Practical ways to let go of attachment?

[Karl]

Nah. We have separate and individual identity, it's only our characters change as we gain more experience and age. We aren't part of a great cosmic whole except on the level of the material from which we are composed.

[Jetsun]

Nah. We have separate and individual identity, it's only our characters change as we gain more experience and age. We aren't part of a great cosmic whole except on the level of the material from which we are composed.

What is the material of awareness?

[WilliamChan]

If you are looking for dealing with a specific emotion / memory / personality, instead of looking for a profound spiritual transformation, try Emotional Freedom Techniques.  http://www.emofree.com/.

 

It combines Chinese Acupressure and Exposure Therapy to release emotion, and it is the most useful technique for a specific emotion I have ever learnt and used for myself and my clients.

Edited September 13, 2015 by WilliamChan

[Karl]

What is the material of awareness?

 

 

 

Awareness is bound up in the material of individual identity.

[doc benway]

Nah. We have separate and individual identity, it's only our characters change as we gain more experience and age. We aren't part of a great cosmic whole except on the level of the material from which we are composed.

 

When I refer to identities, I am not referring to the "separate and individual identity" that some might refer to as "me," the illusion that there is a distinct "me" that is defined and unique and separate from everything around me.

 

I am referring to the conglomerate of emotional and psychological responses which is defined by a particular relational context. We each have many identities. For example, a given woman is different things to different people - mother, daughter, boss, employee, lover, wife, hostage - it is all a matter of context and relationship. If my wife makes me angry, it is the identity of husband in me that creates that anger based on our specific history and set of expectations. That very same behavior would likely have a completely different effect on someone other than her husband, her sister for example. When my boss makes a comment that upsets me, it is the identity of employee that is disturbed and reactive, not the husband. And that reaction is based on how I feel as an employee, how I have been shown to be by my parents, society, etc...

 

So that which generates the emotional response is a unique and specific identity that we have created in relationship. That identity is made of thought, memory, expectation, and generations of conditioning. We are each composed of multiple identities, each of which surfaces and guides our actions and feelings in response to particular situations.

 

To take it a step further there are collective identities as well that transcend individual and personal boundaries - think of team mentality, nationalism, war, gender roles, football... 

 

So when we start to dissect apart our own "self" through careful observation, we find many such identities and, as manitou pointed out, when we try to grasp onto these identities, what is there to hang onto? Groups of thoughts, memories, and emotional responses? Where do they come from and where do they go?

 

The very idea that "I" am a "separate and individual identity" is at the root of this whole attachment problem. Once the specific relational identities are recognized and lose their power, we can have a better idea of the illusion of the "separate and individual identity," the me - the big illusion.

[Jetsun]

Awareness is bound up in the material of individual identity.

That is an assumption, in reality nobody can say what awareness is made of or where it comes from. Neuroscientists can't find what part of the brain or body produces awareness and experientally you can't find the origin of awareness or identity. I'm not saying it is or it isn't bound to the body but it is about being true to what we really know.

[Karl]

@steve

 

You are an active identified and consciously aware being, trying to convince yourself that is not that.

 

For what purpose do you wish yourself away ?

 

One must first have identity to be in a position to refute the idea of identity.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Karl

[Karl]

That is an assumption, in reality nobody can say what awareness is made of or where it comes from. Neuroscientists can't find what part of the brain or body produces awareness and experientally you can't find the origin of awareness or identity. I'm not saying it is or it isn't bound to the body but it is about being true to what we really know.

 

It's not necessary to find awareness or identity, it is what it is and is an irreducible axiom. It is bound up with the material of the body.

It's not possible to discover the receiving part of a transistor radio either, but it remains a function of all its components and materials that it can receive a signal and produce a sound. If we throw the components arbitrarily on a desktop the radio will not function, it has to be assembled in a specific order.

[vtrader125]

woooshh, thanks but everything I read in the last page has gone over my head, to much for my brain.

 

Let me give you guys a more context based example.

My job, deadend job, it bores me, it feels like I have failed in life. It has grown in to a fear in applying for jobs as I think I will end up getting another job of the same type and nothing better.

 

What attachments should I let go off? BTW its diffcult to maintain that detachment when you spend 9 hours, most of the day in that environment that is more disempowering.

Gratitude only works for a short time, after 9 hours I just don't give a fudge.

[manitou]

Watch Fox news . 

 

 

I think this is great advice, lol.  Sometimes I'll turn it on just to see if I've grown any.

 

Not yet.  

[manitou]

Nah. We have separate and individual identity, it's only our characters change as we gain more experience and age. We aren't part of a great cosmic whole except on the level of the material from which we are composed.

 

 

I wonder.  I think rather that babies are all born with one collective soul, and it's the individual filters of life experience that differentiate us and create the illusion of separateness.  If we can get our minds around what you alluded to, the material from which we are composed, all else is thought form.  

 

vTrader - sorry for the metaphysics.  But this really is pertinent to your question, as you are The Creator.  You create your own reality.  You are enclosed only be the walls of your mind.  If your career is not a good one, can you work toward another career as you maintain this job temporarily?  You speak of boredom, but Eckhart Tolle would only tell you that boredom is a result of not being here and now, right here in this moment.  There really is a whole metaphysical path to walk down concerning changing our realities; and most likely it starts with an inner change somewhere.

 

Sometimes we get stuck in a particular job because we're afraid to leave it, or we're afraid to tell our spouses that we want a change.  If this is the case, then the real problem is Fear, not with the job.  When the fear is conquered, the problem will be conquered.  When trust in yourself and your creative abilities to find employment elsewhere become stronger than your fear of leaving, then you will most likely take action.

 

I hate being on the horns of an enema.  But sometimes you just have to shut your eyes and jump.

Edited September 13, 2015 by manitou

[Karl]

I wonder.  I think rather that babies are all born with one collective soul, and it's the individual filters of life experience that differentiate us and create the illusion of separateness.  If we can get our minds around what you alluded to, the material from which we are composed, all else is thought form.  

 

 

We are have seperate identity in material and thought form as individual and distinct entities. Each person is unique in their assemblage and thoughts.

 

 

[Karl]

woooshh, thanks but everything I read in the last page has gone over my head, to much for my brain.

 

Let me give you guys a more context based example.

My job, deadend job, it bores me, it feels like I have failed in life. It has grown in to a fear in applying for jobs as I think I will end up getting another job of the same type and nothing better.

 

What attachments should I let go off? BTW its diffcult to maintain that detachment when you spend 9 hours, most of the day in that environment that is more disempowering.

Gratitude only works for a short time, after 9 hours I just don't give a fudge.

 

Give yourself a kick up the backside. This isn't a spiritual thing, it's a practical choice that you can do something about. Time to get tough and take some risks.

[Jetsun]

It's not necessary to find awareness or identity, it is what it is and is an irreducible axiom. It is bound up with the material of the body. It's not possible to discover the receiving part of a transistor radio either, but it remains a function of all its components and materials that it can receive a signal and produce a sound. If we throw the components arbitrarily on a desktop the radio will not function, it has to be assembled in a specific order.

 

Quite a few spiritual traditions suggest a closer examination of awareness than you are doing here, especially with regards to identity. 

 

In reality everything always changes and everything arises out of multiple causes and conditions, so where is the fixed identity to be found? the only constant in all situations, the only thing which is always present and reliable is awareness, so if any identity is ever going to be found it is only found in what is constant.

[liminal_luke]

Here´s something you might try. It comes out of a book called Wired for Joy by Laurel Mellin. When you´re feeling really bad simply repeat these three phrases over and over.

 

I will not judge myself or others.

Things may be bad, but I won´t do anything to make it worse.

This too shall pass.

 

I´m paraphrasing the phrases a little, but if you want to know more you can buy the book. The idea is that when we are really stressed out we tend to be judgmental -- both of ourselves and others -- which doesn´t help. We tend to do things to make the situation worse like go into addictions or make rash decision. We don´t believe the situation will ever change. These phrases counteract these tendencies and can get us to a better place.

 

It sounds corny, I know, but in my experience it works.

 

Liminal

Edited September 13, 2015 by liminal_luke

[doc benway]

@steve

 

You are an active identified and consciously aware being, trying to convince yourself that is not that.

Until you see that the being you thought you were is empty...

 

 

For what purpose do you wish yourself away ?

To put an end to ignorance

 

 

One must first have identity to be in a position to refute the idea of identity.

Agreed

[Karl]

Quite a few spiritual traditions suggest a closer examination of awareness than you are doing here, especially with regards to identity. 

 

In reality everything always changes and everything arises out of multiple causes and conditions, so where is the fixed identity to be found? the only constant in all situations, the only thing which is always present and reliable is awareness, so if any identity is ever going to be found it is only found in what is constant.

 

You misunderstand the word 'identity'. It simply means separate thing that maybe identified as such. It does not mean that material or mental states are not changing. A corpse has separate identity from a chair, yet a corpse is not aware-it is not self identified, but it remains an item with individual identity never the less regardless of any conscious entity being aware of it.

 

What you are saying is nothing has separate identity and all arises from conscious awareness, but if that was so there would only be consciousness and that cannot be because consciousness needs to be conscious of something. Therefore something must exist prior to consciousness. It shows your argument to be flawed. If you produced everything from consciousness how did you know what the things were that you were creating. You had knowledge of reality by exploring the world first and not the reverse. Where could you ever have dreamed up sky, bodies, self, animals, trees, shoes if there was no reality to explore ? Existence exists and it exists even when you are not conscious of it.

 

 

[Karl]

Until you see that the being you thought you were is empty...

 

 

 

To put an end to ignorance

 

 

 

Agreed

 

Being the 'thought' is quite obviously not who you are. Why would you use that as an argument. Thoughts tumble about inside the mind like a washing machine which we are aware of that's all. The primary thought 'I' is all that is necessary, the rest is mind built memories. There is no conflict with your ideology. However if you try and dispel the 'I' thought you are wishing yourself dead.

 

You can put an end to ignorance by constantly seeking to know reality. It is an ongoing exploration in which you will always be ignorant of something just as you will always be hungry. There is no omniscient primal knowing beyond 'I am that I am'. I am alive, consciously aware and seeking to know what is. To have the thought you are not what you are is to conflict with reality and increase ignorance by trying to erase the only tool you have to dispel it.

 

You cannot slake a thirst by sewing up your mouth to prevent drinking.

[Jetsun]

You misunderstand the word 'identity'. It simply means separate thing that maybe identified as such. It does not mean that material or mental states are not changing. A corpse has separate identity from a chair, yet a corpse is not aware-it is not self identified, but it remains an item with individual identity never the less regardless of any conscious entity being aware of it. What you are saying is nothing has separate identity and all arises from conscious awareness, but if that was so there would only be consciousness and that cannot be because consciousness needs to be conscious of something. Therefore something must exist prior to consciousness. It shows your argument to be flawed. If you produced everything from consciousness how did you know what the things were that you were creating. You had knowledge of reality by exploring the world first and not the reverse. Where could you ever have dreamed up sky, bodies, self, animals, trees, shoes if there was no reality to explore ? Existence exists and it exists even when you are not conscious of it.

In ultimate terms nothing does have separate identity, things are designated as separate by the mind for practical and functional reasons but ultimately those separations aren't real.

 

You can explain this to the intellect in Buddhist terms using phrases such as emptiness is form and form is emptiness, but in this case unless it is seen with direct insight I doubt it will have much impact.

[Karl]

In ultimate terms nothing does have separate identity, things are designated as separate by the mind for practical and functional reasons but ultimately those separations aren't real.

You can explain this to the intellect in Buddhist terms using phrases such as emptiness is form and form is emptiness, but in this case unless it is seen with direct insight I doubt it will have much impact.

 

You are your mind, it is the same thing and yet you talk about separation of objects being unreal. It is here that you have created separation and it should be seen clearly that you have created an entirely separate mind from self. That's what Buddah realised was the cause of suffering. You have created a false dichotomy and immediately there is conflict and suffering.

[Jetsun]

You are your mind, it is the same thing and yet you talk about separation of objects being unreal. It is here that you have created separation and it should be seen clearly that you have created an entirely separate mind from self. That's what Buddah realised was the cause of suffering. You have created a false dichotomy and immediately there is conflict and suffering.

I am not only my mind. Being trapped in the mind and it's concepts is what Buddha meant by being trapped in Samsara. What you haven't realised that there is such a thing as being aware of awareness, or objectless awareness, where all dualities collapse. It is there where you find peace and freedom from identity with the mind. Of course the mind will say that's impossible because the mind can't grasp it, but it can be discovered experientally. Some traditions call this resting as primordial awareness.

[Perceiver]

I agree with Karl. Consciousness is definitely individual: the door slams on Sarahs hand and hurts her. I can feel pain, but i cant feel Sarahs pain in that moment.

 

Consciousness is individual. This we know for sure. It may also be cosmic/universal. But this we dont know for sure - yet.

[Karl]

I agree with Karl. Consciousness is definitely individual: the door slams on Sarahs hand and hurts her. I can feel pain, but i cant feel Sarahs pain in that moment.

Consciousness is individual. This we know for sure. It may also be cosmic/universal. But this we dont know for sure - yet.

 

Yes, what we don't know now, we don't know yet, or can't know ever.

[Karl]

I am not only my mind. Being trapped in the mind and it's concepts is what Buddha meant by being trapped in Samsara. What you haven't realised that there is such a thing as being aware of awareness, or objectless awareness, where all dualities collapse. It is there where you find peace and freedom from identity with the mind. Of course the mind will say that's impossible because the mind can't grasp it, but it can be discovered experientally. Some traditions call this resting as primordial awareness.

 

Yes, 'being trapped in the mind'. You said it and created the separation. You are not trapped in the mind, you are your mind and there is no trap. You are looking for a problem that does not and has never existed. You created the idea of 'the separate mind' which is separate from something else that you cannot define as you.

 

You cannot be aware of awareness, or conscious of consciousness. That was all dealt with in some Buddhist writing of 'the eye seeing its own sight'. That's cognitive dissonance.

 

You cannot 'rest' in primordial awareness because it is you that is aware and you must be aware of something. The idea that some other awareness, rests in awareness should be seen for what it is-separation. There is no separation between you and you. :-)

[Jetsun]

I agree with Karl. Consciousness is definitely individual: the door slams on Sarahs hand and hurts her. I can feel pain, but i cant feel Sarahs pain in that moment.

 

Consciousness is individual. This we know for sure. It may also be cosmic/universal. But this we dont know for sure - yet.

There is a difference between consciousness and awareness.

 

Also just because you don't know something for sure it doesn't means others haven't made such a discovery