Clarification for a beginner: do some consult WITHOUT coins/sticks?

[Ell]

Hello all:

 

So, I THINK my inquiry is relatively simple....I have kind of skimmed the I Ching and its meanings and general usages in the past, but I'm just now really getting into studying it and using it for my own personal consulting. The first version I picked up was by Thomas Cleary.

 

My understanding after first read-through was that to consult the practitioner simply picks out two hexagrams that they believe define a given relationship or situation.

 

Imagine my surprise, then, when I later went online for supplemental information and found all these discussions of RANDOM selections by coins and sticks!

 

At first, the former method (if it is indeed an accepted method) made a lot of sense because the nature of the situation in mind would seemingly inevitably possess characteristics of the literal element of nature. But then I fiddled around with the coins method (on iphone apps/computer generated/etc) and that seemed to provide very interesting - perhaps more interesting - results, too. And that seems to be more widely accepted the more I read....

 

So, do some out there indeed consult the book without using coins/sticks? What are these methods names/associations? Benefits of each? Sites that do a good job of explaining exhaustively? Personal recommendations?

 

Hope I'm not coming across as TOO naive....I'm new, but I'm very into it...

 

All the best

 

Ell

[Shidifen]

G'day Ell. What you're writing about is called bibliomancy. You can find some info about it on Wikipedia or just Google bibliomancy.

 

I prefer to use coins or sticks. I use a couple of my own methods of using sticks that give the same probability as three coins. I don't pick hexagram entries at random because its not a really inclusive way of doing it. There'll be some hexagrams that won't get picked because they're at the front or back of the book or at sides or corners of charts, unless you're purposely choosing those areas. I've heard of the method of choosing two trigrams to make a hexagram or choosing two hexagrams based on feeling or experience, but to me they seem too forced. 

 

I like the randomness of the coins and I get to read what I feel from the results.

[hod]

Thomas Cleary's book goes into the Divination process the least of most books on the Yijing. Most of the other talk about two or three ways of diving - always the coin and yarrow method, and then some other ones.

 

A quick history of the methods of divining from what I have read is below.

 

The earliest form of divination off the book was using turtle shells. They would drill a few holes in the shell and then heat it up until it cracked. Then read the cracks to determine the gua.

 

The next known practice was the use of yarrow or other types of sticks to divine the gua. There are stories from the Zhou Dynasty of priest preforming the divination this way infront of large crowds with five foot long yarrow sticks.

 

The coin method seems to be the newest.

 

In some books they talk about once you have mastered the Yijing, that you do not need to preform the divination anymore because the gua just comes to you that solves your problem - but this is always mentioned in the context of someone who has studied the book for years and has truely mastered it.

[hod]

Sorry, forgot to mention I don't know any online resources for the diving procedure. I just consult the many boosk I have.

 

The easiest to explain here is the coin method. Toss three coins six times to get each of the six lines. Below is the chart to know what lline you have thrown with each toss of three coins.

 

Heads + Heads + Heads = Changing Yang -o-

Heads + Heads + Tails = Yin - -

Heads + Tails + Tails = Yang __

Tails + Tails + Tails = Changing Yin -x-

 

All changing lines are changed into the opposite line. The gua with changing lines is your first gua, the one with the changing lines switched to opposites is your final gua.

 

That is really basic, but the procedure.

 

Taoist Master Alfred Huang's book as the best explanation of the many divining process.

[Ell]

I think I will check out Huang's work. I was already beginning to discern that Cleary's might not be the best introduction, in part because of posts from other places in this forum suggesting it was a bit TOO literal to really be practical, but also because the book itself stresses that the I Ching should be taken and read as a whole work....and I am finding the copy kind of hard to read that way.

 

I'm not sure I really grasp "changing lines," but I may just be way overthinking it. Is it just as simple as that your first "draw" should be interpreted as your present, and your second as where you're headed? 

 

In any case, challenges aside, I'm still very excited to start this journey. I really like the idea I've seen of a once-daily morning consultation....I will report back. Thanks for all the help.

[hod]

I'm not sure I really grasp "changing lines," but I may just be way overthinking it. Is it just as simple as that your first "draw" should be interpreted as your present, and your second as where you're headed? 

 

The first gua is your current situation and the changing line in it is where you are in that situation. The second gua is the advice.

[Basil]

In addition to Haung's edition, the Eranos edition also has a great introduction to the process though the Eranos is probably not the best version of the Yijing for someone who is unfamiliar/starting out.

[MooNiNite]

G'day Ell. What you're writing about is called bibliomancy. You can find some info about it on Wikipedia or just Google bibliomancy.

 

I prefer to use coins or sticks. I use a couple of my own methods of using sticks that give the same probability as three coins. I don't pick hexagram entries at random because its not a really inclusive way of doing it. There'll be some hexagrams that won't get picked because they're at the front or back of the book or at sides or corners of charts, unless you're purposely choosing those areas. I've heard of the method of choosing two trigrams to make a hexagram or choosing two hexagrams based on feeling or experience, but to me they seem too forced. 

 

I like the randomness of the coins and I get to read what I feel from the results.

 

I believe in coincidences, some type of connection between oneself and the universe around them.

 

However isn't bibliography expecting those coincidences? Or forcing them?

[hod]

I was flipping through one of Eva Wang's book this morning and read the chapter on King Wen. It was interesting that she said the form of divination he invented involved having six sticks in a bag (three with yin carved on them and three with yang). He would put the six sticks in a bag and then draw them. If he pulled out more yin sticks, the first line would be yin, and vice versus for yang.

 

I had never heard of this method, but just goes to show, there are many methods out there. The important part if finding one that you like.

[Daeluin]

The better you know the changes, the easier it becomes to see them as they unfold.

 

Da Liu has a book called I Ching Numerology that can be used to derive a hexagram based on the numerics and timing as related to a particular situation one is seeking clarity on. The timing is "westernized" so I prefer to use the original timing, and the theory seems pretty poignant. With practice I imagine one could do this by rote anywhere one goes.

[scribe]

Randomness is hard - ask a computer scientist.

 

The difficulty in devising a decent divining system is in opening up all (unconscious) routes to the 64 hexagrams in equal probability while reducing the conscious influence on the decision. The mind lies, or at least brings its own agenda to the party.

 

Believe in randomness and it becomes ... less random.

 

And the act of divining can, in itself, be enlightening. More often that not, I've learnt enough from just watching the lines form.