Karl Posted August 28, 2015 With respect, Karl, this illustrates how profoundly you misunderstand me. I don't think I will ever come remotely close to understanding you. I don't think it was ever your intention to allow that to occur. You like being a mystic and being careful not to reveal too much. It's a very political stance of never being pushed into a corner you can't easily escape from. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 I don't think I will ever come remotely close to understanding you. I don't think it was ever your intention to allow that to occur. You like being a mystic and being careful not to reveal too much. It's a very political stance of never being pushed into a corner you can't easily escape from.Nope, I'm very much a realist -- it is just that my perception of "real" is manifold, just as my concept of "self" is expanded beyond "me." A jazz purist may not recognize hip-hop or bluegrass as "real music" but this limited perspective doesn't truly restrict "music" to just that single art form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 Nope, I'm very much a realist -- it is just that my perception of "real" is manifold, just as my concept of "self" is expanded beyond "me." A jazz purist may not recognize hip-hop or bluegrass as "real music" but this limited perspective doesn't truly restrict "music" to just that single art form. Nah, I'm not playing. You are like a very squidgy cake where the cream slides out the side when you go to take a bite :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 Stosh, Digging deeper the assumptions and stereotypes begin with what the word "God" means to "us" and to "them" which I'd say ranges all over the map from a-z, even if I used a Bible context which still does not eliminate an a-z range of interpretation depending on if one is working from a fanatical or cosmic consciousness state..... I do like your statement along the lines about keeping the verdict suspended, which in many cases would probably be an honest option to apply to "us" and to "them" since most of "us" and "them" really don't have the experience or personal proof that satisfies 100% one way or the other. MH, As far as starting the "fire" that was meant to allude to going back to the cosmic "big bang" (if one will) which as far as can be ascertained no human being started that. Fair, but I cant either yeild the point or defend it without an example of a group I might have mis-attributed , a sentiment to. (excepting of course, I dont care about addressing the oddball position that makes no sense) RE: needing 100% proof , I dont ,, its too crippling to require it , if it even exists. I once was on the other side of the fence so , I cant judge folks on that side very harshly , for it would reflect on me too. Nor should I judge very harshly Jains or Hindus , since I don't have a frame of reference really to understand what I'd be objecting to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 Nah, I'm not playing. You are like a very squidgy cake where the cream slides out the side when you go to take a bite :-)Mmmmm...I sound tasty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 Mmmmm... I sound tasty. As the lure said to the fish. :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 Nah, I'm not playing. You are like a very squidgy cake where the cream slides out the side when you go to take a bite :-) He is a little evasive , but its his style , I cant tease him out of it ! Maybe you'll have better luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 I once did some personal research, just for fun, into the behavior of bells and cymbals -- how they work, the various modes at which they vibrate, the harmonic resonances which arise from the interactions of these various vibrations occurring simultaneously, etc. Quite fascinating and with broad analogs beyond that single discipline. Along the way, I was intrigued by the multi-tined elephant bell. Of particular interest was the significance of the missing material between the tines, the way this impacted the modes of oscillation and the sound of the bell itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 He is a little evasive , but its his style , I cant tease him out of it ! Maybe you'll have better luck.When the question is, "Chocolate or vanilla?" the appropriate answer might be: When the question is "A or not A?" my answer might be "Yes." Pushed to expound upon that reply, I might say, "Yes -- either, both, neither and all of the above." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 28, 2015 Stosh, Good point about the 100% since it can not be attained in any dualistic way which naturally includes room for doubt, thus it boils down to the 100% coming upon the 100% without any room for doubt, yet even that 100% knows it can not prove itself to anyone else along with an inner knowing that it would be a type of crime to attempt or force such. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 You cant make up your mind? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 Stosh, Good point about the 100% since it can not be attained in any dualistic way which naturally includes room for doubt, thus it boils down to the 100% coming upon the 100% without any room for doubt, yet even that 100% knows it can not prove itself to anyone else along with an inner knowing that it would be a type of crime to attempt or force such. Yessir It would , Well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 He is a little evasive , but its his style , I cant tease him out of it ! Maybe you'll have better luck. Not a bleedin' chance in five leagues of hell. I know when I'm beaten, he is a consummate political animal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 You cant make up your mind? No, he just can't make up his mind about making up his mind because it implies he has made up his mind and he definitely hasn't, unless he has in which case all bets are off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 No, he just can't make up his mind about making up his mind because it implies he has made up his mind and he definitely hasn't, unless he has in which case all bets are off.It's more complicated than that yet deceptively simple at the same time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) yep, all bets are off for most of "us", "them" and everybody until sometime between 0100 and 2400 today, tomorrow, maybe almost forever and or depending upon reflections of yesterday... Edited August 28, 2015 by 3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 28, 2015 If you look at your computer screen, you can simultaneously see the image presented, your reflection in the monitor, and dust or fingerprints on its surface. You can choose to focus your awareness on any of them while practically blocking the others out, and you can also relax into seeing all of them simultaneously. Which is real? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) the electrons are fairly close yet light years away...if one is picky Edited August 28, 2015 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 If you look at your computer screen, you can simultaneously see the image presented, your reflection in the monitor, and dust or fingerprints on its surface. You can choose to focus your awareness on any of them while practically blocking the others out, and you can also relax into seeing all of them simultaneously.Which is real? All of them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2015 You cant make up your mind? Is it possible that some people have no mind they need to make up? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 Is it possible that some people have no mind they need to make up? Maybe. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) If you look at your computer screen, you can simultaneously see the image presented, your reflection in the monitor, and dust or fingerprints on its surface. You can choose to focus your awareness on any of them while practically blocking the others out, and you can also relax into seeing all of them simultaneously. Which is real? I'd say all of them are real too. ( as well as each chosen perception , would be real as well .. if one could actually see multiple things all at the same time .. which one can't.. thats to say .I dont think one can ) Edited August 28, 2015 by Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 28, 2015 I'd say all of them are real too. ( as well as each chosen perception , would be real as well .. if one could actually see multiple things all at the same time .. which one can't.. thats to say .I dont think one can ) That's what concepts are for. A single tree is easy, but a million trees cannot be comprehended as individual objects and so we have the concept of forests. Imagine trying to imagine billions of grains of sand, but a beach is easy. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 28, 2015 That's what concepts are for. A single tree is easy, but a million trees cannot be comprehended as individual objects and so we have the concept of forests. Imagine trying to imagine billions of grains of sand, but a beach is easy. Agreed, but since I cant help but expect a catch, Im covering all the bases. Even just the beach is concept , as I examine it, a preconscious assemblage, if you will, ... but I think there really is a beach that Mh might stroll on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 28, 2015 ... but I think there really is a beach that Mh might stroll on. Yes Stosh, there really is a beach. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
