What is the Ego?

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Brian]

My two cents...

 

My ego is that part of me (which is a sub-section of my rational mind which is part of me) which believes it is special and would like to convince me that it is all of me.

 

Rather than seeking to destroy my ego, what seems to be happening is that my perception of "self" is gently expanding to be increasingly less localized, and in this way my inherently "selfish" nature becomes more and more dispersed across "that which is" -- which is the real "all of me" my ego used to find daunting.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Again, from MWS:

 

the fifteenth aphorism

 

The subsubconscious mind, through its natural magnetism, attracts so-called temptations and unhappy conditions. The conscious mind, weakened by harmful practices, falls into this self-created trap. There the Ego seemingly suffers between the subconscious thoughts that created the “sub,” the Ego’s conscious expression, and its subsuperconscious knowing.

 

Guilt is one of the results of this state, also pride and anguish. These are a few of the qualities resulting from the subsubconscious mind. When the sub is controlled through a deep understanding of its inner workings, the Ego, or consciousness, is free from being bound in identifying itself with the mind, body and emotions. The Ego, or consciousness, can then progress toward the dynamic realization of your real Self—beyond the mind, the mind that is under your control. Otherwise, the Ego is caught in the cross-section between the conscious mind and its subsuperconscious knowing, which results in superstition, ideology, fanaticism and an argumentative nature.

 

 

[MooNiNite]

...and which suffers beforehand.

 

You think suffering is required?

[Tibetan_Ice]

You are perfect as you are Bindi. If you choose to do this or that then that's your choice. One way or another it makes no difference, you can't escape you essential being.

So are you saying that all the base qualities such as hatred, pride, jealousy, stupidity, greed, selfishness, are part of perfection?

The general idea in mysticism/spirituality is that there are veils, hinderences, vasanas, blockages etc that prevent us from realizing our true nature and that we should strive to clear or overcome these base traits.

 

Karl you are at odds here with nearly every major teaching (except maybe Neo-advaita).

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Karl]

Well, that just seems meaningless to be honest.

 

If you are trying to get rid of the ego, then surely is it the ego which gives this answer. If the ego cannot be trusted then what ?

Do you see the conundrum. How can you trust what you cannot trust ?

[Karl]

A bathtub needs cleaning regularly. There is no difference with your spirit. Perfect, essential being can't be seen/experienced until you clean all the darkness away.

 

Are you likening my spirit to a bathtub ? Well I've had some insults in my time :-)

[Karl]

So are you saying that all the base qualities such as hatred, pride, jealousy, stupidity, greed, selfishness, are part of perfection?

The general idea in mysticism/spirituality is that there are veils, hinderences, vasanas, blockages etc that prevent us from realizing our true nature and that we should strive to clear or overcome these base traits.

Karl you are at odds here with nearly every major teaching (except maybe Neo-advaita).

 

What about love, joy, happiness, laughter, compassion, empathy ? Are these not part of perfection ?

 

Is your intention to become emotionless in order to realise your true nature ?

 

I don't follow any teachings.

 

 

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

What about love, joy, happiness, laughter, compassion, empathy ? Are these not part of perfection ? Is your intention to become emotionless in order to realise your true nature ? I don't follow any teachings.

 

No, you make up your own 'teachings' and then inflict them on everybody else. 

You've grown a huge "i" thought, ego, and now you are saying that to avoid suffering you should just accept it because it is perfect. 

Makes no sense to me. 

[ChiForce]

No, you make up your own 'teachings' and then inflict them on everybody else. 

You've grown a huge "i" thought, ego, and now you are saying that to avoid suffering you should just accept it because it is perfect. 

Makes no sense to me. 

Hehehhehehe.....  +1000...... 

[Apech]

If you are trying to get rid of the ego, then surely is it the ego which gives this answer. If the ego cannot be trusted then what ? Do you see the conundrum. How can you trust what you cannot trust ?

 

The first sentence doesn't make any sense at all.  Why would you want to trust the ego? 'How can you trust what you cannot trust?' ... eh?

[Karl]

No, you make up your own 'teachings' and then inflict them on everybody else. 

You've grown a huge "i" thought, ego, and now you are saying that to avoid suffering you should just accept it because it is perfect. 

Makes no sense to me. 

 

Then they would be neither better nor worse than any other teachings if that were true. All teachings are egoic works, you have simply chosen to accept one egoic work over another. I choose not of them. All men are fallible, all teachings are fallible.

 

Inflicted or, suffering its all the same thing. It arises in you. Are these not the things you seek to be rid of ? Are your teachings then not proving effective ?

 

I only speak the truth TI, not one iota more or less.

 

 

[ChiForce]

Then they would be neither better nor worse than any other teachings if that were true. All teachings are egoic works, you have simply chosen to accept one egoic work over another. I choose not of them. All men are fallible, all teachings are fallible. Inflicted or, suffering its all the same thing. It arises in you. Are these not the things you seek to be rid of ? Are your teachings then not proving effective ? I only speak the truth TI, not one iota more or less.

Because other proven teaching is usually accompanied by a meditative sign, nimitta, to demonstrate that the cultivator is making progress.  What is your nimitta?  Hot air and a bloated ego, perhaps?  Hahaahaha......  Without realizing and perceiving the nimitta, is all nothing but he said she said.  

[Karl]

The first sentence doesn't make any sense at all.  Why would you want to trust the ego? 'How can you trust what you cannot trust?' ... eh?

 

Who is running the show Is it you or your ego ?

 

If your ego isn't affecting anything then you wouldn't need to be concerned about it would you. It would be benign like a redundant organ.

 

If it is affecting things, then it must rationally affect every decision you make including the one which posits the idea of its own necessary destruction.

 

Is that a logical deduction.

 

[Karl]

Because other proven teaching is usually accompanied by a meditative sign, nimitta, to demonstrate that the cultivator is making progress.  What is your nimitta?  Hot air and a bloated ego, perhaps?  Hahaahaha......  Without realizing and perceiving the nimitta, is all nothing but he said she said.  

 

Has the proven teaching worked ? Have you ended suffering? The tree is known by its fruit.

 

Bloated compared to what ? Is this the bath tub cleaning comparison again. My bath tub is more of an ocean. It's monstrous and terrible thing and you shall bow down before it in terror. Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of ? I coulda been a contender, I coulda been someone....or more like that ?

[Marblehead]

The only thing able to suffer is the ego.

That is a very interesting statement.  I've never considered the concept before.  There may well be something very valid in it.

[ChiForce]

Has the proven teaching worked ? Have you ended suffering? The tree is known by its fruit. Bloated compared to what ? Is this the bath tub cleaning comparison again. My bath tub is more of an ocean. It's monstrous and terrible thing and you shall bow down before it in terror. Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of ? I coulda been a contender, I coulda been someone....or more like that ?

Because other proven teaching is usually accompanied by a meditative sign, nimitta, to demonstrate that the cultivator is making progress..meaning he or she has somewhat killed the ego and much of the early life suffering has been dissolved because of its interdependent/dependent nature of suffering. 

[Apech]

Who is running the show Is it you or your ego ? If your ego isn't affecting anything then you wouldn't need to be concerned about it would you. It would be benign like a redundant organ. If it is affecting things, then it must rationally affect every decision you make including the one which posits the idea of its own necessary destruction. Is that a logical deduction.

 

 

I've read through this four times and it just reads to me like some kind of psycho-babble.  Sorry, but whatever insight you think this amounts to is nothing compared to real teachings such as the Dao, dharma or yoga ... so I don't see really why you think it is important to repeat.

 

each to his own of course.

[Bindi]

 

Does the spirit/soul have need for psychological interpretations?

Persona is the interface that begins to be developed as a child between our needs and desires and the world, it is the way we attempt to manipulate the people around us into giving us what we feel we are lacking. Breaking down this unconsciously developed interface and rebuilding it in accordance with our true spirit is the psychological part of the equation, which then allows our true spirit (which of course has never changed) to be the motivator of our persona.

[Karl]

I've read through this four times and it just reads to me like some kind of psycho-babble. Sorry, but whatever insight you think this amounts to is nothing compared to real teachings such as the Dao, dharma or yoga ... so I don't see really why you think it is important to repeat.

 

each to his own of course.

Insight ? Teachings ?

It isn't insight, it's just a logical corollary based on what you said.

I can't make it any plainer. Your ego must be blocking the signal.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Karl

[Bindi]

You are perfect as you are Bindi. If you choose to do this or that then that's your choice. One way or another it makes no difference, you can't escape you essential being.

 

Karl, you play devil's advocate here, which always ensures a constant flurry of alternative opinion around you. Not quite devil's advocate though, because I think you truly believe what you argue for, which seems to be a pretty typical Western new age fallacy, the idea that 'We are already perfect'.

 

What is it about some people that makes them embrace spiritual 'fast fixes', believing that they can arrive at the destination before even setting foot on the path?

 

 

[ChiForce]

Insight ? Teachings ?

It isn't insight, it's just a logical corollary based on what you said.

I can't make it any plainer. Your ego must be blocking the signal.

Hahahaah...psychobabble is called logic.  No need for your logic.  There is a whole scientific field in psychology and psychotherapy dealing with the ego complex and the state of neurosis.  No need for your logic.  Thanks anyway.....   

[Karl]

Karl, you play devil's advocate here, which always ensures a constant flurry of alternative opinion around you. Not quite devil's advocate though, because I think you truly believe what you argue for, which seems to be a pretty typical Western new age fallacy, the idea that 'We are already perfect'.

 

What is it about some people that makes them embrace spiritual 'fast fixes', believing that they can arrive at the destination before even setting foot on the path?

 

New age. No, I'm just following the form of the discussion which insists that if you get rid of ego you will be perfect. You are as you are that's all and so you are already perfect if you follow that ideology. I don't think there is a perfect or an imperfect, there is no measure for it. We have free will and moral choice, sometimes we make mistakes, that's human.

 

Have I ever said there is a 'fast fix' ? No. I query the fixes that you are suggesting and the lack of logic in your explanations and theories.

 

I'm more than happy to recommend meditation, mindfulness, self inquiry, asanas and many other practices as being useful to overall healing and used then for close on eight years, twice a day every day so I certainly do no decry their value.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Karl

[Karl]

Hahahaah...psychobabble is called logic.  No need for your logic.  There is a whole scientific field in psychology and psychotherapy dealing with the ego complex and the state of neurosis.  No need for your logic.  Thanks anyway.....   

 

Neurosis is quite right. If you are saying its a mental issue then I agree. Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth. No attempt s made to 'kill' the ego. Go see a clinical psychologist and tell them that is your intention and see how they view it.