Thank you, Dao Bums

[yellow-phoenix]

Happy to discover the collective insight here. Seems the more I learn, the less I know! Nutshell back story: Learned about Taoism 25 yrs ago. Became seriously disabled by Neuro disorder in 2005--single mom, mostly homebound in a wheelchair. Last yr found a therapeutic Taiji specialist who taught me meditation, QiGong, and Taiji. Health has been significantly restored! Wish to connect with others who share this path. Grateful to Dao Bums for providing opportunity!

[Chang]

Hello and welcome. You are accepted. Glad to have you as a member.

 

Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Chang and the TTB team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Michael Sternbach]

Welcome to TDB, yellow-phoenix!

 

I am always impressed by people who manage to overcome severe obstacles with the help of meditation, Qigong, Taiji and other things of that kind. Your username tells your story.

[yellow-phoenix]

Thanks, Star-Lord. Humbling to think about how many people over the course of several centuries have discovered, developed, refined, and shared these insights and practices. I'm lucky to have stumbled across their powerful gifts. So grateful for their discipline, determination, and generosity! Inspiring, really.

 

And yes, I'm a sucker for symbolism. For me, both the color yellow and Phoenix (Fenghuang) symbolize a powerful completeness.

[manitou]

Welcome - my heart jumped when it saw your location - East of the Sun, West of the Moon.  That was my very favorite fairy tale as a child.   I look forward to seeing you on the threads.

[Gerard]

Most welcome.

 

We are all in the same boat, everyone.

 

Happy practice and mindful living!

[yellow-phoenix]

Right on, Gerard! So easy to fall into an illusion of aloneness.

 

Manitou, happy to see that you enjoyed the reference!  The line is also in Lord of the Rings as part of a song--and a fitting sentiment for those of us who have discovered lesser known paths:

 

"Still round the corner there may wait

A new road or a secret gate.

And though I oft have passed them by,

A day will come at last when I

Shall take the hidden paths that run

West of the Moon, East of the Sun."

 

Thank you both for your kind welcomes!

[manitou]

The funny thing, YellowPhoenix, is that my life greatly reenacted that fairy tale.  And yes - it has been a lesser known path -

[hod]

Welcome - my heart jumped when it saw your location - East of the Sun, West of the Moon.  That was my very favorite fairy tale as a child.

 

Don't know if you know, but Donovan covers the song on his HMS Donovan album.

 

A link to the song on YouTube:

[yellow-phoenix]

Hod, thanks so much for posting that! Hadn't heard that Donovan tune ("The Seller of Stars") before. Seems our obscure tale of mystical collaboration gets around! Also diggin' your Hurly Burly quote about keepin' it real. Reminds me a little of Socrates: "Be as you wish to seem." Endless fun with illusion/delusion!

 

Manitou, sounds like you've led a rich and eventful life. Hope you've landed in a place of contentedness--"happy" ending or not. (In the end, things are what they are, right? Have you seen the vid of Alan Watts' "Story of the Chinese Farmer"?

)

 

Hod, how did you embed the YouTube video in your post? I can't seem to paste anything into the dialog box. Thankful for any help figuring this out.

[hod]

Hod, how did you embed the YouTube video in your post? I can't seem to paste anything into the dialog box. Thankful for any help figuring this out.

 

You just go to the youtube page for the video you want, copy and past the link in the the browser address bar. Then just paste that into your response and it should show up automatically (honestly, I was just going to paste a link, but the whole video showed up ).

[Brian]

<snip>

Hod, how did you embed the YouTube video in your post? I can't seem to paste anything into the dialog box. Thankful for any help figuring this out.

The server-side software this forum uses struggles with one particular version of Internet Explorer and this bug in the forum software prevents pasting or quoting (via the "Quote" button) into the dialog box IF you are in rich-text mode. There is a workaround -- you can toggle into plain-text mode with the top-level button on the dialog box's format button-bar and then Quote and paste work fine.

 

Alternatively, you can use a different web browser (or upgrade...)

[Daeluin]

Right on, Gerard! So easy to fall into an illusion of aloneness.

 

Manitou, happy to see that you enjoyed the reference!  The line is also in Lord of the Rings as part of a song--and a fitting sentiment for those of us who have discovered lesser known paths:

 

"Still round the corner there may wait

A new road or a secret gate.

And though I oft have passed them by,

A day will come at last when I

Shall take the hidden paths that run

West of the Moon, East of the Sun."

 

Thank you both for your kind welcomes!

 

Aha, how wonderful and fitting are these walking songs!

 

Too, how fitting for the journey of the return to the mysterious. In daoist symbology the mysterious heart is obscured by the cycling of different phases of energy transformation and the resulting "creations". The return involves balancing these phases to oneness through winding back what has unraveled - the key to reuniting the manifested sun (fire) and moon (water) back to heaven and earth lies in the extracting and merging of what is east of one and west of the other (wood and metal). This is also related to the dots of the taiji symbol, which explain the operation of the 6 breaths / directions of energy.

 

Too, we might see parallels in the Lay of Leithian [release from bondage] to the Arthurian Grail Legends, and so many more, to the spiritual cultivation of the radiant gem that is true unity.

 

Behold! the hope of Elvenland

the fire of Fëanor, Light of Morn

before the sun and moon were born,

thus out of bondage came at last,

from iron to mortal hand it passed.

[manitou]

Don't know if you know, but Donovan covers the song on his HMS Donovan album.

 

A link to the song on YouTube:

 

 

Hod, I don't remember the song, but thank you, thank you, thank you.  Not only did it give legs to my East of the Sun, West of the  Moon memory, the gentle sound of Donovan's voice shot me back into the '60's like a slingshot.

 

Yellow-phoenix, I do believe the fairy tale was an awfully early and important imprint.  I married a skid-row wino (my 'troll', if you remember the story) 30 years ago.  On the other side of the coin, I was his 'troll', his jailer.  We've stuck it out for 30 years, both married to each other and not - and we've found a mutual metaphysical spirituality which made all the fairy tale reenactment worth it.

[yellow-phoenix]

Manitou- Sounds like the traditional tale served as a source of inspiration during your own true-life tale, then? Stories can be powerful and timeless teachers--informing our choices. Thank you for sharing your story. Also, thanks for the Krishnamurti quote!

 

And Daeluin, what a wealth of information you are! So much to digest from one post. : ) The balancing you refer to: Is that what is called "internal alchemy"? And please explain "the operation of the six breaths." Is that related to Six Healing Sounds QiGong? (Wild guess, there!) And what are the directions of energy? I only think of peng, lu, ji, an when I hear that. Likely unrelated...?? It's interesting that Taoism is both fundamentally simple and yet elaborately complex! Paradoxes abound.

 

What a gift to have found TheDaoBums: a site of ten thousand teachers!

[Daeluin]

The balancing you refer to: Is that what is called "internal alchemy"?

 

Some people call it internal alchemy.

Some people simply call it becoming real.

Some people look back upon it.

Others see it ahead as something new.

 

And please explain "the operation of the six breaths." Is that related to Six Healing Sounds QiGong? (Wild guess, there!) And what are the directions of energy?

 

Probably.

 

In the taiji symbol lesser yang grows into greater yang, lesser yin grows into greater yin, revolving around a common center. And yet as there are four distinct phases, inevitably they get sucked into revolving around each other, and our two dots of bright yang and terminal/emerging yin are born.

 

In some ways this represents a pivot between that which has no distinction between self and other, and the crystallization of that which recognizes in itself an inside and an outside.

 

The Hexagrams of the I Ching have 6 lines, originating from Trigrams with 3 lines. The symbols of the trigrams represent elemental forces, and there is one line in each trigram representing the heart of that elemental force. The symbols of the hexagrams represent the interaction of these elemental forces together - one trigram on the bottom represents the internal dynamic, and another trigram on top represents the external dynamic. Perhaps the symbology here is related to the detailed dance of the dots of the taiji symbol.

 

Zhuangzi speaks of riding upon "the six atmospheric breaths" as though one needs to depend upon naught else, and martial artists teach of working with the six directions of energy in terms of up, down, left, right, forward, back - all the things necessary to describe an inside and an outside in a time-space delineated reality, and upon a planetary body navigating such a reality.

 

The cantonqi (tl Fabrizio Pregadio) begins:

 

 

Qian and Kun, Kan and Li

 

"Qian ☰ and Kun ☷ are the door and the gate of change,"

the father and the mother of all hexagrams.

Kan ☵ and Li ☲ are the inner and the outer walls,

they spin the hub and align the axle.

Female and male, these four trigrams

function as a bellows and its nozzles.

 

 

and a few stanzas down:

 

 

Kan and Li, the functions of Qian and Kun

 

"Heaven and Earth establish their positions, and change occurs within them."

 

"Heaven and Earth" are the images of Qian ☰ and Kun ☷.

"Establish their positions" means that they arrange themselves in the

positions for the joining of Yin and Yang. "Change" means Kan ☵ and Li ☲;

Kan and Li are the two functions of Qian and Kun.

 

The two functions have no fixed positions in the lines:

"flowing in cycles they go through the six empty spaces."

As their coming and going are not determinate,

so too "their ascent and descent are not constant."

 

 

and back to the beginning, second stanza:

 

 

The artisan and the charioteer

 

Enfolding and encompassing the Way of Yin and Yang

is like being an artisan and a charioteer

who level the marking-cord and the plumb-line,

hold the bit and the bridle,

align the compass and the square,

and follow the tracks and the ruts.

 

Abide in the Center to control the outside:

the numbers are found in the system of the pitch-pipes and the calendar.

 

 

12 notes in the chromatic scale;

12 months in the calendar.

Also 12 meridians in the body.

 

Simply the polarity of six.

 

In the system of the chinese energy calendar, there is the celestial energy, and the earthly energy. The celestial energy is simply the cycling of energy without identity - the four phases of the circle, bound by the center - the "5 elemental forces":

Water represents the origin, potential energy.

Wood represents the expansion of energy into operation.

Fire represents the expression of that energy.

Metal represents the return of that energy after expression.

 

When Fire expresses, manifests a transformation of the energy, it creates a turning point that is directly related to the seed it was born from in the beginning. Thus as soon as Fire culminates, it marks the end of the phase of growth and marks the beginning of the return, and all of this is related to the creation of Earth, the center.

 

When there is no attachment, no self or other, transformation between these phases is complete and leaves nothing behind.

 

When there is attachment, a center is defined and guarded, and at each stage earth is guiding the way to protect and preserve this pre-existing center. Earth controls water by means of guiding where it flows, creates the direction for the settling energy of the metal phase to follow, and this metal as it returns to water holds the blueprint of the previous manifestations, thereby acting as a seed for guiding the next growth of wood, even as earth provides a foundation for wood to plant its roots. Too earth controls water, which gathered in the right way will allow no fire.

 

In the system of the calendar, the "10 celestial stems" represent the flow of celestial energies through the transformations of the 5 elements - yang water, yin water, yang wood, yin wood, etc. The "12 earthly branches" represent the flow of celestial energies when they are attached within a system like physical reality. Every phase of this self-other polarity holds within it all 10 celestial stems, but due to their fixed nature, these branches can only express some of these celestial stems at any given time. Thus the 12 earthly branches are like boxes that express in specific ways, similar to the seasons. There are 12 because there is an extra set: 2 yin earths and 2 yang earths, and in the cycle through all 12 the earths are positioned between the other four elements, ever pointing to the center.

 

And so we have this idea of 5 as a celestial concept, with six representing the encrustation of the celestial into the material. Between both lies the original root.  The 6 atmospheric breaths, the 6 directions of energy, are where the celestial flows through the material.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Daeluin

[daomon]

Neuro disorder? No problem. Paida Lajin is the answer.

 

You can supplement it with cupping therapy, that's what I would do.

 

Both remove the yin energy, and the yang energy will naturally heal you.

 

Almost instant results!

[yellow-phoenix]

Daomon: Thank you for the advice. In my Taiji class we do a slapping exercise from Grandmaster Feng Zhi Qiang called Paida Gong. It is part of his longer QiGong set (see below). Is that similar to Paida Laijin? My acupuncturist has given me cupping treatments. Is that what you are referring to? I have sometimes heard the slapping technique referred to as "cupping," too. I'm excited to learn more about both! Thanks for taking the time to post this. Ever refining the Gong.

Massage for Health with Qi

17. Circulate the Sun and Moon (xuen/ zhuan~ ri\ yue\ gong-)

18. Wash the Head (xi~ tou/ shun\ qi\ jian\ nao~ gong-)

19. Massage Internal Organs (xiong/bu\ shun\qi\ wu~zhang\ yun\mo/ gong-)

20. Face Massage for Health (bao~ jian\ gong -) 

21. Slap and Hit Acupuncture Points (pai- da~ gong-)  

            a. Shoulder Well (jiian jing)

            b. Joining of the Valleys (hegu)

            c. Inner Gate (neiguan)

            d. Arm Three Miles (shou san li)

            e. Extreme Fountain (ji quan)                                    

            f. Gate of Life (ming men)                         

            g. Jumping Circle (huan tiao)

            h. City of Wind (feng shi)

            i. Leg Three Miles (sanli)

            j. Perfect Equilibrium (weizhong)

22. Shake Your Tail Feathers (dou ling)

[yellow-phoenix]

Daeluin, reading your post was like opening a many-layered present. Thank you for such a thorough explanation. I have been rereading it and letting it sink in. So many dots to connect!

 

Some people call it internal alchemy. Some people simply call it becoming real. Some people look back upon it. Others see it ahead as something new.

 

Wondering if I understand this idea. Since learning meditation and QiGong, powerful and amazing things have happened that I didn't know to expect (thus looking back and realizing). But those surprises led me to act with new intention--working toward specific outcomes (thus looking ahead). Of course, that so often gives rise to its own suprises, continuing the cycle... Is that what you mean?

 

"Qian ☰ and Kun ☷ are the door and the gate of change,"

the father and the mother of all hexagrams.

Kan ☵ and Li ☲ are the inner and the outer walls,

they spin the hub and align the axle.

Female and male, these four trigrams

function as a bellows and its nozzles.

 

Is this why these pairs lie opposite each other at the cardinal directions in the Fuxi Earlier Heaven bagua? You sound very knowledgable about the nature of the trigrams and their relationships with one another. If you don't mind me asking, do you practice I Ching?

 

I hope you can be patient with my learning curve. It helps me to move beyond the intellectual mind and understand these things at a gut level. When I started learning Taiji last year, I was taught to distinguish yin from yang in our form, where yin and yang flow into one another as you described. One feels it deeply, like an ocean tide swelling and receding internally, reflecting the outer movements. For me, this awareness has informed an expanded experience of everything--seasons, pain, moon phases, relationships... In the nature of this constant movement I find a tranquil acceptance not dissimilar to the Buddhist idea of impermanence. Wu wei follows naturally. When insights (like yours) become part of my mindless understanding, only then do I feel like I truly grasp the concepts. Looooong way to go! It is indeed a delightful journey, East of the Sun and West of the Moon.

[Daeluin]

Daeluin, reading your post was like opening a many-layered present. Thank you for such a thorough explanation. I have been rereading it and letting it sink in. So many dots to connect!

 

 

Wondering if I understand this idea. Since learning meditation and QiGong, powerful and amazing things have happened that I didn't know to expect (thus looking back and realizing). But those surprises led me to act with new intention--working toward specific outcomes (thus looking ahead). Of course, that so often gives rise to its own suprises, continuing the cycle... Is that what you mean?

Sure! There are so many layers, and we can follow them toward their beginnings or their endings, layers emerging in every direction. That which shows itself is often the surface of something deeper, and thus the discerning reality revolves around learning to sense beyond the surface, learning to see between the lines, learning to see from all perspectives instead of just one.

 

So it is internal alchemy from one perspective, and something else from a different perspective. All discernments may be considered right or wrong from some perspective, so understanding is less about attaching to the knowledge than it is about fuel to carry one's vehicle closer to merging with the dance of the heavenly mechanism, simply becoming one with all, as one's own unique position and timing directs.

Is this why these pairs lie opposite each other at the cardinal directions in the Fuxi Earlier Heaven bagua?

In the pre-celestial arrangement Kan and Li are positioned across the axis of Qian and Kun. As the energies of Qian and Kun interact, they manifest through the nozzles of Kan and Li - these inner and outer walls are like the two dots in the taiji symbol. Kan represents an abyss, or pit, or gravity where the middle yang line from Qian gets sucked into and hidden. Li represents the separation of that middle yang line where Qian has lost the true yang and been replaced by the true yin contained within Kun.

 

Thus as these nozzles operate in the direction of creation, we look at the post-celestial arrangement of the bagua, where Kan and Li form the primary axis, and where heaven and earth have come to represent slightly different roles, and where the new cross axis has become Zhen and Dui, which come to be new nozzles in their own way, in terms of hiding the key to returning the true back through the nozzles of Kan and Li to return to the dynamic of Qian and Kun on a deeper layer of reality.

You sound very knowledgable about the nature of the trigrams and their relationships with one another. If you don't mind me asking, do you practice I Ching?

Oh I don't know very much, only been studying for a few years. I'm told it is a lifetime pursuit.

 

In terms of realization, I find I learn the most when I forget what I know and surrender my questions. Then all these answers and transformations come from deep within on their own.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Daeluin