb the Qi of disturbances In these environments, have fun with that. 

 

If everyone needed to agree 100% in order to socialize, no one would have any friends! LOL! We're just talking. you're relating your experiences, I'm relating mine. No harm, no foul.

 

I've given my viewpoint on all of this. your mileage may vary.

 

Cheers!

[Aetherous]

I never claimed to be an expert on all things Qi Aetherous. Please don't attempt to put words In my mouth.

 

What I said is that I've had enough experience with these matters to know the basics.

 

You only know the basics of what you've been taught...there is more to learn!

[Infolad1]

You only know the basics of what you've been taught...there is more to learn!

You don't know me. How could you even begin to make such a claim? SMH

 

And when I said basics, I meant an understanding of basic Qigong. I'm close to 20 years beyond basic though. 

 

Cheers!

[Aetherous]

Of course I don't know you...but I do know that you don't have experience in the basics of every system, to ascertain that your knowledge is universally applicable. How could you even begin to make such a claim?

[Infolad1]

Aetherous, you're actually betraying a lack of understanding of the history behind all of these practices.

 

Human energetics, are human energetics. Period. The human body is the same. Period. The process of transformation is the same. Techniques, cultural background, & conditioning are the filters.

 

I've studied Taoism, Judeo-Chrisitianity, Kabbalah, Buddhism, Ancient Egyptian, African based systems, & shamanism. 

 

The process is the same. Just the nomenclature, cultural reference,  techniques (technology), and level of understanding

changes. It's non-denominational.

 

Now unless you know about some human mutants I don''t know about, then yes, the basic process is the same. 

 

You don't have to know all of the various techniques, as long as you know the basic principles. Most systems come about due to ego. Someone wanting to put their name on something to feel important, and get paid.

 

Cultivation actually isn't that complicated. It's as complicated as you want it to be.

 

I'd suggest checking out the works of William Bodri, Nan Huai-Chin (Especially his "History of Chinese Zen"), George W. Carey, Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Lu Kuan Yu (Chrles Luk) and Sir John Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon), to start.

 

Get an understanding of acupuncture, 5 element theory, & Cross Cultural Astrology, & Cosmology (Ancient Egyptian, Indus Kush, Vedic, Ugaritic, Sumerian, Chinese, African, etc.). Throw In some theurgy while you're at It.

 

Learn an "Internal" style (Tai Chi Quan, Baguazhang, etc.). Learn the mechanics. Learn the energetics. Learn to fight with it. Learn to heal with It.

 

Learn the keys to true health, and wellness, to help both yourself, and others.

 

Give yourself 10 to 20 years to absorb it all, do it, and be able to see the correspondences. Experience the transformations, to take it beyond Intelllectualism, and "What my Sifu/Master/ Grand Poobah" said).

 

I've done all of the above. that's how I KNOW that what I've learned, applied, & now teach, is universally applicable.

 

I've also been very fortunate to have excellent, Internationally recognized teachers. Always helps.

 

A number of people have done this, besides myself. A few of them are on this forum

 

To start you off, I'd suggest checking out Bodri's "What is Enlightenment?" , and "The Little Book of Hercules: The Physical Aspects of the Spiritual Path". He gives an excellent overview of all of this. You can get his "Little Book of Meditation", for application work.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

[Ya Mu]

More fun lightning facts:

http://io9.com/new-statistics-on-lightning-deaths-in-the-u-s-reveal-w-560760736

 

It appears if you are a male 20-29 you are just...well, statistically susceptible if you like to go out and play in the storms on Saturdays. 

I don't think anyone can understand lightning effects until they have been struck - and I don't advise it - it is not fun and chances are one will not survive. I got struck 30 years ago. I really think that if I hadn't of been practicing qigong for the 15 years prior to the strike I would have been fried. And at the time I actually thought I knew a lot about it.

I guess in my clinical qigong days I saw at least 10 clients with multitudes of problems due to lightning as well as several more clients damaged from electrical shock. BE careful out there!

 

edit: and I forgot to add - don't play soccer on that saturday cause the statistics don't look good

Edited August 12, 2015 by Ya Mu

[Infolad1]

More fun lightning facts:

http://io9.com/new-statistics-on-lightning-deaths-in-the-u-s-reveal-w-560760736

 

It appears if you are a male 20-29 you are just...well, statistically susceptible if you like to go out and play in the storms on Saturdays. 

I don't think anyone can understand lightning effects until they have been struck - and I don't advise it - it is not fun and chances are one will not survive. I got struck 30 years ago. I really think that if I hadn't of been practicing qigong for the 15 years prior to the strike I would have been fried. And at the time I actually thought I knew a lot about it.

I guess in my clinical qigong days I saw at least 10 clients with multitudes of problems due to lightning as well as several more clients damaged from electrical shock. BE careful out there!

 

edit: and I forgot to add - don't play soccer on that saturday cause the statistics don't look good

Great article. Thanks.

 

I love this part:

 

"This chart speaks for itself, but here's what the report had to say:

 

"Possible explanations for [male fatalities far exceeding female fatalities] are that males are unaware of all the dangers associated with lightning, are more likely to be in vulnerable situations, are unwilling to be inconvenienced by the threat of lightning, are in situations that make it difficult to get to a safe place in a timely manner, don't react quickly to the lightning threat, or any combination of these explanations."

NOAA, in so many words: "Men are idiots."

 

LOL! 

 

Never been struck by lightning. Shocked twice by electrical equipment years ago. Wasn't fun either time. Thrown a couple of feet, first time. Left arm went numb, second time. Very fortunate both times, as far as I'm concerned. I respect electricity. 

 

Soccer moms, beware Saturdays!

 

Cheers!

[zerostao]

"What is to reverse the qi flow?"      think backlash

 

"In wind, wearing a scarf is helpful to protect the back of the neck."

 my favorites are my silk air force ones, but, i am a lil nostalgic at times

 

"Give yourself 10 to 20 years to absorb it all"  is 20 years a long time? if absorbed it "all" already what is left to absorb for the next 20 years (and beyond) ?

 

idk abt being hit by lightning being anything special except maybe in wrong place at wrong time. if it is an achievement, then at age 9 i gained that level, dont feel i necessarily understand more now than before but it is an unforgettable experience. i knew i must have been guilty of something for it to have happened   my encounters with 'rods' are equally interesting if not more so

 

"Cheers!"   you buying the next round?

 

^^ to ya'll healers. if you are giving energy to heal someone, is that a cost to your own?

[Aetherous]

is 20 years a long time?

 

Apparently it's really impressive.

[Dharmakaya]

Here is an alternative opinion, and hopefully it doesn't get buried:  I went to a Qi Gong class last summer with Robert Peng (a highly respected teacher), and during the class he mentioned, "Don't practice during thunderstorms, many people have been injured that way.."  He didn't really elaborate, and so, I guess not knowing the risks, I did not heed this advice. 

 

A few days after the class I was back home when the mother of all thunderstorms moved into position above my house.  Coincidentally I really wanted to practice Qi Gong at this moment..  I started doing a practice involving moving qi up and down the central meridian through the Dantiens; from the lower to the middle and back, from the lower to the upper and back, and then from the lower to heaven, and then down to earth and back to the lower.  As I did this, specifically as I sent Qi up to heaven, there was a gigantic lightning strike right close to my house, and I felt the extremely powerful thunderstorm Qi come down into my middle Dantien (heart), and "blow it out".

 

In my experience the middle Dantien or Heart governs who you feel yourself to be.  At any rate, immediately after this event, this heart perception was "blown out", as though it had been overloaded and was now unable to function in a normal or contained capacity.  This feeling went on for about a week until I went on a massive and challenging bike ride (a very strong cardio workout).  That night I felt a big release in my heart area, and my perception returned to normal.  In essence the entrance of thunder Qi had resulted in a major heart energy blockage.

 

Thus it was that I learned the danger of practicing during thunderstorms, as well as gaining experience in the function of the heart/middle Dantien, and experienced the release of a major (and recently imposed) blockage.  Cheers, and I hope this has been interesting to read!