Geof Nanto Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) I tend to agree but it is hard to separate the influences on mankind and weapons are one. One can look at China where they don't have gun ownership and say they are generally less severe killings... but then one looks at the result of Australia's gun ban a few years now and saw that crime went up. I don't like statistics at times because, as is well known, there are many reasons for crime... and against conventional wisdom, dead men [historical crime] can tell tales. There's no gun ban in Australia, but the laws on gun ownership were considerably tightened after a mass shooting in 1996. Since that time studies have revealed no statistically significant change in gun violence. The level of gun violence in Australia is relatively low, but not as low as the UK. "The American National Rifle Association claimed in 2000 that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws. The Australian federal Attorney General accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to 'remove any reference to Australia' from its website." (from Wikipedia) Edited September 4, 2015 by Yueya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted September 4, 2015 Violence is all in perception. Does the violent person view America as a violent place? No, they do think in those terms. I used to carry a pocketknife. for defensive purposes. Then I realized one day that taking along any sort of weapon means I am expecting to have to use it. I stopped carrying that knife, and at 39 years in the, according to others here, violent USA I have never been in any fight. I think I don't see the world, or am learning to not see the world, as a violent place. The world simply is, and there unconscious humans in it heavily into their role. People literally do not know what they are doing. Even if they recognize the act, there is no awareness or consciousness. Most of the time it is a reaction. Put your energy into the reality, the world, you want to experience. A place where everyone lives harmoniously with each other, nature. and the earth herself. Why invest any energy into the illusions of a violent world, or the delusions of a peaceful one? The world is simply a reflection of our perception. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted September 4, 2015 Violence is all in perception. Does the violent person view America as a violent place? No, they do think in those terms. I used to carry a pocketknife. for defensive purposes. Then I realized one day that taking along any sort of weapon means I am expecting to have to use it. I stopped carrying that knife, and at 39 years in the, according to others here, violent USA I have never been in any fight. I think I don't see the world, or am learning to not see the world, as a violent place. The world simply is, and there unconscious humans in it heavily into their role. People literally do not know what they are doing. Even if they recognize the act, there is no awareness or consciousness. Most of the time it is a reaction. Put your energy into the reality, the world, you want to experience. A place where everyone lives harmoniously with each other, nature. and the earth herself. Why invest any energy into the illusions of a violent world, or the delusions of a peaceful one? The world is simply a reflection of our perception. That can go sideward very quickly. The world is what it is, our perception of it is the unique part. It's easy to get those two swapped around into thinking we can alter the world by thought alone-been there, done that. Depending on how far that process is followed the eventual and inevitable wake up call can be pretty difficult to cope with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 4, 2015 We experience violence when we venture into places known for their violence. If we avoid these places we will more often than not never experience any violence. But again, a good defense is always appropriate, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted September 5, 2015 Dreambliss, You are a dreamer if you think those ideas will protect your human life from violence; it's true that such may help protect the state of your mind and heart but there is also the fact that at any time anyone can come along and end your physical life without an once of hesitation or reason (and made easier without self-defense) for such is the way of sub-human and demonic influences in this world - just look around at how such is even being done to little kids! (although karma would have to be involved somehow??) so there's nothing wrong with the idea of protecting your mind and heart just don't be surprised if you get knocked off - Gandhi and Jesus weren't. (a few examples out of thousands) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) I normally resort to such a statement at some point in any discussion I get into regarding gun control in the US. Guns don't shot people; people shot people. Yes, some use a knife instead if they don't have a gun. Actually its bullets that kill people! So make guns legal and ban bullets! Edited September 5, 2015 by DreamBliss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Dreambliss, You are a dreamer if you think those ideas will protect your human life from violence; it's true that such may help protect the state of your mind and heart but there is also the fact that at any time anyone can come along and end your physical life without an once of hesitation or reason (and made easier without self-defense) for such is the way of sub-human and demonic influences in this world - just look around at how such is even being done to little kids! (although karma would have to be involved somehow??) so there's nothing wrong with the idea of protecting your mind and heart just don't be surprised if you get knocked off - Gandhi and Jesus weren't. (a few examples out of thousands) Would I rather die a dreamer or live a jaded realist? Dream or nightmare? Which shall I choose... Is there really a monster under my bed? Is there really someone, or some group of someones, out to get me? Is the world for me or against me? Is my happiness in my hands, or the hands of others? Is everyone a potential enemy or a potential friend? Is life really worth living, or should I just give up, right now, because the cards are stacked against me, as they are against all others? Or shall I call the dealer's bluff, lay down my cards, take my losses or winnings, and move to another table? Or stop playing games entirely? So many questions... Can anyone be said to have the answers? For the record, I have not said anything against learning self-defense. I just decided that for me, carrying around a knife was like asking for trouble. But I would be right there with you, in a Krav Maga class, should I find one and the finances to pay for it. There is nothing wrong with preparation and self-defense training! But expecting trouble that you have to be prepared for or defend yourself against will certainly bring it! Edited September 5, 2015 by DreamBliss 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted September 5, 2015 There's no gun ban in Australia, but the laws on gun ownership were considerably tightened after a mass shooting in 1996. Since that time studies have revealed no statistically significant change in gun violence. The level of gun violence in Australia is relatively low, but not as low as the UK. "The American National Rifle Association claimed in 2000 that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws. The Australian federal Attorney General accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to 'remove any reference to Australia' from its website." (from Wikipedia) I think one of the best statistics for Australia though is that there have been no further mass shootings since 1996 when gun restrictions were introduced. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted September 5, 2015 it's the only game in town, not playing is still playing but with fewer options... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
z00se Posted September 5, 2015 If i am really pissed off i might shoot someone if i have a gun. If i got a knife i might stab them, with neither i can only punch. If in punching i will probably stop before they die. That's my idea. Here in Australia ppl cant carry knives either. Ppl have got in trouble for carrying a boxcutter. Its a bit silly i think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Who is tired of all this crap? Tread softly here - this is as important a question as can be asked. This can be a turning point Awakening question/moment. Put aside for a moment the idea of "turning off the garbage" or exchanging noise channels. Don't allow the bafoon to assume the high road and with an eye of superiority look down upon this now as childish. STEP BACK - from exchanging anything - and look what you are tired of - it is the noise - the endless loops from endless bafoons. Your - You - that group of Bafoons that are the you they have been playing - the judgers - the whisperer weighing in - the noise of your mind in matched play with the noise - the "garbage" a part of you - YOU who could be relying on another state. STEP into acceptance of just Awareness - no judgement - just view - no words - just view - no labeling - just view - no inertia - just be. Drop the noise for awhile - turn off the intake of it (it will still be there if you miss it). Drop all of it for the moment. Make no resolution - do nothing. Just step away from "the new organizers of better stuff". Stop - take a long pleasant drive to nowhere in particular and listen to music without words and not too emotive - or just listen to the sounds of the road and stop any looping thoughts. Step off the noise and into simply being Aware. Don't look down upon the "garbage" - noise is noise is noise is noise - the left side is part of the right side - hot requires cold - step out of this - no need to judge it or take sides or up end it or defend it - just pause - and move to plain simple awareness. Edited September 5, 2015 by Spotless 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) These "stop" points - this is when "the kingdom of heaven" is most at hand - it is when you are able for a moment to give up all the noise in your space that reflects the noise out there - when a part of you throws up your hands or simply relaxes out of the inertia for a moment. This is incredibly opportune - in a moment you can rest in Awareness - stay with it - this is Awakening - this is what happens in Awakening. It was always sitting with you amid all the noise. It is what every sage has been trying to get across. You have always had it but participate in otherwise noise - choose to participate in simple Awareness. Edited September 5, 2015 by Spotless 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2015 Actually its bullets that kill people! So make guns legal and ban bullets! Many people know how to make their own bullets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2015 I "Liked" your post except for this last sentence. It's not true or logical. But expecting trouble that you have to be prepared for or defend yourself against will certainly bring it! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted September 5, 2015 I "Liked" your post except for this last sentence. It's not true or logical. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is the technical term. The confusion of temporal causality. 'Just because I wore this raincoat it stayed dry' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2015 Post hoc ergo propter hoc is the technical term. The confusion of temporal causality. 'Just because I wore this raincoat it stayed dry' Hehehe. I don't do Latin or Spanish. Sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted September 5, 2015 Hehehe. I don't do Latin or Spanish. Sorry. Well you do now :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) I "Liked" your post except for this last sentence. It's not true or logical. Well I guess you can test it out. It's very simple... Arm yourself with a pistol, baseball bat and knife. Now find your way to the local park where suspect people occasionally hang out. Or somewhere at the edges of your normal stomping ground that is a little run down. Enter the area with an attitude that you are going to hurt someone. That you are looking for a fight. That you are going to use the items you are carrying on someone. Knock your bat against the palm of your hand. See how long it takes until someone crosses your path in answer to your mental state. It is very simple... People who, at some level, expect to be bullied, or believe they deserve to be bullied, or think that everyone else is a bully, will get bullied. I had a friend in grade school. I was not popular, I hung out with him. Yet another boy always picked on him, even when I was standing right next to him. This boy would even get physical with him. But he completely ignored me, and I was just as scrawny and unpopular. The mere fact I hung out with this boy should have marked me. But I was left completely alone. If you look around you will see plenty of evidence that people get what they ask for, even if the request is just a state of mind, a way of thinking. Joker, the Riddler, Penguin and Two Face didn't show up until Batman. Lex Luther didn't show up until after superman crash landed. Every superhero creates their supervillain. Violence only breeds more violence. Hate only breeds more hate. Ghandi and Martin Luther King are right here, nodding their heads. Be with these thoughts. Test them. See for yourself if there is any pointing towards a truth here. Never take my work for anything... Edited September 5, 2015 by DreamBliss 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamBliss Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Post hoc ergo propter hoc is the technical term. The confusion of temporal causality. 'Just because I wore this raincoat it stayed dry' Never I claimed excellent grammatical skills to have them... From Google: Nunca he reclamado excelentes habilidades gramaticales tenerlos... Edited September 5, 2015 by DreamBliss 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted September 5, 2015 Re: ----- "The U.S. Is just a more violent place, if you aren't getting shot then you would probably be knifed instead. It's not the guns but the people." ----- People generally do and accept what they are most familiar with. That's why mainstream entertainment products (movies, books, news, games, etc) are literally saturated in violence and competition. We've probably all seen articles showing how many murders a child watches on TV (or other media) per hour or day. Hatred and vengeance are major themes. Celebrities became celebrities by portraying effective violence and domination. It's media programming. Of people. People becoming what they're shown. Children learn by imitation, and learn what to accept by watching what others accept. -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Nothing like an invitation to weigh in on Crap - it attracts more crap and flies to boot. What is correct in this requires the incorrect - and both are shit. This simple sentence is nearly impossible to hear - it is absolutely in juxtaposition to the chorus of voices "that have the answer". Mind mind mind mind - Stop the noise! Be in Awareness and foster knowing instead of mental mastication - this is the doorlees door - it is a simple as changing residence within the same home. Edited September 5, 2015 by Spotless 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2015 Well I guess you can test it out. It's very simple... Arm yourself with a pistol, baseball bat and knife. Now find your way to the local park where suspect people occasionally hang out. Dreambliss, please remember that you are not talking with a teenager when you are talking with me. I have already done what you suggest. When I open-carried no one, never, ever, tried to confront me. Twenty years in the Army and never once did anyone give me a hard time while I was carrying my weapon. Even the meanest bully in school will back off if he thinks he might get his ass kicked. My last job before retiring was driving taxi and I delivered or picked up customers in some very scary areas of town where drug dealing was daily and murder was about weekly. Never once was I confronted because I minded my own business, never gave the impression that I was interested in theirs, and it was well known that taxi drivers who went to those areas carried a firearm. Here in Florida we have the "Stand Your Ground" law and all the bad guys know about the law. If anyone needs go where there is a history of violence they should have proper defenses. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted September 5, 2015 Nice idea Spotless, but like I said it is almost impossible to fine privacy in a peaceful, moderate and bountiful forest like the Buddhas of the past once did while not having a penny to your name and still be able to live off nature.... since there is very, very little left of such hospitable places free from fences, rules and government or owner control. (nor can most become simple non-famous monks and make a living by begging like many of the historic holy people once did since begging is looked down upon and or is not going to work well enough by itself to keep one's body alive and healthy in much of the world) Granted, one can still find the quiet spaces internally through withdrawal from the world in the privacy of their own home or apartment located somewhere in a city or suburb - depending on certain factors and if they are "sly" enough to pull it off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted September 5, 2015 Living in forests, I rarely saw people. Seems like the majority of people live quite nearby to the stores and businesses they are dependent on and from which they purchase their life. Living as a beggar with nothing in the midst of "society", nobody tried to stop me. Living as a beggar with nothing in the forest, I was wealthy beyond compare. Living as a wage beggar trading life for money - this is sold to people as a way to "succeed". At what? -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2015 At what? -VonKrankenhaus Stayin' Alive, Baby, Stayin' Alive. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
