Does anyone here have a soda addiction?

[Oneironaut]

I'm addicted to soda and I'm trying to stop drinking it. Everyday I get a craving. Any suggestions?

[Karl]

I'm addicted to soda and I'm trying to stop drinking it. Everyday I get a craving. Any suggestions?

 

Nope. Sugar addiction is nasty and it fights back. With insulin kicks and gut flora. Even carbs will set it off.

 

You will have to go cold turkey and give up everything sugary or carby for at least a couple of weeks until you stabilise then it's gets easier. Don't try sugar substitute drinks as they make you hang onto the addiction. It's as bad as trying to quit smoking, maybe even harder. Remember that alcohol, fruit and many foods such as bread contain hidden sugars so give them as well for the two weeks and then see where you are.

 

It's hell. I have a sweet tooth and even if I start eating bread, pasta or rice it will kick me back into craving. I only eat wholemeal bread and rice and avoid pasta - which I would have eaten 3 to 4 times per week. Wholemeal seems to retard the process. If you can't face being completely without alcohol then drink a small glass of red wine. Snack on almonds and eat healthy fats like coconut oil, advocado, eggs. Make sure you are properly full otherwise the craving will really go punchy.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Edited September 6, 2015 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Karl]

Oh and juicing is good once over the binge. Carrot, Apple, celery.

[Ell]

I probably do but I'm not at the stage where I'm willing to admit I have a problem yet.

[Taomeow]

The easiest addiction in the world to drop.  You are in the clear with no cravings within 24 hours if you go cold turkey on all carbs.  The trick is to simultaneously include high amounts of high quality fat into your diet.  You can go with coconut oil, butter or ghee or grass-fed organic animal fat.  It will take your body one day to remember how to get energy from ketones instead of glucose.  This is what it was meant to do, it's the primary metabolic route.  To use sugar is a secondary emergency one it was trained to use instead, but if you drop that, it will revert back to normal.  It will not lead to weight gain.

 

Good luck. 

[Karl]

The easiest addiction in the world to drop.  You are in the clear with no cravings within 24 hours if you go cold turkey on all carbs.  The trick is to simultaneously include high amounts of high quality fat into your diet.  You can go with coconut oil, butter or ghee or grass-fed organic animal fat.  It will take your body one day to remember how to get energy from ketones instead of glucose.  This is what it was meant to do, it's the primary metabolic route.  To use sugar is a secondary emergency one it was trained to use instead, but if you drop that, it will revert back to normal.  It will not lead to weight gain.

 

Good luck. 

 

Easy for you maybe.

 

Eggs cooked in coconut oil.....yum. The whites go really crunchy and they have a nice creamy flavour.

I don't find grass fed animal meat easy to get hold of in our area.

[soaring crane]

I agree, and have experience with, going cold turkey on the sugar (don't even use high falutin words like carbohydrate when discussing food, it's all sugar).

 

However, the body does need sugar and we'd die a quick death if we really bottomed out, which we can't. There's a little bit in the core of the cells in the proteins we eat. And once you're over your addiction (physically, maybe 24 hours like TM says, but mentally, I dunno, I think it's not going to be so simple) you can eat fruit and veg etc.

 

Btw, that soda is also killing your skeletal system, you know that, right?

 

And the point about not using ersatz sugars is an important one. It's the sensation sweet on the tongue that has to be overcome.

[Taomeow]

Easy for you maybe. Eggs cooked in coconut oil.....yum. The whites go really crunchy and they have a nice creamy flavour. I don't find grass fed animal meat easy to get hold of in our area.

 

I didn't mean easy in terms of procuring and planning real meals -- this part takes a lot of ingenuity.  I meant it's easy on the body if you do it this way, and cravings do disappear if you do it this way.  I lived like that for 9 months, and spoke with many others who chose this method, it's easy on the body, hard on the mind which has to be used in the supermarket the way you would use it in the primeval forest -- 99% of all you see around you is NOT FOOD.    

 

I befriended the butchers at the local HFS toward getting fat trimmings for my cooking, and they would save some for me.  I made bone broths out of marrow bones and kept a supply in the freezer, I had a jar of ghee and a jar of coconut oil on hand at all times, and something only Eastern Europeans eat -- raw pork back lard.  And still it was a challenge to keep myself fed when you have committed to avoiding filler material, carbs, when the whole civilization runs on that.  The cravings return as soon as you break this regimen, but if you don't they don't, it's that simple.  I never drank any soda to begin with, and when you go cold turkey on carbs, after a while a piece of chocolate candy tastes like poison, jarring all your senses with excessive sugar -- I had to spit it out when I tried.

[Karl]

I agree, and have experience with, going cold turkey on the sugar (don't even use high falutin words like carbohydrate when discussing food, it's all sugar).

 

However, the body does need sugar and we'd die a quick death if we really bottomed out, which we can't. There's a little bit in the core of the cells in the proteins we eat. And once you're over your addiction (physically, maybe 24 hours like TM says, but mentally, I dunno, I think it's not going to be so simple) you can eat fruit and veg etc.

 

Btw, that soda is also killing your skeletal system, you know that, right?

 

And the point about not using ersatz sugars is an important one. It's the sensation sweet on the tongue that has to be overcome.

 

And the teeth.... It really does destroy teeth very quickly. What's more the teeth are far more important to overall health than they are imagined to be.

[Karl]

I didn't mean easy in terms of procuring and planning real meals -- this part takes a lot of ingenuity.  I meant it's easy on the body if you do it this way, and cravings do disappear if you do it this way.  I lived like that for 9 months, and spoke with many others who chose this method, it's easy on the body, hard on the mind which has to be used in the supermarket the way you would use it in the primeval forest -- 99% of all you see around you is NOT FOOD.    

 

I befriended the butchers at the local HFS toward getting fat trimmings for my cooking, and they would save some for me.  I made bone broths out of marrow bones and kept a supply in the freezer, I had a jar of ghee and a jar of coconut oil on hand at all times, and something only Eastern Europeans eat -- raw pork back lard.  And still it was a challenge to keep myself fed when you have committed to avoiding filler material, carbs, when the whole civilization runs on that.  The cravings return as soon as you break this regimen, but if you don't they don't, it's that simple.  I never drank any soda to begin with, and when you go cold turkey on carbs, after a while a piece of chocolate candy tastes like poison, jarring all your senses with excessive sugar -- I had to spit it out when I tried.

 

Pork fat is lovely stuff. This is what we ate as kids. Bread and dripping. They serve lard during meals in the Black Forest area of Germany and of course Sauerkraut which is very good for you-but I hate it. Fermented vegetables I can't do in quantity.

[Taomeow]

I agree, and have experience with, going cold turkey on the sugar (don't even use high falutin words like carbohydrate when discussing food, it's all sugar).

 

However, the body does need sugar and we'd die a quick death if we really bottomed out, which we can't. There's a little bit in the core of the cells in the proteins we eat. And once you're over your addiction (physically, maybe 24 hours like TM says, but mentally, I dunno, I think it's not going to be so simple) you can eat fruit and veg etc.

 

Btw, that soda is also killing your skeletal system, you know that, right?

 

And the point about not using ersatz sugars is an important one. It's the sensation sweet on the tongue that has to be overcome.

 

Ah yes, we do need "some" sugar but not refined sugar and not incessant starchy meals.  In TCM, sugar is used as a drug it is -- e.g. for lung problems and some respiratory ailments, the dose is one teaspoon, usually.  A can of soda contains a greater volume of sugar than the volume of liquid, it dissolves this well.  I don't remember the exact count, but it's, like, closer to a hundred teaspoons.

 

The "some" sugar we need is present even in a tomato, a carrot, a bunch of asparagus.  In most commercially available fruit it is already excessive because they were selectively bred for high sugar content.  (I know what real fruit tastes like and most commercial varieties taste like "too much sugar and not much else" to me.)   So no one is going to be deprived going with no processed/refined sugar if they eat some nonstarchy vegetables.  (The starchy ones are a grey zone -- strict paleo says no to those, but I found that I lose too much weight I don't need to lose if I keep it strict.  That, on supermegahigh fat intake.  Mainstream nutritional advice is beyond a joke.)   

[Taomeow]

Pork fat is lovely stuff. This is what we ate as kids. Bread and dripping. They serve lard during meals in the Black Forest area of Germany and of course Sauerkraut which is very good for you-but I hate it. Fermented vegetables I can't do in quantity.

 Have you tried homemade sauerkraut?..  It's day and night compared to what you can get from a jar.  My grandmother used to make it, and I can't figure out how, or the local cabbage is not the same, I tried and failed to replicate what she obtained, even though I watched her do it many times in my childhood and know the drill.  But the excellent variety is still available at a Russian store where I buy it whenever I have a chance.  I also go with kimchi from an Asian market for fermented vegetables these days.  There's one variety without chemicals available, imported from Korea, and "alive," not pasteurized.

[dust]

The trick is to simultaneously include high amounts of high quality fat into your diet.  You can go with coconut oil, butter or ghee or grass-fed organic animal fat.  It will take your body one day to remember how to get energy from ketones instead of glucose.  This is what it was meant to do, it's the primary metabolic route.  To use sugar is a secondary emergency one it was trained to use instead, but if you drop that, it will revert back to normal.  It will not lead to weight gain.

 

Long term, our primary energy supply is our adipose tissue, secondary our glycogen stores. But short term, our primary energy comes from sugars, and a high-carbohydrate diet is healthier than a high-protein or high-fat one. Look at human life expectancy worldwide and this becomes apparent. Meat-eaters don't fare as well as fruit-and-veg eaters.

 

Of course, it shouldn't be 'either/or' -- we are primarily adaptable animals, able to consume whatever we find in order to survive. We should consume a variety.

[Taomeow]

Dusty,

 

I have no use for junk science in mass circulation.  Try the real thing.  Start with all the scientific references appended here, e.g. -- as I did before arriving at my conclusions:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Body-Mind-Beyond-Health/dp/1594774137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441395589&sr=8-1&keywords=primal+body-primal+mind

[Karl]

 Have you tried homemade sauerkraut?..  It's day and night compared to what you can get from a jar.  My grandmother used to make it, and I can't figure out how, or the local cabbage is not the same, I tried and failed to replicate what she obtained, even though I watched her do it many times in my childhood and know the drill.  But the excellent variety is still available at a Russian store where I buy it whenever I have a chance.  I also go with kimchi from an Asian market for fermented vegetables these days.  There's one variety without chemicals available, imported from Korea, and "alive," not pasteurized.

 

Just whatever they served at the hotels which was probably commercial.

[dust]

Dusty,

 

I have no use for junk science in mass circulation.  Try the real thing.

 

Not sure what 'junk science' you're referring to...but let me start again.

 

Let's say we agree that a 'primal' diet of some sort is beneficial. I then assume that we agree that cutting out a majority of the foods that are available on supermarket shelves is consequently beneficial. So many of these 'foods' (and drinks) are high in severely processed and lab-produced materials, and it is my belief that these are partially responsible for modern levels of obesity (& diabetes), heart problems, cancers, etc.

 

I think this is actually something that most modern advocates of 'alternative' diets agree upon, though they don't like to say so. For all of their posturing and contest, advocates of Paleo, Raw till 4 vegan, Keto, Fruitarian, etc, are basically united in discarding modern processed garbage foods.

 

So we take all this garbage out of the picture. We can probably agree, after that, to go back even further: agriculture itself has been harmful, and many animals and plants that now exist have been engineered far beyond their 'natural' state.

 

But beyond that, we don't know. We can only guess as to what it is that we 'should' be living on. Anyone who claims to know the precise dietary habits of a particular historical people, and their average lifespan, is full of shit. Most dietary materials are 'invisible' to us after a few thousand years, and there's literally no way of knowing exactly what a paleolithic diet consisted of, nor, really, any way of knowing for sure that it was the best diet for us.

 

In my opinion, large-scale epidemiological evidence and personal experience are the 2 best ways of judging what is best.

 

I tried a period of low-carb, high-protein eating; I ate primarily meat and veg and cut out processed foods almost entirely, and though I felt good (and my headaches disappeared), it's as nothing to my current diet: high-carb, high-fat, medium-protein, but a minimal amount of meat. I have more energy now than at any point in the past, and am much fitter.

Edited September 5, 2015 by dustybeijing

[vonkrankenhaus]

Ketogenic diets that feature animal meat and fats are not healthy, although they will certainly cause weight loss in modern people.

 

That's not "paleo" so much as an "ice age diet".

 

Ketosis is not overall a normal state of metabolism.

Rather, it is a state induced by starvation and hypoglycemia.

 

Weight loss people have correctly associated that this will burn fat and even muscle - just like a starving person.

 

Starving can curb acquired diabetes, but eventually the process of re-digesting themselves becomes a toxic state.

 

Did you ever hear the story of those explorers that ate starving sled dogs?

 

They died.

 

If you are a cannibal, do avoid eating "paleo" dieters.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[liminal_luke]

Ketogenic diets that feature animal meat and fats are not healthy, although they will certainly cause weight loss in modern people.

 

Blanket pronouncements about the benfits/risks of particular diets tend to leave out the very important "for whom" part of the equation. Ketogenic diets are very harmful for some, ideal for others.

 

I myself tend to do best on a low-carb paleoesque diet, but am willing to concede that there are people for whom low fat is the better choice. Some people even do well on a vegetarian diet (shudder), though it pains me a little to say so.

 

Liminal

Edited September 5, 2015 by liminal_luke

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Blanket pronouncements about the benfitis/risks of particular diets tend to leave out the very important "for whom" part of the equation. Ketogenic diets are very harmful for some, ideal for others."

-----

 

Could you tell us who would do best on a starvation diet where they were eating their own fat and muscles for decades?

 

Can you post an example of someone living in a state of muscle/fat ketosis who has been doing that for more than a few years?

 

How about the "Atkins Diet" - know anyone who has done that for any significant number of years?

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

PS: I drank a Pepsi in 1968. Never again.

[cheya]

Oneironaut,

Curious what appeals to you in the soda.

I have a minor addiction to Cokes... preferably those 8 oz glass bottles on ice. :-)

 

It's partly caffeine and sugar, but I honestly think it's the phosphoric acid that's the kicker for me.

 

Years ago I went to a metabolic balance doc, and he gave me phosphoric acid drops to take daily!

I never keep Coke in the house, only have it at work, and usually only once or twice a week... so it is an addiction, but under some control. If there's only pepsi available, I'll drink it if there are lemon slices available, otherwise forget it..

 

So if the caffeine/sugar seems to be driving the addiction, maybe address your adrenals, stress, your sleep, and sugar/carbs in the rest of your diet, as recommended above, in order to support getting off it. Tonic herbs might help....

 

If it's the acid, or the carbonation, it may actually be a metabolic issue. When I needed that phosphoric acid, I was unconsciously  breathing REALLY slow, apparently conserving carbon dioxide to maintain effective pH balance.

[liminal_luke]

VonKrankenhaus,

 

You ask if people are healthy on a ketogenic diet or an Atkins type diet for years. Some people probably are, but I don´t think this is a useful question. Our bodies change and our diets need to change in turn if we are to maintain optimum health. It´s a little like Chinese herbs. The herb that´s perfect for me today probably isn´t something that I would want to take for life.

 

The ketogenic diet is a tool that´s appropriate for certain people at certain times. It can be useful in weight loss as you suggested. Also for epilepsy, other neurological conditions. It can be useful for some people with diabetes, for some people with cancer. I´m not suggesting everybody with any of these problems go on a ketogenic diet for life. I´m suggesting it´s a great tool for some people in some situations for some period of time.

 

Liminal

Edited September 5, 2015 by liminal_luke

[SonOfTheGods]

Food intake is science.

 

Unique for you- so YOU must design it, yourself.

 

Look at all that thick muscle a Horse has- extremely powerful and agile- now examine the Horse's diet.

 

Look at all that thick muscle a Gorilla has- extremely powerful and agile- now examine the Gorilla's diet.

 

Look at all that thick muscle a Lion has- extremely powerful and agile- now examine the Lion's diet.

 

To each, their own = Know Thyself

[Taomeow]

I don't think there's any other area of human knowledge today where ignorance bordering on clinical idiocy is more rampant than in nutrition.  I suspect it's the doing of the food corporations which routinely present as "science" whatever boosts their profits.    

 

I mean, I've seen ignorance pertaining to various areas of life on four continents and nine seas.  But nutritional beliefs people manage to contract in the West in general, and in the US more than anywhere else, defy credulity. 

 

I wrote in this thread to help someone with a soda addiction, the way I've helped many people over the years, with much more serious problems than this and with zero failure rate.  To argue with vegetarians and "corporate science" brainwashees was not the goal of my participation.  Let them eat cake. 

[Andrei]