How do Taoists handle enemies?

[Brian]

I don't think I have heard a more idiotic statement in a long time.

 

Are you saying even if they are in the act of trying to kill me, I should accept it and die? How about showing compassion by hacking back repaying the loan of energy to the universe by sending a wayward soul back?

Your original question was:

For example-- there are predators who simply like to pick on other people for whatever reason. They will express antagonistic behavior in various ways, sometimes by ridicule sometimes by overt aggression or criticism.

 

How can wuwei be applied here?

Was the question rhetorical?

[shanlung]

Are you saying even if they are in the act of trying to kill me, I should accept it and die?  How about showing compassion by hacking back repaying the loan of energy to the universe by sending a wayward soul back?

 

 

Let Wu Wei be the guiding light in such situation.

 

Beat the shit out of him and back into him, for proper balancing of his Ying and Yang.

 

Walk on and think no more of that situation as a man on the path of Wu Wei will do.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist not prepared to start troubles  but ready to end troubles

[Karl]

 I am following the path of taoism, so maybe you can do me the favor of not responding to my threads since we are not on the same path. 

 

Don't you believe that all paths are Tao ?

 

Is Tao a special path on which only the chosen embark ? :-)

 

Hearing the song but are blind to the bird.

[woodcarver]

Where did you read that? I don't remember that line from the Analects. 

I think it's from the D.C. Lau translation. But really dude, I'm just trying to enjoy my coffee.

[woodcarver]

I'll stir the pot again

 

Even the Dalai Lama said that if someone is trying to shoot you that it's reasonable to shoot back. (If that quote is accurate)

Edited September 6, 2015 by woodcarver

[Marblehead]

And besides, the Dalai Lama has security and those boys know how to do their thing.

 

And the Pope has more security than the Dalai Lama has.

[woodcarver]

And besides, the Dalai Lama has security and those boys know how to do their thing.

 

And the Pope has more security than the Dalai Lama has.

Touche

 

I think we're all just looking for a non violent way to handle violence, though. Very tricky.

[Marblehead]

In dealing with violence, best is to avoid it, next is to defend against it, last is to counter it.

[woodcarver]

Nice. This is probably one of the more relevant topics I've seen by the way.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

De-escalate conflicts at all times is a good strategy also, but it requires one to be able to de-escalate and properly handle one's own emotional surges. Getting angry is all right and even helpful, getting mean or trying to trigger reactions will usually explode in ones face.

 

There is no shame in walking away also. Any words thrown after you aren't yours and everybody hopefully live another day. Most dudes claim its a quality to never back from a confrontation, but it usually means they're ready to escalate some minor shit into something thats going to need medical attention. Confronting someone might be "i think you're wrong and i wish you wouldnt act like this, i'm leaving now because this is pointless."

[Bud Jetsun]

I don't think I have heard a more idiotic statement in a long time. 

 

Are you saying even if they are in the act of trying to kill me, I should accept it and die?  How about showing compassion by hacking back repaying the loan of energy to the universe by sending a wayward soul back?

 

 

Tell how you would react if it was already known and unstoppable that your own body was going to die 1 minute after whatever situation you were thinking of choosing violence.

 

It's 4pm, someone threatens or offends you (or whatever delusion you think justifies you in choosing to do physical harm), you know at 4:01pm you unavoidably die of natural causes.

 

Do you let it slide? Do you frantically try to kill them in your 1 minute left?

 

Now what if it's an hour not a minute? What if it's a day not an hour? A week not a day?

 

You already know it's just some amount of days and hours until you collect your singular entitlement.

[Bud Jetsun]

Death isn't something to be feared, no matter how much of your life experience you dedicate to avoiding death, the most one can do it trade more opportunity to show compassion towards futility.

 

When one fights, they demonstrate to the world they are no better than any other being acting out of ego fear delusions.

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Karl]

Death isn't something to be feared, no matter how much of your life experience you dedicate to avoiding death, the most one can do it trade more opportunity to show compassion towards futility.

When one fights, they demonstrate to the world they are no better than any other being acting out of ego fear delusions.

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

 

No one can fear death but they can certainly fear dying. It is life they fear more than the peaceful finality of non existence.

[doc benway]

Zhuangzi speaks to how a Daoist deals with enemies in The Empty Boat.

[topaz]

Being aware of emotions from an unemotional place -- just the right perspective, in my opinion, to allow one to deal in a Taoist way with any enemies, should they unexpectedly make an appearance.

 

doesn't work

[topaz]

Zhuangzi speaks to how a Daoist deals with enemies in The Empty Boat.

"If you can empty your own boat 

Crossing the river of the world, 

No one will oppose you, 

No one will seek to harm you.

....

Since he judges no one 

No one judges him. 

Such is the perfect man: 

His boat is empty.” 

 

http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/945216-the-way-of-chuang-tzu-shambhala-library

Edited October 8, 2015 by topaz

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

It depends on which Daoist you asked.

 

Typically, religious sects in Daoism advocate non contention as a way to deal with problems, but this can be really difficult if you have people bothering you every day.

There were many people in the 20th century who practiced both Daoist methods and the martial arts (my teacher's teacher Fu shoubo for instance) and who didn't take bull from anyone.

I think if you were to go to the DDJ for answers, you would find that Laozi doesn't specifically decry the use of soldiers, but instead says that one shouldn't use soldiers more than needed.   I think the best way to deal with most people who annoy you is to either convert them with your kindness, or just treat them like they are mosquitos trying to get a little drink of your blood, no big deal.

For really dirty, nasty, terrible people, you either have to cut them right out or if the going gets tough, deal with them as quickly and effectively as possible, by whatever means are the most suitable.

Most mean people have had difficult lives and don't know how to show positive emotions to others.  Please keep this in mind before you lash out at anyone for treating you poorly  :)

[ilumairen]

Hi Topaz,

 

I work an overlapping shift with a man who is oddly interested in me - which maybe a bit of an understatement. He speaks many words and takes great pains to paint me as an enemy that needs fighting. This has been going on for over four years now.

He is a married man who wooed my friend with pretty words and lies. I left things to take their course. Then one day he asked what I thought about these things. I did ask him if he really wanted to know, he replied to the affirmative, and I responded that I didn't like the way he was treating his wife, didn't want my friend to get hurt, and would prefer to stay as uninvolved as possible.

Game on. I had known speaking these words was a bad idea. I spoke them anyway, so I do take my share of the responsibility for the weirdness that has ensued.

* this is my big stick upside the head reminding me that if my instincts say keep your mouth shut, I need to do just that.

 

(As this could get quite long I'm going to break it up into smaller posts.)

[ilumairen]

So, the best course of action would have been keeping my mouth shut. I did not.

Then my friend stopped talking to me. I was confused, and let it be for a moment. One day I asked why we weren't talking, and she said because she didn't want to. All I could do was say ok, and wait. Eventually the relationship between the two ended, and she began talking to me again. I learned that he told her he heard me saying things that were hurtful to her. It didn't make sense to her, and she withdrew from me.

It was the simple fact that I was me, and the things he claimed I said were too out of character that brought her and I back to a friendship that is stronger for the experience.

I didn't do anything because there was nothing to do.

[ilumairen]

Then came the time of him trying to destroy her emotionally. She knew secrets about him that could be shared. He went into preemptive mode, and I tried to be proactive. People repeated horrible stories he told about her, and I tried to temper these stories with facts and reasonable observations. I was working against his designs to try to protect my friend.

I have been the primary focus ever since, and boy is this man capable of holding focus.

[ilumairen]

So here we are four years later. Every Spring, without fail, he tells the temporary employees strange stories about me. Some see that his stories don't seem to fit with my character and personality, and they return my smiles. Some just leave me alone.

At first there were alot of coworkers willing to believe his stories, and management would question me about things he claimed I did.

Hardly anyone would talk to my friend. There was no changing this. So we ate strawberries (both figuratively and literally).

Things have slowly shifted on their own, in spite of his best efforts.

Then came the time that I was off work for surgery. There was a lot of nastiness directed at other people, and alot of chaos. I couldn't believe how relieved people were when I returned. Some realized that it was the lack of having me to focus on. Others just saw that things were better when I was there.

To be clear, although he sees me as an enemy, I do not see him that way. He just is who he is.

[ilumairen]

The newest ongoing complaint is about me hugging people when we are on overtime, and with this he has finally made himself known to anyone who is able/willing to see.

But to the point...

The strawberry story, and a certain understanding of being a strawdog should be able to help you.

Wu Wei where you can, but take action when needed.

(At one point this man slipped and actually threatened my SO at work. Action was taken. Management was made aware. The police were notified. And a security system was installed. I made sure that people who would let him know of the second two got the information. I'd rather avoid unpleasantness if possible.)

People will act the way people act; you can't change that. All you can do is adjust your understanding where it is causing you turmoil.

If you want more words, I am here.

And while this has largely been addressed to the OP, I am open to any arguments or comments others may have on what I have shared.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

The opponent is trying to steal energy by effecting in any way possible.  if we give the opponent no energy in return removing all resistance the opponent will not be satisfied and lose interest.

 

On a physical level the opponent strikes only to find that there is nothing there. if we need to return the gift the opposite side of the body can strike without mercy.

 

lead your opponent to emptiness.

[ilumairen]

 

The opponent is trying to steal energy by effecting in any way possible. if we give the opponent no energy in return removing all resistance the opponent will not be satisfied and lose interest.

Sometimes people seem to like tilting at windmills.

[ilumairen]

 

Yeah, ain't that strange about life? The book theory doesn't work too well in real life. The book has predictability; the human animal does not.

Yep.