3bob Posted August 23, 2015 Meditation in Affliction Gyalwa Longchenpa Assailed by afflictions, we discover DharmaAnd find the way to liberation. Thank you, evil forces! When sorrows invade the mind, we discover DharmaAnd find lasting happiness. Thank you, sorrows! Through harm caused by spirits we discover DharmaAnd find fearlessness. Thank you, ghosts and demons! Through people's hate we discover DharmaAnd find benefits and happiness. Thank you, those who hate us! Through cruel adversity, we discover DharmaAnd find the unchanging way. Thank you, adversity! Through being impelled to by others, we discover DharmaAnd find the essential meaning. Thank you, all who drive us on! We dedicate our merit to you all, to repay your kindness 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted August 23, 2015 The path to enlightenment begins with taking responsibility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 the saying is a radical and tough but true... with insight into hindsight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 Pain is the way to know there is a problem with the physical body, suffering is a way to know there is a contradiction within our conscious awareness. In effect the mind is seeking to point out the contradiction and resolve it, just as the body needs to resolve the physical contradiction. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 From 3bob --------- Meditation in Affliction Gyalwa Longchenpa Assailed by afflictions, we discover Dharma And find the way to liberation. Thank you, evil forces! When sorrows invade the mind, we discover Dharma And find lasting happiness. Thank you, sorrows! Through harm caused by spirits we discover Dharma And find fearlessness. Thank you, ghosts and demons! Through people's hate we discover Dharma And find benefits and happiness. Thank you, those who hate us! Through cruel adversity, we discover Dharma And find the unchanging way. Thank you, adversity! Through being impelled to by others, we discover Dharma And find the essential meaning. Thank you, all who drive us on! We dedicate our merit to you all, to repay your kindness End Quote ----- This is the meaning of " Give us this day our daily bread" It is an affirmation of life and participation in it. Suffering / friction / temperature / pressure / flow / time / space - mind is nothing - it will find nothing - it will bear no fruit- it was always barren, has no answer - clarifies nothing - it is the rock being beaten. Does the water remember the worn away rock - the rock is water - how can it not remember itself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Spotless, Your reply sounds like a two part contradiction, via affirming and then shifting to nihilistic rubbish? Btw, water enjoys rocks I'd add that the saying is more along the lines of "Love thine enemy" thus see your enemy in a new way which turns a conflict upside down and inside out. Edited August 23, 2015 by 3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 From 3bob --------- End Quote ----- This is the meaning of " Give us this day our daily bread" It is an affirmation of life and participation in it. Suffering / friction / temperature / pressure / flow / time / space - mind is nothing - it will find nothing - it will bear no fruit- it was always barren, has no answer - clarifies nothing - it is the rock being beaten. Does the water remember the worn away rock - the rock is water - how can it not remember itself? Then how are you writing these words ? How are you putting forward an assertion if the mind clarifies nothing ? That just another version of the same old 'everything is subjective and nothing exists independently' argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 Aren't we all up early in the morning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 Aren't we all up early in the morning... It's 1 o clock in the afternoon here. A bright, warm, sunny Sunday. Had a migraine yesterday which has left be a touch debilitated or I would be outside sanding down the windows. Instead I'm sat inside writing bullshit whilst I watch my beautiful wife working on the windows instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Mind is like an elaborate braking system - spinning slot machines with brake pads. The dazzling "accomplishments of mind" are not of mind - they reflect an assemblage of flows stopped and viewed - labeled and matriculated. The more "dazzling the mind" the less that mind will value mind - for it will know well that it is not the spring of the fruits. Edited August 23, 2015 by Spotless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 Mind is like an elaborate braking system - spinning slot machines with brake pads. The dazzling "accomplishments of mind" are not of mind - they reflect an assemblage of flows stopped and viewed - labeled and matriculated. The more "dazzling the mind" the less that mind will value mind - for it will know well that it is not the spring of the fruits. That just sounds like none sense to me. Can you define any of that in lay mans terms ? "Dazzling accomplishments" ? "The less the mind will value the mind" ? "The fruits" ? I can see that perhaps you mean the flows are thoughts ? That the labels are definitions of concepts ? Is that what you mean ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 That just sounds like none sense to me. Can you define any of that in lay mans terms ? "Dazzling accomplishments" ? "The less the mind will value the mind" ? "The fruits" ? I can see that perhaps you mean the flows are thoughts ? That the labels are definitions of concepts ? Is that what you mean ? -------- Flows are not thoughts - if one can get out of the way of mind - the conduits of intuition and that which is available in geometric forms at speeds no mind can comprehend - these flows come to mind and intuition guides the best of mind when to brake for a new paradigm or compilation. The more one is able to do this the more it becomes apparent that what one was taking for mind is more mechanism - a viewing system - unless of course one is positioned and enjoys upholding positions - then mind loves mind and dwells within its noise and is diminished and a slaver. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 -------- Flows are not thoughts - if one can get out of the way of mind - the conduits of intuition and that which is available in geometric forms at speeds no mind can comprehend - these flows come to mind and intuition guides the best of mind when to brake for a new paradigm or compilation. The more one is able to do this the more it becomes apparent that what one was taking for mind is more mechanism - a viewing system - unless of course one is positioned and enjoys upholding positions - then mind loves mind and dwells within its noise and is diminished and a slaver. Intuition is just a feeling, you can feel something isn't right in some way but it has to be investigated to discover why that feeling has arisen. It points to an internal contradiction. Geometric forms are 2 or 3 dimensional constructions. The mind isn't a separate entity it's where thoughts manifest and are presented in conscious awareness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 Some of the great thinkers / inventors will say their best ideas came during sleep - it is not "the power of the unconscious mind" that is at work - it is the power of getting out of the way. Great conduits of possibility have been brought to bare within a refined braking system - a braking system able to work with what is possible to view and hopefully not to framed within convention - many of "the greatest minds" were not initially given great prospects. And often these "great minds" give little credit of their accomplishments either to themselves or their minds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Intuition is just a feeling, you can feel something isn't right in some way but it has to be investigated to discover why that feeling has arisen. It points to an internal contradiction. Geometric forms are 2 or 3 dimensional constructions. The mind isn't a separate entity it's where thoughts manifest and are presented in conscious awareness. ------- My statements here a quite specifically for both you Karl and 3bob - your quote above reflects your as yet un-refined understanding or no understanding of intuition. You have never attained to your knowledge the mathematical visual language of "no mind" and "knowing" so the reference to Geometric forms falls on cardboard. The two sentences above your last sentence negates the possibility that you understand what you wrote in the last sentence. Edited August 25, 2015 by Spotless 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 Some of the great thinkers / inventors will say their best ideas came during sleep - it is not "the power of the unconscious mind" that is at work - it is the power of getting out of the way. Great conduits of possibility have been brought to bare within a refined braking system - a braking system able to work with what is possible to view and hopefully not to framed within convention - many of "the greatest minds" were not initially given great prospects. And often these "great minds" give little credit of their accomplishments either to themselves or their minds. That isn't correct. The mind stores concepts created from experience. These concepts are building blocks that can be integrated to bring new insights. Provided the thinker is clear about the concepts which they admit, then the easier is the integration. The more rubbish is admitted the more bad integrations are made. So, even a mind not skilled in certain facets can make leaps that are not possible by the mind which is occupied with trying to integrate false concepts. It's simple really, just like any computer Rubbish in means rubbish out. It becomes cumulative errors compounded on more errors. If intuition is repressed then these errors pile up and the intuition becomes useless except to fire off warnings incessantly. It's like a process in which the products, machinery and motors are so snarled up that warning klaxons and lights are no longer indicating one simple fault, but multiplicities of faults. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 quasi-zen mixed with 4th way fragments make a strange porridge 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 ------- My statements here a quite specifically for both you Karl and 3bob - your quote above reflects your as yet un-refined understanding or no understanding of intuition. You have never attained to your knowledge the mathematical visual language of "no mind" and "knowing" so the reference to Geometric forms falls on cardboard. The two sentences above your last sentence negates the possibility that you understand what you wrote in the last sentence. I'm very clear in my perceptions, I have no contradictions and everything is transparent. I don't need all these concepts of 'no mind' and 'knowing', things are far simpler than all that fluff and confusion. Geometry is geometry. Intuition is a feeling. If you believe intuition is something else then you must accurately define it so we can all converse on that plane otherwise we could be miles apart. When you talk in terms of 'unrefined understanding' or 'no understanding' doesn't wash with me. If you are capable of knowing then so am I all you need is to communicate your concept clearly. If you cannot then you are using obsfscuration to cover your own inability to define your concept-you either haven't ever defined it, or you realise that you cannot define it adequately and are blustering. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 quasi-zen mixed with 4th way fragments make a strange porridge What are 4th way fragments ? I understand 3rd way the Hegel dialectic thesis, antithesis and synthesis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 That isn't correct. The mind stores concepts created from experience. These concepts are building blocks that can be integrated to bring new insights. Provided the thinker is clear about the concepts which they admit, then the easier is the integration. The more rubbish is admitted the more bad integrations are made. So, even a mind not skilled in certain facets can make leaps that are not possible by the mind which is occupied with trying to integrate false concepts. It's simple really, just like any computer Rubbish in means rubbish out. It becomes cumulative errors compounded on more errors. If intuition is repressed then these errors pile up and the intuition becomes useless except to fire off warnings incessantly. It's like a process in which the products, machinery and motors are so snarled up that warning klaxons and lights are no longer indicating one simple fault, but multiplicities of faults. ---- This is clearly what is correct for you - I understand the view - it is cardboard to me - arguable cardboard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted August 23, 2015 What are 4th way fragments ? I understand 3rd way the Hegel dialectic thesis, antithesis and synthesis I would assume Gurdieff/ Ouspensky stuff? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Spotless is probably touching on a type of "geometry" (so to speak) in terms of the 4th way teachings, which btw is where Mr. O first used the term "lost fragments" in a title related to one of his ground-breaking books that he began before the Russian Revolution. (although not published until much later) Edited August 23, 2015 by 3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted August 23, 2015 Spotless is probably touching on a type of "geometry" (so to speak) in terms of the 4th way teachings, which btw is where Mr. O first used the term "lost fragments" in a title related to one of his ground-breaking books that he began before the Russian Revolution. You don't half learn some stuff on this forum. Time to do some digging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 23, 2015 actually the "law of seven" and the "law of three" and the enneagram are profound Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kubba Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) If you believe intuition is something else then you must accurately define it so we can all converse on that plane otherwise we could be miles apart. Intuition is intuition, flow is flow feelings are feelings and definitions are definitions. You know it or you don't. Spotless is gentle with you and you fight cause you want to have right but better would be to simply say "thank you for explanation". And dont repeat on and on what you have read about all this self stuff, everyone here see that these words you use are not yours and that you don't understand them. Some mental masturbation going on on your side... Instead of trolling you could soften your shell and learn something from people here. better find out why do you want to have right all the time, cause someone has taught you this. this investigation will bring you fruits. Now you will defend yourself. Now you wil say sonmething neglecting, now... Etc Edited August 23, 2015 by Kubba 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
