AYP in financial distress, starts charging for "Plus" lessons.

[Tibetan_Ice]

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15497

 

Hi Mr.Carbone:

 

And thank you Blue and Bodhi for sharing your clear understanding of the situation.

 

Yes, since AYP started in 2003, the goal has always been to have a large part of the resources available for free online. However, I am not wealthy (only a pensioner), nor am I physically immortal, so there has always been the question of what would happen to AYP after I am no longer able to sustain it. Would it just fade into oblivion after my time?

 

For the first 7 years, 2003-2010, AYP was funded largely out of my pocket, with some help from a few generous patrons. In 2010, AYP book sales began to pick up the slack and from then until 2014, enabled AYP to operate and even provide some promise to sustain the free resources beyond my time. But that promise was short lived, as book sales began to decline. They are now selling about 1/2 what they were a year ago, and the future of AYP is in jeopardy.

 

In 2013, we began development work on AYP Plus, which has been the largest project to date, including all of the AYP resources online -- the lessons with extensive and ongoing additions, multimedia, all the books, audiobooks, enhanced interviews, dedicated support and many more features. AYP Plus was launched on May 1st of this year, with the hope that if even just a few hundred people signed up for $10 per month, we would finally be out of the woods on sustaining AYP long term. But hardly anyone signed up. Those few who have been supporting AYP all along signed up, and a few more. But the vast majority of the 20,000 visitors to the AYP website and forums every month have continued to rely on the free resources only, making it clear that the math of paid AYP supporting free AYP simply is not working. So we have been left with little choice but to reduce free technique instructional lessons, leaving the bulk of the free lessons intact for now. We are seeking a better balance between the paid and free AYP resources.

 

This whole scenario has been very painful for me. I wish more had stepped forward to help. Apparently, free for as long as it will last is more important for most than sustaining a resource that can be there for those who will come after. So, with reluctance, we are doing what has to be done.

 

If you have bought the AYP books and/or signed up for AYP Plus, I thank you. You are benefitting from resources that far exceed what the free online lessons have been, and you are helping make AYP available for the future.

 

I would prefer we not get into a long winded debate here on the pros and cons of free vs paid resources, and the endless scenarios. We have arrived here after a long time of financial uncertainty, and a course has been set to address the situation. If anyone would like to help, then it is suggested to put a little something into the paid AYP resources. You would benefit, and so would those who come after you.

 

Thank you, and all the best on your path!

 

The guru is in you.

 

 

[Karl]

I can't help but think much but good riddance.

[MooNiNite]

How much does it really cost to run that website?

 

With 20,000 visitors they can put an ad somewhere. 

[MooNiNite]

This website has 0 ads

[Apech]

This website has 0 ads

 

Only if you use adblock

[Brian]

This website has 0 ads

 

 

Only if you use adblock

TDB or AYP?

 

I've never visited the former but the latter shows me a single banner between tabs and breadcrumbs, with content in rotation. I don't use AdBlock but I am a forum sponsor.

[Apech]

 

 TDB or AYP?

 

I've never visited the former but the latter shows me a single banner between tabs and breadcrumbs, with content in rotation. I don't use AdBlock but I am a forum sponsor.

 

 

I thought he meant this site.

 

No ads on AYP just checked.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Apech

[JohnC]

Awesome. Where can I donate to help these guys out?

 

To have provided a website and hosting, paying out of pocket for years is amazing.

Hosting and providing information to people costs money. With 20,000 visitors, that is a hell of a lot of bandwidth cost.

 

I feel angry hearing about people that think they should host it for free.

 

 

Just found the link to donate:

Here.

 

John

[Chang]

The difference between the Dao Bums and the AYP site is that the former is a wide ranging discussion forum whilst the later is didactic in nature.

 

Whilst AYP certaily has its detractors (some of whom have found their way to this site) I wish them well and hope that they may long continue.

[Tibetan_Ice]

One thing that bothers me about AYP is that Yogani takes your posts, cherry picks the ones he wants, builds books out them and then sells them without any writers' compensation or acknowledgement of author's copyright infringement.

 

Years later, after mentioning this to him, he decided to post a notice, but still does not share the 'profits' from those book sales with the posters..

 

Further, Yogani does not permit you to delete or edit your posts after a certain time limit (which he does not transparently reveal) and only recently added that rule change. So, if you feel that you have posted responses that are no longer what you believe, you cannot go back and delete them after a certain time period.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Karl]

And recently I watched the post of another concerned contributor mysteriously vanish.

[Jonesboy]

Topics about AYP Plus compared to free AYP have been told to stop.

 

No posts will be approved in the main forum or in the moderator forum.

 

Bad for business and all that.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I can't support a site that blocks posts that moderators think express opinions or methods the site's owner disagrees with.

 

I was hesitant to write this post concerning AYP but feel it's important. Of course it must be accepted that there are two sides to every story and anyone reading this should be aware of that and I urge them to research my posts on that site over the last 8 years and draw your own conclusions.

 

I resigned from moderating the AYP forum because I could no longer, with a clear confidence, continue to support something that has fallen closer to a cult, than a method of safely helping people. After over 8 years it's a huge disappointment to discover this to be the case. Anything which conflicts with Yogani and his methods is no longer tolerated-perhaps as others have said it really never was but I was blind to it.

 

At the time threads such as this were started by those who had been singled out, I was urging open discussion with moderation-only if there were direct insults and other plain abuse-but found myself over ruled. There was, at the time, what I regarded as an unhealthy preoccupation with those who came to the TB forum and criticised AYP. I found that difficult to understand coming from those who claimed to have attained stillness, unconditional love and expanded consciousness.

 

I must issue a warning. Anyone thinking of following the AYP method should be aware of what is happening at that forum. It does not mean to say you should not try it, but with caution. I think it has merit, but it is not truly open-those who Support it seem to defend it blindly. Yogani is a self promoter-nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be confused with altruism. Yogani is building a business and I wish him well in his endeavours but he is not being honest-though I do not know if this is premeditated-and that needs to be exposed.

 

After several recent posts since my self imposed exile from moderator status, I found the same heavy handed attempts at moderation which have afflicted others who have posted here. It appears as an attempt to discourage discussion. Today I discovered this email in my inbox which I assume is either generated by Yogani or Christi ( who appears to be Yoganis UK lieutenant):

 

Hello karl.

 

You made a post in the Jnana Yoga/Self-Inquiry - Advaita (Non-Duality) forum entitled Mukti. A forum moderator has decided to reject your post for the following reason:

 

Sorry, we are no longer going to approve posts from you of this nature. They are not consistent with the AYP approach to self-inquiry, which is practicing and coming to one's own experience and interpretation of same.

 

Lecturing others on what their experience is supposed to be is not appropriate. This is the neo-advaita approach, and it is suggested that you find a more appropriate venue for that line of posting. The AYP forum is not the place.

 

Thank you.

 

If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected]

[Karl]

Topics about AYP Plus compared to free AYP have been told to stop.

 

No posts will be approved in the main forum or in the moderator forum.

 

Bad for business and all that.

 

The post I read alluded to the AYP paysite but was expressing the same concerns I had. It was clear that censorship was taking place and the group of AYP acolytes were indulging in thinly veiled attacks on anyone who dared criticise any aspect of AYP. This is cult behaviour and I reviewed my own to check that I hadn't also been a willing participant. As it happens I had, but only passively.

 

As a general comment for every member on every type of spiritual website and practice-question more. Question what and who, before beginning to question why or how. If you only question 'how' or 'why' you fill have formed a reason to make the questions of 'what' and 'who' completely superfluous and given up the power to determine if something is really good for you. That is how cults work, they stop you asking the what question by telling the student that they need only practice to get results. It's necessary to fully understand what the practice does first and who is telling you it must be done in that particular way.

[Chang]

One thing that bothers me about AYP is that Yogani takes your posts, cherry picks the ones he wants, builds books out them and then sells them without any writers' compensation or acknowledgement of author's copyright infringement.

 

Years later, after mentioning this to him, he decided to post a notice, but still does not share the 'profits' from those book sales with the posters..

 

Further, Yogani does not permit you to delete or edit your posts after a certain time limit (which he does not transparently reveal) and only recently added that rule change. So, if you feel that you have posted responses that are no longer what you believe, you cannot go back and delete them after a certain time period.

 

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

[Karl]

 

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

 

Love it.

[liminal_luke]

It's necessary to fully understand what the practice does first and who is telling you it must be done in that particular way.

At the risk of going off-topic, I just wanted to say that sometimes it´s simply not possible to fully understand what a practice does without doing it. Yes, of course skepticism is good. And it´s certainly a good idea of approach possible practices with a cautious eye. But, having done a certain amount of due diligence, there´s also a place for a certain leap of trust. Sometimes we can only learn what a practice does through the practice of it.

 

Liminal

[Tibetan_Ice]

At the risk of going off-topic, I just wanted to say that sometimes it´s simply not possible to fully understand what a practice does without doing it. Yes, of course skepticism is good. And it´s certainly a good idea of approach possible practices with a cautious eye. But, having done a certain amount of due diligence, there´s also a place for a certain leap of trust. Sometimes we can only learn what a practice does through the practice of it.

 

Liminal

Yes and sometimes practices have been customized and no longer provide the same effect.

 

If someone says to keep the root lock throughout spinal breathing but all other teachings say to release it before starting the exhale, whom do you believe?

 

And is it fair not to disclose the variation?

[Karl]

Yes and sometimes practices have been customized and no longer provide the same effect.

If someone says to keep the root lock throughout spinal breathing but all other teachings say to release it before starting the exhale, whom do you believe?

And is it fair not to disclose the variation?

 

More along the lines of asking just what the effect actually is.

[Tibetan_Ice]

More along the lines of asking just what the effect actually is.

Sorry, could you please rephrase your sentence?

Are you asking me what the difference is between maintaining root lock and releasing it?

[Karl]

Sorry, could you please rephrase your sentence?

Are you asking me what the difference is between maintaining root lock and releasing it?

 

I'm saying it isn't about the corruption of a technique but about the technique itself. What is it ? What precisely does it do etc. Ignore what you have been told about the technique itself. Evaluate it.

 

I know you will go off and do the practices anyway-all the horses in hell won't stop a determined man on his path-just sit on a wall for a while and see if it accords with current reality. It's really easy to be swept up with things whilst justifying and rationalising them to fit the paradigm that is presented.

 

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'm saying it isn't about the corruption of a technique but about the technique itself. What is it ? What precisely does it do etc. Ignore what you have been told about the technique itself. Evaluate it. I know you will go off and do the practices anyway-all the horses in hell won't stop a determined man on his path-just sit on a wall for a while and see if it accords with current reality. It's really easy to be swept up with things whilst justifying and rationalising them to fit the paradigm that is presented.

Sorry, I'm not seeing what your point is or where this is going.

It seems to be some kind of anti-practice commentary...

[Karl]

Sorry, I'm not seeing what your point is or where this is going.

It seems to be some kind of anti-practice commentary...

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. In motorcycle parlance take care, treat every road user as dangerous and keep it rubber side up.

 

I ride a motorcycle and I enjoy it, I could drive a nice safe car instead, but I get a lot more out of throwing a high powered motorcycle about on twisty roads. Lots of people would say it's too dangerous and that's true, but I accept the risk and take care to ride defensively.

 

I can't exactly be anti practice when I spent at least 8 years or more doing them. However AYP wasnt what it portrayed itself to be and I should have questioned more than I did.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Karl

[Seeker of Wisdom]

What Karl's saying as far as I can see, TI, is that the problem isn't if a practice has been customised in itself, but whether the customisation results in better or worse effects, and people should evaluate their practices carefully.

[Nikolai1]

The problem with AYP as I see it:

 

It is a practice that focuses very heavily on very specific physical practices, like pranayama.  The intellectual side of our nature, the jnani, is left starved by AYP.  The thinking person is left no option to accept metaphors, like kundalini, as if it was real energy travelling along real channels in the body.

 

If an AYP practitoner is an intelligent person of sceptical disposition they may start to challenge the ultimate validity of all this talk.  But to do so naturally clashes with alll the less intelligent who see no problem with the metaphors, see that the practices work, and therefore superstitiously conclude that the whole kit and kaboodle is TRUE.

 

It is inevitable that an appraoch like AYP will develop into a website that is dogmatic and will work best for those who are dogmatists and not thinkers.

 

Underlying all this is that pranayama is an ancient practice that doesnt even need all this spurious stuff about kundalini, susumma i.e. all the stuff that people argue about.

 

And so modertors must be enlisted, henchmen to protect the party line, and then we see unedifying discipline publically occurring on the forum.  The free for all liberal ethos that made the teachings available is fatally undermined by the tyrannical need to protect the purity of a message that is, and could only ever be, metaphorical in nature.

 

Stories spread, peope leave the site, newcomers are put off by the atmosphere and the whole venture fails.  Book sales fall, people start to panic and so start to charge for some of the teachings, which limits the donations that entutally unsue when people see that the place is genuinely for free and feel gratitude.

 

A 'one approach fits all' can be made free to all because the book only needs to be written once, and thence it shall stand.  But the price must be paid somewhere, and intellectual sacrifice is what is needed.  Individual attention to individual thinkers?: that costs money and time.  Better financial sense to just silence them.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Nikolai1