What is the Ego?

[ChiForce]

Neurosis is quite right. If you are saying its a mental issue then I agree. Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth. No attempt s made to 'kill' the ego. Go see a clinical psychologist and tell them that is your intention and see how they view it.

Your ego is worth as much as it relates to others.  It has no intrinsic value.  Its existence is dualistic and interdependent/dependent.  Frankly, I would give you a penny for your ego...hehehehe...

 

You can have my ego for FREE because it is already dead long ago.  Hehehehehe 

[Karl]

Your ego is worth as much as it relates to others.  It has no intrinsic value.  Its existence is dualistic and interdependent/dependent.  Frankly, I would give you a penny for your ego...hehehehe...

 

You can have my ego for FREE because it is already dead long ago.  Hehehehehe 

 

Nothing has intrinsic value and so we can agree at least on that point.

 

Clearly, the way you agitate and converse reveals your ego to be very much alive and kicking, beyond that I'm not prepared to guess. I would say that if you really believe your ego is is dead then this is an issue that should be resolved.

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

 

I'm more than happy to recommend meditation, mindfulness, self inquiry, asanas and many other practices as being useful to overall healing and used then for close on eight years, twice a day every day so I certainly do no decry their value.

Have you ever considered that maybe the customized/bastardized AYP practices that you did did not work?

 

I got nothing out of spinal breathing until I regulated my breathing with a strict breathing sequence, and combined it with sending a pranic heat mixture up the central channel. And most other teachings release the mulabhanda before going up the central channel. I didn't experience samadhi until I fixated on the "I" in the "I Am". TM (aka deep meditation) is not a Patanjali's practice. Further, mantra practice is supposed to be energized by a grant from a guru, which you would never get at AYP because Yogani does not make himself to the public, even for retreats. I could go on..

 

Maybe you went to kindergarten for 8 years. Have you ever considered that?

 

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[Karl]

Have you ever considered that maybe the customized/bastardized AYP practices that you did did not work?

I got nothing out of spinal breathing until I regulated my breathing with a strict breathing sequence, and combined it with sending a pranic heat mixture up the central channel. And most other teachings release the mulabhanda before going up the central channel. I didn't experience samadhi until I fixated on the "I" in the "I Am". TM (aka deep meditation) is not a Patanjali's practice. Further, mantra practice is supposed to be energized by a grant from a guru, which you would never get at AYP because Yogani does not make himself to the public, even for retreats. I could go on..

Maybe you went to kindergarten for 8 years. Have you ever considered that?

.

 

Didn't work for what ? Its just meditation, if you want to make a big deal about it fine, but Yogani-for all his 'advanced' ideology-is promoting just ordinary sitting with eyes closed. The mantra is a useful method of keeping the mind occupied. If you think it's important to concentrate on a particular bit of the mantra, well then that's your business and you do that.

 

I didn't really get involved with AYP after the first couple of years. I did the meditation and worked with SRMs self inquiry and other mindful techniques that were not part of AYP. It seemed important at the time, but not now. I've said all I will say on AYP under that particular topic and that warning applies to all practices equally.

 

I didn't find the answer I wanted in AYP anyway, or in any of the other practices. It was just part of the process, stuff moves on like a stream.

[Silent Answers]

Ego is the tip of the iceberg. The dictator that's hardly stepped foot in his own country. The spoiled brat whom inherited his father's company, and is now running it into the ground.

 

Unless shown otherwise, the boss locks himself away in the overlooking office, stuffing his face on behalf of the many. Pocketing profits and draining company resources.

 

I agree with Kyle when he says that ego is somewhat imaginary. It's part of self cornered of from, and seperated from the whole. A mirrage given off from an accumulation of software, loaded with adware and viruses...slowing down the processing power.

 

Consciousness is the operating system/stage. Ego/self is the software we've installed. We download a lot of unnecessary crap, but ego is also not necessarily a bad thing, if you know the basics of maintaining your mind. A lot of what we are doing is uninstalling and improving our defense against possible trojans, malware and spam.

[Bindi]

Neurosis is quite right. If you are saying its a mental issue then I agree. Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth. No attempt s made to 'kill' the ego. Go see a clinical psychologist and tell them that is your intention and see how they view it.

 

The field of psychology is an awfully big field. Maybe you just have to choose a more appropriate therapist.

 

Over the last few decades, the transpersonal psychology approach has emerged from mainstream psychology to address the effects of spirituality and consciousness on personal transformation and health and to explore the optimal levels of human functioning.

 

The term transpersonal means beyond (trans) the personal, ego or self. Transpersonal psychology Is concerned with the study of humanity’s highest potential, and with the recognition, understanding, and realization of unitive, spiritual, and transcendent states of consciousness.

 

Early on, the leaders of the transpersonal psychology movement became aware that modern Western science was also substantiating the experiences and states of mind described for thousands of years by the classical philosophical and religious traditions of the Far East.

 

The ego or personality is viewed by transpersonal counselors as the outer expression of one’s greater multidimensional self and as only one facet of one’s total identity. But, ego strengthening is believed to be a prerequisite to transcendence- Once adequate ego strength is established, transpersonal counselors use traditional and nontraditional techniques to reduce the blocks within the limited ego self to unleash the unlimited potential of the greater self. The overriding therapeutic objective is to disidentify from the restrictions of the ego personality and to align the personality with the total self, to facilitate a more congruent, functional expression of one’s existential nature.

 

Four major paradigms emerge in [the] classification system [of psychology]. These four distinct philosophical positions are represented by reductionism [behaviourism], humanism, dualism [Jungian], and monism [transpersonal psychology].

 

The reductionistic, humanistic, dualistic and monistic paradigms each build on the framework of the previous paradigm. All four paradigms address a distinct, valid aspect of existence. Each subsequent paradigm comprehends the reference points of the preceding paradigm while also recognizing expanded levels of human functioning.

 

Monistic psychology is devoted to turning inward toward one’s deeper nature. This represents an involution or unfolding process that uncovers one’s true source of being and the underlying unity of all existence.

 

http://www.cpd3.com/transpersonal.htm

[Karl]

Consciousness is the operating system/stage. We download a lot of unnecessary crap, but ego is also not necessarily a bad thing, if you know the basics of maintaining your mind. A lot of what we are doing is uninstalling and improving our defense against possible trojans, malware and spam.

 

Good analogy.

[Karl]

The field of psychology is an awfully big field. Maybe you just have to choose a more appropriate therapist.

 

Nowhere is it suggested amongst any of that text, the necessity you 'kill' the ego. It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first. I would agree, that is my own experience.

 

I worked for a time as a therapist with some degree of success-overcoming irrational fears and psychological blocks using a wide range of tools. I think mainly, people just want their needs to be heard and they have a hard time vocalising them because they are taught to distrust the motives of other people through consistent exposure to betrayal, judgement and analysis. Therapy provides a non threatening series of quack techniques which people tend to feel more confident in partaking in. It's also less traumatic for the therapist because it removes the close empathetic ties and hence the therapists own fears being brought to the surface.

 

That's just my 2 cent opinion and not intended as a catch all, or accurate analysis, purely an opinion based on my experiences in that field.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Karl

[Bindi]

 

Nowhere is it suggested amongst any of that text, the necessity you 'kill' the ego. It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first. I would agree, that is my own experience.

 

I worked for a time as a therapist with some degree of success-overcoming irrational fears and psychological blocks using a wide range of tools. I think mainly, people just want their needs to be heard and they have a hard time vocalising them because they are taught to distrust the motives of other people through consistent exposure to betrayal, judgement and analysis. Therapy provides a non threatening series of quack techniques which people tend to feel more confident in partaking in. It's also less traumatic for the therapist because it removes the close empathetic ties and removes the hence the therapists own fears being brought to the surface.

 

That's just my 2 cent opinion and not intended as a catch all, or accurate analysis, purely an opinion based on my experiences in that field.

No not kill the ego, but transcend it, which you have consistently argued against. I just posted this article to counter your statement that 'Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth.' Even now you say 'It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first,' but it says more than that, which you have ignored, and which aligns with Eastern philosophy and religious traditions.

 

"The overriding therapeutic objective is to disidentify from the restrictions of the ego personality and to align the personality with the total self, to facilitate a more congruent, functional expression of one’s existential nature."

 

There's a lot of work involved in this. Of course you can choose not to do this work, but maybe you don't need to be so dismissive when other people choose to see this work as necessary.

[Nikolai1]

Hi Bindi,

 

Even now you say 'It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first,' 

Even though it sounds paradoxical, strengthening the ego and removing it are exactly the same thing.  It is also true to say that weakening the ego and removing it is the same thing.

 

The trouble is, we never ever, ever lose our fundamental, primal sense of being a person.  If you call this fundamental sense 'ego', if that's the name you give it, then the ego will become ever stronger, richer and healthier and more loving as it moves out of its sense of constriction in time and space.  

 

But, so often, the ego is assumed to be by definition to be that which is confined by time and space.  So clearly, if this your definition, this ego will weaken as our Higher Self grows stronger.

 

All mental ill-health, in all its varieties, arises when the person's identity is overly confined in time and space.  This is the recipe for mental suffering.  This situtation can be called having 'too an strong ego', or a too 'weak unintegrated ego' depending on how you define ego.

[Karl]

No not kill the ego, but transcend it, which you have consistently argued against. I just posted this article to counter your statement that 'Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth.' Even now you say 'It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first,' but it says more than that, which you have ignored, and which aligns with Eastern philosophy and religious traditions."The overriding therapeutic objective is to disidentify from the restrictions of the ego personality and to align the personality with the total self, to facilitate a more congruent, functional expression of one’s existential nature."There's a lot of work involved in this. Of course you can choose not to do this work, but maybe you don't need to be so dismissive when other people choose to see this work as necessary.

 

Well, if we get the language right then perhaps we can get closer agreement. what do you mean by 'transcend' ? If you mean by that, to escape from cognitive conditioning then I agree. If you mean it to be 'go beyond' then I do not. Neither do I believe it's necessary to use Eastern Philosophies per se-some of their ideas are designed by early practitioners as a means of cognitive control and thus add to the problem and not end it.

 

If people have no way of identifying the useful parts from the more control oriented parts then this becomes all but an impossible task. Our society is built on a platonic hierarchy of control and obedience and it is a highly refined methodology which gained additional insights through the works of Freud and Jung. The task of state education is to pull the claws and teeth of critical thinking from the pupils and prepare them (US) for a life within this structure. As such, attempts to rid ourselves of the cognitive condition are in effect a scattergun action. We can hit on some technique that works purely by accident, but equally we can fall for the same ancient rhetoric which utilised mystery as its key control element.

 

Can we say the ego has been damaged, constrained and controlled in some sense and that its this damage that must be repaired in order for the individual to flourish as a beautiful, strong and resourceful individual living In voluntary cooperation and without the need for violent thought, words or actions ?

 

I have linked to the Marshall Rosenberg YouTube training on Non violent communication which, in the first 20 minutes or so explains this. The rest of the training is worthwhile if you have not come across this method of resolution. I will post a link to John Taylor Gattos interviews which gets into the nitty gritty of how and why. Marshall is more concerned with overcoming what he describes as 'the static language' I have alluded to previously ( I actually hadn't heard this training material prior to posting it here and I found he had concluded that ideas such as; right, wrong, good, bad, reward and punishment are pivotal in the current state of education.

 

[Karl]

For Bindi: I think this best sums up what I'm about. The sound is pretty awful, but bare with it. John had a bad stroke a couple of years back and is a bit slurred - remarkable as the stroke affected his speech centres and they thought he might never speak again.

 

It's on Western Spirituality. We segue between these things during discussions but John puts it so beautifully and with such wit that I could never do it justice. It dovetails with Marshall Rosenbergs work.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Karl

[ChiForce]

Nowhere is it suggested amongst any of that text, the necessity you 'kill' the ego. It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first. I would agree, that is my own experience.

 

I worked for a time as a therapist with some degree of success-overcoming irrational fears and psychological blocks using a wide range of tools. I think mainly, people just want their needs to be heard and they have a hard time vocalising them because they are taught to distrust the motives of other people through consistent exposure to betrayal, judgement and analysis. Therapy provides a non threatening series of quack techniques which people tend to feel more confident in partaking in. It's also less traumatic for the therapist because it removes the close empathetic ties and hence the therapists own fears being brought to the surface.

 

That's just my 2 cent opinion and not intended as a catch all, or accurate analysis, purely an opinion based on my experiences in that field.

Now, you are a therapist.  Oh, really?  Where did you get your license?  Who is allowing you to practice?  Where did you get your psychiatric degree?  Maybe that's your problem.  You THOUGHT and fantasized you are anything and everything.  Your "credentials" impress no one here, I assure you.     

[Brian]

Well, I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[Karl]

Now, you are a therapist. Oh, really? Where did you get your license? Who is allowing you to practice? Where did you get your psychiatric degree? Maybe that's your problem. You THOUGHT and fantasized you are anything and everything. Your "credentials" impress no one here, I assure you.

Was a therapist. There is no requirement for a license or degree to be a therapist and I wasn't-and would never-deal with clients that had severe trauma, clinically diagnosed depression or who were taking prescribed anti depressant drugs. I practised for around 2 years as part of my duties as a business adviser.

 

Can you could point out where I was 'anything and everything'. I've had a varied career it is true to say, but it doesn't encompass universals. Neither is it necessary to 'impress' anyone, it was only by way of anecdotal evidence. In fact I have very few qualifications at all beyond rudimentary school and technical education. Told you before-thick as a brick. Not cut out for an academic life, fodder only for a career as a craftsman.

 

No matter how much you keep at this it won't make the slightest difference to me, you might as well try and slice air. I've had far better and more manipulative practitioners of that trade to deal with than you have had hot dinners. Regardless, I don't blame you and continue to offer you friendship and will happily remove the thorn from your paw if chance ever allows. So growl, roar, scratch and bite if you must.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Karl

[ChiForce]

Karl, it is all clear.  This is your game plan, right.  You want us to take you seriously because you aren't really an expert in many of the cultivation subjects.  So, you faked about your knowledge on many of the meditation subjects by claiming you spent so and so years studying with a particular cultivation school.  Now, we are switching somewhat to the ego psychology (I personally psychoanalyzed myself and literally cured my own neurosis by reading up on Carl Jung's Analytical psychology).  So, you have to concoct some story about you being a therapist so that you can become an authority in dealing with the ego complex.  So that we would take your psychobables seriously.    Hehehehehehehehehe......  

 

This is the web son.   Whatever happens here, it has little bearing to the world outside around you.  No wondering why you spammed so much here....

Edited August 13, 2015 by ChiForce

[ChiForce]

Was a therapist. There is no requirement for a license or degree to be a therapist and I wasn't-and would never-deal with clients that had severe trauma, clinically diagnosed depression or who were taking prescribed anti depressant drugs. I practised for around 2 years as part of my duties as a business adviser.

 

Can you could point out where I was 'anything and everything'. I've had a varied career it is true to say, but it doesn't encompass universals. Neither is it necessary to 'impress' anyone, it was only by way of anecdotal evidence. In fact I have very few qualifications at all beyond rudimentary school and technical education. Told you before-thick as a brick. Not cut out for an academic life, fodder only for a career as a craftsman.

 

No matter how much you keep at this it won't make the slightest difference to me, you might as well try and slice air. I've had far better and more manipulative practitioners of that trade to deal with than you have had hot dinners. Regardless, I don't blame you and continue to offer you friendship and will happily remove the thorn from your paw if chance ever allows. So growl, roar, scratch and bite if you must.

Hahahahahahahaa...no license and no degree required to become a therapist...????  Even for being a social worker you need a degree and a license.    

Edited August 13, 2015 by ChiForce

[Marblehead]

I have a degree.  It is a MA in BS.

[Karl]

Hahahahahahahaa...no license and no degree required to become a therapist...????  Even for being a social worker you need a degree and a license.    

 

Nope, you can set up and practice with nothing more than public liability insurance. Why should that be a surprise, you are learning cultivation by people who also held no degrees or licences to do so, but you haven't queried that facet of your learning.

[ChiForce]

Nope, you can set up and practice with nothing more than public liability insurance. Why should that be a surprise, you are learning cultivation by people who also held no degrees or licences to do so, but you haven't queried that facet of your learning.

Wow.....I am beyond words.......  Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha......  unlicensed therapist....unlicensed doctor.  Hehehehehehehe....... 

[ChiForce]

I have a degree.  It is a MA in BS.

Mine is PhD in bullshitology, just like Karl's....hehehehe.

[Karl]

Karl, it is all clear.  This is your game plan, right.  You want us to take you seriously because you aren't really an expert in many of the cultivation subjects.  So, you faked about your knowledge on many of the meditation subjects by claiming you spent so and so years studying with a particular cultivation school.  Now, we are switching somewhat to the ego psychology (I personally psychoanalyzed myself and literally cured my own neurosis by reading up on Carl Jung's Analytical psychology).  So, you have to concoct some story about you being a therapist so that you can become an authority in dealing with the ego complex.  So that we would take your psychobables seriously.    Hehehehehehehehehe......  

 

This is the web son.   Whatever happens here, it has little bearing to the world outside around you.  No wondering why you spammed so much here....

 

I'm not sure I had any 'knowledge' beyond what I had learned through AYP and various books on the subject. It's all interpretation after all.

 

Well I was a very young beginner in psychology because of a mildly dysfunctional family, so I was studying TA when I was 14. I had read most of Castenedas books by the time I was 13. Life without a TV has its benefits and one is to develop a healthy appetite for reading.

 

As I said it was anecdotal that's all. I leave psychiatry to the psychiatrists. All I know for certain is what I can glean about myself directly, I don't purport to be a specialist. I know the basics of rocketry, but I couldn't design a space craft to save my life. I know my ego, because it's me so I'm relatively well qualified to give anecdotal evidence on that aspect of myself.

 

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to drop in that you had used Jung to cure your neurosis, perhaps you just didn't like that I marginalised his work when you found it an effective cure ? I don't suppose you are a qualified psychiatrist/therapist either, but that didn't stop you dabbling and espousing the jungian philosophy. Pretty much then we are both charlatans :-) snake oil salesman and worse :-)

[Karl]

Wow.....I am beyond words.......  Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha......  unlicensed therapist....unlicensed doctor.  Hehehehehehehe....... 

 

Doctor ? Where did I say that.

Just around the corner from me we have therapist that do Angel healing, Tarot reading, phrenology and all manner of new age stuff. They seem to do pretty well at it and none have degrees in those particular skills.

I've met plenty of licensed practitioners I wouldn't trust with the most basic things either. A don't trust licenses or qualifications to guarantee anything. Several of our mass murder cases were perpetrated by those in white coats.

[ChiForce]

I'm not sure I had any 'knowledge' beyond what I had learned through AYP and various books on the subject. It's all interpretation after all. Well I was a very young beginner in psychology because of a mildly dysfunctional family, so I was studying TA when I was 14. I had read most of Castenedas books by the time I was 13. Life without a TV has its benefits and one is to develop a healthy appetite for reading. As I said it was anecdotal that's all. I leave psychiatry to the psychiatrists. All I know for certain is what I can glean about myself directly, I don't purport to be a specialist. I know the basics of rocketry, but I couldn't design a space craft to save my life. I know my ego, because it's me so I'm relatively well qualified to give anecdotal evidence on that aspect of myself. I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to drop in that you had used Jung to cure your neurosis, perhaps you just didn't like that I marginalised his work when you found it an effective cure ? I don't suppose you are a qualified psychiatrist/therapist either, but that didn't stop you dabbling and espousing the jungian philosophy. Pretty much then we are both charlatans :-) snake oil salesman and worse :-)

Dude, the difference between you and me and is that I am on a path and experienced various cultivation results and meditation accomplishments.  You?  You are still psychobabling.  At least, I don't go around telling people I am an unlicensed  therapist.      

[Karl]

Mine is PhD in bullshitology, just like Karl's....hehehehe.

 

Well there you are commonality at last.