Kundalini Awakening verses Spiritual Awakening

[Kiwi Ninja]

Hello all,

 

I have a question. Until recently I have thought that a kundalini awakening is a different thing than someone having a spiritual awakening.

 

My understanding is that a spiritual awakening is a sort of clarity that comest to the mind where you understand and experience your true nature. It could come after doing some sort of meditative practice or a practice like self-inquiry. Or, in yet other cases, it can just happen.

 

My understanding of a kundalini awakening is some sort energetic thing where energy runs up the spine. It can effect people emotionally, sometimes negatively.

 

Lately I have been listening to many of the Budha at the Gas Pump interviews. And what I have noticed is that while there are definitely many people who either have one or the other, there also seem to be more than a few people who talk about them interchangeably as if they were connected or in some cases one in the same thing.

 

To me, they sound like two very different things. Especially since there seem to be many people who have had an awakening but make no mention of kundalini. So I'm a little confused.

 

Can you spiritually educated people bring some

light to this for me?

[GreytoWhite]

This might be a good place to start.

 

http://yogicengineering.com/2014/09/21/power-generation-methods/

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Part of the difficulty here is defining 'awakening'. Different people and different traditions have different - in some cases utterly contradictory - opinions on what awakening is about. From a Buddhist perspective, I might say it involves recognizing that all experience without exception is impermanent, not worth grasping, and not 'me' or 'mine'. Many people along this path describe energetic phenomena, but it seems to me to be more an effect of awakening than a cause for it. 

 

You may find this interesting: http://integrateddaniel.info/the-arising-and-passing-away/

[SonOfTheGods]

Once you're "Awake" - it doesn't really matter anymore

[Spotless]

Hello all,

I have a question. Until recently I have thought that a kundalini awakening is a different thing than someone having a spiritual awakening.

My understanding is that a spiritual awakening is a sort of clarity that comest to the mind where you understand and experience your true nature. It could come after doing some sort of meditative practice or a practice like self-inquiry. Or, in yet other cases, it can just happen.

My understanding of a kundalini awakening is some sort energetic thing where energy runs up the spine. It can effect people emotionally, sometimes negatively.

Lately I have been listening to many of the Budha at the Gas Pump interviews. And what I have noticed is that while there are definitely many people who either have one or the other, there also seem to be more than a few people who talk about them interchangeably as if they were connected or in some cases one in the same thing.

To me, they sound like two very different things. Especially since there seem to be many people who have had an awakening but make no mention of kundalini. So I'm a little confused.

Can you spiritually educated people bring some

light to this for me?

This is a good point of discussion:

Generally speaking Kundalini has always had association with a rising from the spine and it is when experienced in its more notable levels way beyond anything the normal human experiences in terms of energy in their life. It is often described using such words as

"lightning" and that is an apt descriptor for some of the experiences. The nearest thing we experience in terms of the power is if we are nearly electrocuted from a 110v power source - it is a Very powerful energy that will surprise anyone that it is even possible our bodies could produce such an enormous current. Typically the initial blast is followed by an accomidation to the energy - if it was brought about by force such as certain sustained breathing techniques the consequences can take people years to recover from.

 

Other subtle forms of Kundalini are present everyday and in part of the confusion many energies are labeled together as in "we are all energy".

 

Buddha at the Gas Pump (batgap.com) is an extremely important archive of Western people who in their own words tell of their sustained awakening experience. These are not interviews with people who have had just insightful awakening experiences - they have Awakened (some of the interviews are with ordinary "interesting" people and are not Awakened).

 

The interviews offer a deep insight into the process in our own western language and they offer those in practice and transition the possibility of finding an Awakened teacher - and one who speaks to us.

On another note - it allows us to see what jealousy and competition comes up in our judgement as we see everyday westerners "with the audacity to state that they have Awakened".

 

Yet it is quite clear they have awakened if it has happened to you - and the many different colors it takes is exciting and wonderful to hear fresh, untranslated and not put on a pedestal. It's so raw we find it difficult to accept - it is so foreign to the translations and pedestalized portrayals we have been absorbing into our judgement apparatus.

 

If you have been in transition to the Awakened state- getting used to it - it is immensely helpful to have over 300 interviews with people such as yourself who have had more time to adjust and who have adjusted in various ways for you to see and explore.

 

Kundalini experiences preceded some sustained awakening transitions in the interviews - it is no doubt a clearing energy and at once the door for transition on a sustained level. But it is definitely not necessary and the experience came come quite suddenly in other forms. One can have a huge transition of energy but it is suddenly throughout the whole expanse of the subtle bodies and extends well out into the air around ones body. It is like having the power of a thousand tigers in extraordinary calm residing within and without.

The transition can also come in one wave after another for a very long time - daily massive transitions that can proceed for years.

Absolutely mind boggling knockouts one after another in ever increasing and sustained doses.

Some of the on going changes are more subtle but equally powerful, like one day realizing residual patterns that seem to carry on are now gone - deeply imbedded things. One might have been raped by her father and suddenly it is not only de-energized but the entire event is seen in a positive neutral light and from an understanding not possible prior to awakening. Whole embedded positions become dead and lifeless - one no longer has any inertia in them.

 

It is not necessary to categorize the different energies and for the most part as you do so you wall in expectation and incorrect assumption. Generally Kundalini is explosive and decisive - my first experience with it was when I was around 10 or 11 years old - it came up my spine and flashed through my eyes like a lightening strike - I feared for my eyes and had no idea what had just happened.

 

On another occasion I was meditating for about 14 hours when quite suddenly I was blown out the top of my head and sat atop a volcano of energy about a foot or so above my head - as I slowly settled back amazing experiences continued and I continued in mediation for another 4 hours.

 

On another occasion I suddenly found myself moving into an old yoga pose that I would not have thought possible at the time - the one where you are inverted in an arch hands behind your head and stomach chest facing the sky and you are off the ground). My entire energetic bodies were in technicolor in extreme clarity.

 

In the Awakening experience day upon day whole chunks of me fell away - I was meditating every day for typically 3-6 hours and it has not ended - years now. Massive changes - constantly.

It is not a "mind" thing - though for many it must seem to be and obviously the meaning of "mind" is a thousand times more blurred than Kundalini.

 

For many it seems to be a mind thing because if they have not done a fair amount of practice then for them the changes will seem primarily "of the mind" while in fact they are primarily "of habit" which are far more physical animal than assumed. They appear to be of the mind because that is what races our mind for the most part - animal physical petty stuff - positions that mechanically defend themselves - vanity and abounding fear.

 

We are far less profound than we "think" and far more profound than we hope.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Spotless

[Jeff]

Hi Kiwi Ninja,

 

I think it is important to realize that people can have vast differences in what they consider awakening. Additionally, with energy movement there are big differences and often some like to consider some simple energy flow as a major kundalini experience. Using similar words, does not necessarily mean the same level of realization.

 

 

Best,

Jeff

Edited August 29, 2015 by Jeff

[Spotless]

What has been missing in so many translations and stories of Awakening to those of us in the West is the actual happening, the days and weeks following.

We have heard many general accounts but not things like - "the great master (fill in the blank) upon awakening went around nude hugging trees and crying for several days". This is an actual account from one of the most renoun teachers of all time (though I cannot remember which one at this time:))

 

Awakening is very different than having an Awakening experience - what is interesting if you listen to a great number of the interviews at Batgap.com is that they have remarkably similar elements set in remarkably different humans. They contain the same elements of the most enlightened beings that have come to us.

 

The message is always the same - some speak to us and some may repel us.

 

The message is clear - you can wake up at any time - it may be from long practice in this life or from long practice in a previous life.

It may be from practice that comes from simply enduring. It may knock you to the floor and you might think you are having a heart attack, you may need seven years in a cave to come out of it, it might happen while in meditation or when looking for a job online.

 

It might happen over a long stretch and it might happen in an instant - and afterward you may continue to expand or you may come to what you know as a conclusion. Our inclination is to put awakening / Enlightenment on an untouchable pedestal - yet EVERY teacher in every land in all of history has told us not to do this - "the kingdom of heaven is at hand".

[Nikolai1]

Our inclination is to put awakening / Enlightenment on an untouchable pedestal - yet EVERY teacher in every land in all of history has told us not to do this - "the kingdom of heaven is at hand".

So true! This issue interests me a lot why some people not only consider enlightenment impossible, but actively discourage people from thinking it is.

 

For example, Jesus promised all his followers that they will 'do all that he has done and more', also said that 'they would sit beside him' as a brother, a kind of co-worker.

 

But anyone who actuallly takes this literally would be accused of blasphemy, gross spiritual pride or even madness.

 

It seems it takes a great deal of maturity before we can recognise that enlightenment is an actual possibility.  It's almost like we have to subliminally sense its reality first before we can start to pursue it.

 

Some people simply can't sense it in themselves.

[Mandrake]

This topic doesn't belong in the Esoteric and Occult Discussion since this area is for the Western Arts.

Should be moved to the General section, or Hindu.

 

 

M

[Spotless]

This topic doesn't belong in the Esoteric and Occult Discussion since this area is for the Western Arts.

Should be moved to the General section, or Hindu.

 

 

M

 

Seems like an odd statement - it is pretty much a root question of such discussion. Perhaps the meaning of Esoteric and occult have changed in 40 years. 40 years ago everything in here in the bums would be pretty much only found in an Occult Bookstore where the more Esoteric teachings could be found. You went there for the latest from India, China, Japan - as well as all the old stuff and also to find BE HERE NOW and see who was lecturing or what groups were active. Regular bookstores did not carry the stuff and their was no internet.

[AussieTrees]

Thankyou Kiwi Ninja,what a excellent topic.

 

Enlightenment?

No never experienced any lightning.

No never experienced any kundalini.

Yet I feel enlightened?

How can that be?

Sometimes can see the near future,and able to take actions to avoid mishap.

For this I am humbled

No not even a halo,yet feel no discouragement,still happy and content.

No formal meditation,yet there is a sense of meditation all the time.

 

Not possible,enlightenment is not for all,well maybe not all at the same time.

[Kubba]

.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Kubba

[Spotless]

So true. People often don't talk to much about details of awakening cause these things are embarassing. When I had some first days of it, I was also walking in the forest and hugging trees, singing and screaming for some days and laughting so strong that I lost my consciousnes 2 times cause of amount of emotions. Then these events are increasing, on and on as you said, and it is just exhausting. But there came also some kinesthetic clarification with preceiving the world, existence....

Walking naked too, but already in a psychiatric hospital.

Then not being able to work for some months, or years in some cases, sitting in the park whole day, watching the world around and thinking - "what is it? How is it possible?"

 

 

 

And it is really exciting when you came across batgap or this forum and you hear that someone is talking about the same events, yet not necessary in the same order.

In the literature there are very dry descriptions of kundalini, and when it actually happends it just blows your mind, and left you not able to say any word.

I just wanted to say I never found it "exhausting" - pretty much the opposite - sustained and generally exhilarating, stunning and/or pervading stillness.

 

It is interesting that here in the West - many who Awaken seek counsel with psychiatry (I am not relating this aspect to you Kubba) - they have no idea what has just happened - and neither do the professionals from Western Medicine.

 

In the first stages of Awakening the shift from the inertia of the "noise body" - the chorus of position and mind loops we carry and who run our lives - this is suddenly gone. One has moved to no inertia, stillness and now - and it takes some time to acclimate to this.

From the outside it can look like lethargy, loss of ambition, loss of involvement in "the world" - and from within it can have a reflection of these feelings.

 

You quite suddenly have lost your story, are not attached to your positions, plan nothing, do not race forward in your thinking (because you are not thinking), thinking takes the back seat that is its natural place. It is replaced by awareness in the present and knowing and ones "schedule" stops.

 

This then proceeds into feeling your way in this and acclimating. It is a wonderful existence - profoundly different while remaining entirely the same. It is just that whole sectors of life are cardboard in nature - fictitious and no longer hold the fascination they had over you before. You are no longer set in that world - a world of polarities and separateness.

 

This is the first great step - it is entering into the enlightening - and a great many things come into play as well. Depending on the experience of the particular person the adaptation time varies considerably but usually it is at least 2 years and more often around 7 years.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[Jeff]

I just wanted to say I never found it "exhausting" - pretty much the opposite - sustained and generally exhilarating, stunning and/or pervading stillness.

It is interesting that here in the West - many who Awaken seek counsel with psychiatry (I am not relating this aspect to you Kubba) - they have no idea what has just happened - and neither do the professionals from Western Medicine.

In the first stages of Awakening the shift from the inertia of the "noise body" - the chorus of position and mind loops we carry and who run our lives - this is suddenly gone. One has moved to no inertia, stillness and now - and it takes some time to acclimate to this.

From the outside it can look like lethargy, loss of ambition, loss of involvement in "the world" - and from within it can have a reflection of these feelings.

You quite suddenly have lost your story, are not attached to your positions, plan nothing, do not race forward in your thinking (because you are not thinking), thinking takes the back seat that is its natural place. It is replaced by awareness in the present and knowing and ones "schedule" stops.

This then proceeds into feeling your way in this and acclimating. It is a wonderful existence - profoundly different while remaining entirely the same. It is just that whole sectors of life are cardboard in nature - fictitious and no longer hold the fascination they had over you before. You are no longer set in that world - a world of polarities and separateness.

This is the first great step - it is entering into the enlightening - and a great many things come into play as well. Depending on the experience of the particular person the adaptation time varies considerably but usually it is at least 2 years and more often around 7 years.

 

Hi Spotless,

 

Thank you for sharing. I do not mean to be rude, but what you are describing as awakening, is not what all eastern traditions consider awakening. It definitely describes going deeper in consciousness, but as an example, it would not be considered awakening in a tradition like Buddhism or Kashmir Shivaism.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

[thelerner]

I've often thought there were to different events, a physical 'kundaliniesque' akin to physical enlightenment and a mental enlightenment which might include a satori moment where on realizes the oness of all.   The two don't have to be separate but often are.  Seems to me physical enlightenment is certainly the drive in Kundalini yoga, Taoist energy meditations and esoteric Taoism (See Glen Morris who saw enlightenment in purely physical terms). 

 

Then there's a more Buddhist/religious/mystical approach where the psyche is greatly changed.  It may be debatable but I find a person like Eckhardt Tolle to be a good example.  Quiet, physically fragile but a man greatly removed from egotism. 

[Kubba]

.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Kubba

[Spotless]

Hi Spotless,

 

Thank you for sharing. I do not mean to be rude, but what you are describing as awakening, is not what all eastern traditions consider awakening. It definitely describes going deeper in consciousness, but as an example, it would not be considered awakening in a tradition like Buddhism or Kashmir Shivaism.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

Listen to the Westerners speak of it in their own words - unless you do not believe Tolle as an example is one of them.

Much happens that I have not mentioned such as the fears laid to waste - but what I have mentioned is in Western words - and when it occurs it is permanent abiding and very clear.

 

Additionally - words are not just inadequate - they do not even come close to a near miss. You could easily read the "top 100" masters accounts from the East and not have an ounce of an idea what they are speaking of.

 

It is the old saying - that I could describe the taste of an orange to someone - but they will have no real idea what it is like until they taste it themselves - in this case the analogy falls short because their are so many near examples of something like an Orange that you could advise they try. In the case of Awakening - it is so unlike the accounts that until it happens to you - you could not fathom how hard it is to put into words.

 

Once it has happened - you can see with great clarity what they were trying to convey - and you can even see the translation errors.

The errors abound - not one unawakened translator has a clue what they are translating.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Spotless

[Jeff]

Listen to the Westerners speak of it in their own words - unless you do not believe Tolle as an example is one of them.

Much happens that I have not mentioned such as the fears laid to waste - but what I have mentioned is in Western words - and when it occurs it is permanent abiding and very clear.

 

Additionally - words are not just inadequate - they do not even come close to a near miss. You could easily read the "top 100" masters accounts from the East and have not have an ounce of an idea what they are speaking of.

 

It is the old saying - that I could describe the taste of an orange to someone - but they will have no real idea what it is like until they taste it themselves - in this case the analogy falls short because their are so many near examples. In the case of Awakening - it is so unlike the accounts that until it happens to you - you could not fathom how hard it is to put into words.

 

Once it has happened - you can see with great clarity what they were trying to convey - and you can even see the translation errors.

The errors abound - not one unawakened translator has a clue what they are translating.

 

You some it up well and simply with the Tolle example. While this again may sound rude, he would not be considered awakened in many traditions.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

[Spotless]

It was both - excitement, amasement, and exhaustion/ fear. But after seeing some accounts, I consider my energetic awakening quite dramatic.

especialy after some rapid reorganisation of breath patterns and whole body muscle contractions, spasms like epilepsy attack that lasts for the whole day

The first burst of energy have lasted for around 2 weeks, then a month of not so powerfull stuff and then another heavy shot came, that lasted another 2 weeks, sometimes days and nights withouth sleeping and eating. Sometimes being in the forest, screaming some mantras in the middle of heavy rain and storm..

One day you think that it is the end, the final phenomena, but then, the next day it just increases, and new, greater layers show. (they show until now, but not so powerfull).

One day, when I thought that everything has calmed, and can go to the city withouth performing any strange things, suddenly I got paralyssis of one side of my body for one hour, so someone called an ambullance.

 

I meditated 2 months in total in this life time so not much preparation (durring one insight I saw that in some of the previous lifes I started to search), I did not know exactly whats going on, I have no idea about energetic transformations, there ws a lot of external negative pressure. so just wanted it to end

 

BUt these fears, and resistance just has gone in some moment as you said. Things just started to fall away, and they fall away continously. From intervievs of Batgp, the storry is like watching deja-vou.

 

I don't have much experience or understanding, but after all these phenomenas, a new quallity of preceiving of the world around shows. It is like learning not to have assumptions, cause it somehow hurts to have them. learning to "not know" anything, just sense, observing this naturall inteligence of the body and the world around, while new layers uncover. But people that knew you say - "you are as if withouth the life, you don't wan't anything, is everything allright with you?"

- "yes, am fine"

 

 

I guess that shrinks often came out of external pressure of enviroment. It was like that in my case. When people see you behaving "strange" way, it can be easy in these states to be convinced that something is wrong with you, especially if you have no idea what's going on.

 

And answering the title question - these things goes with each other. Energetical "awakening", and realisation. In my case it was (is) like that - the flash of realisation, then the energetic transformation, cause after seeing what is what, there is no longer space for blockages in bodies, so collorfull episodes occurs

It does not appear that we are talking of the same thing based on many things you have described in other postings - however your comments are welcome.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

You some it up well and simply with the Tolle example. While this again may sound rude, he would not be considered awakened in many traditions.

 

Best wishes, Jeff

Tolle, Adyshanti, Igor Kufayev - perhaps the traditions according to you would not consider them as such - but those from those traditions that have Awakened would indeed know them to be.

 

You are vested as was I in my research and effort - we are not as you think far apart in these studies. My head was immersed in them and my traditions are from them - Raja Yoga and travels to Tibet. If I were to pick from the Tibetian charts and charts from India - I could point out the progressions in my subtle bodies and my accord with those teachings.

 

As immersed as I was - most of my very large initial awakenings were so far from any explanations / translations that I had to experience them on my own with no recourse to established teaching on the experience - and teachers were clueless with few exceptions.

 

My head was put so very far into the air with intense quality controls and fear of wandering into delusion that I had to be fairly hit over the head with a club to see and admit what I had accomplished. I was so bound to not be entranced by siddhi's that I amassed them with no thought of accomplishment and often with little exploration.

When the big events took place - far greater than adding a siddhi - nothing had prepared me. Kundalini experiences were nothing by comparison - I have never really been able to describe the big stuff - it is would only relate to one who has experienced it.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

I've often thought there were to different events, a physical 'kundaliniesque' akin to physical enlightenment and a mental enlightenment which might include a satori moment where on realizes the oness of all. The two don't have to be separate but often are. Seems to me physical enlightenment is certainly the drive in Kundalini yoga, Taoist energy meditations and esoteric Taoism (See Glen Morris who saw enlightenment in purely physical terms).

 

Then there's a more Buddhist/religious/mystical approach where the psyche is greatly changed. It may be debatable but I find a person like Eckhardt Tolle to be a good example. Quiet, physically fragile but a man greatly removed from egotism.

It is both - it is a deeply physical change - and a deep Awareness change. We use the word Mental but this is inadequate - it is not mental but it does affect the mental aspect in awareness. Presence is not mental - presence for the most part is clouded by mental and as the mental element subsides and moves to its "proper" more simple bases Presence comes to the fore - in stillness without judgement. Later (generally) the heart rejoins this grouping of enlightening experiences to comprise enlightenment.

 

For Tolle it was deeply physical in just the experience that I outlined - nearly identical in his own words. It was also an alteration along the lines I just mentioned regarding Presence.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Kundalini Awakening is generally referred to as an "awakening experience" but it most cases it is not an Awakening Experience" but rather an experience of the Kundalini rising - it is awakening only in the sense that one does not go back to not knowing and wondering.

 

A Kundalini Rising is very real and clears out any doubt as to whether it exists or not - but most risings of Kundalini are nothing of the sort regarding Awakening. Yet Awakening experiences can have Hugh amonts of kundalini in the mix. I recently underwent such an event in a succession of events relating to Awakening.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[SonOfTheGods]

When mine erupted- sure seems like an 'eruption" too..........this was before the Internet.

There was just Gopi Krishna's book.

I didn't believe that Kundalini was real- thought it was just allegory

I had a hard time- walking through a room I felt the walls and ceiling, furniture

Kriyas hit me so hard I flopped off the couch a few times.

I had a low grade fever of 101 degrees for more than 6 months and lost about 20 pounds - constant heat, lights, sounds, voices, twitches, adrenal fatigue

My heart would do crazy things- I had an EKG and it turned up "weird" not abnormal, but not normal either (it's fine now though)

IMO- Leave Kundalini Alone!

 

Internal Alchemy will tweak it at a comfortable and sustainable pace- where the Yang Yin channels will acclimate it in a safer manner when the body(s) are ready

[Jetsun]

In a sense every time an element of consciousness which perceives itself as separate returns to unity then that is an awakening, so really it is a continual process of awakening for all people no matter where they are at.

 

So in that sense if Kundalini is moving into areas of separation within the body and liberating the separate identity contained within then that is facilitating awakening. But if there is significant resistance to the process the Kundalini could create a conflict or nightmare rather than awakening. The resistance is likely to come when we are deeply attached and trying to preserve and maintain our sense of separate self.

 

When one has "awakened" it is usually when it is seen on a fundamental level that the sense of separate self doesn't really exist, then something else wakes up as a permanent shift in identity. But even if one has gone through that fundamental shift there is still the same process as those who are not awake to go through, which is to wake up and liberate all the areas of consciousness which still exist within a sense of separation.

 

Many traditions give the impression that awakening or enlightenment is an all or nothing deal, where all of you wakes up all at once, but this doesn't seem to be the case in the experience of everyone I have ever seen or read about who speaks about their own experience, they talk about a continual process of continual awakening. For example the Zen Master Hakuin speaks about experiencing the "great death" not just once but seven times, after each one he thinks that's it, but then another one comes along going to a deeper level. 

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I can see where the "all or nothing deal" comes from.

 

Everytime I go to describe my "kundalini/awakening/enlightenment" experience, I think - where to begin? And I would have to begin at the beginning of everything.

 

It felt like I had solved a puzzle.

 

Or made a sacrifice (and thereby won an unexpected boon, but a sacrifice nonetheless).

 

Or seen truth with clarity.

 

My feeling is that the kundalini energy rose (and other unbelievable things happened) subsequent and in response to these meditative/contemplative events.

 

After a burst of energy and the strangest experiences, I was bedridden for two or three days experiencing spasms, strange bodily stiffness and other things. I felt my body was changing rapidly.

 

But since that first month or so, I have not had any debilitating or bothersome effects.

 

Other than going crazy, of course.

 

My take on that, is that it is all relative.

 

I could say a lot more, of course.

 

ps Hi to Kubba.

...

Edited September 6, 2015 by Captain Mar-Vell