Man Love

[Cameron]

Ok,

 

For the sake of not alienating anyone let's start a thread on male sexual cultivation.

 

Or what Smile likes to call "What to do in Greenwich Village NYC at night".

 

Sean raised an interesting point we don't want to alienate anyone.

 

And let's face it..we have a pretty large Tao Bums Australia crowd now and isn't Australia like central station for man love?

 

So..my feeling is..like all things in life..this is an individual thing. You sort of see how you are hooked up or whatever.

 

I mean..wasn't there a Taoist Immortal into man love?

 

I remember some Taoist back in the day saying man love is unbalanced..something about Yang and Yang. Like even if you "play roles" the overall energy is still yang and thus unbalanced.

 

I mean..Male and Female..Yin and Yang...you know?

 

So for the sake of not alienating anyone here or people that come on Tao Bums in the future let's discuss.

[林愛偉]

Ok,

 

For the sake of not alienating anyone let's start a thread on male sexual cultivation.

 

Or what Smile likes to call "What to do in Greenwich Village NYC at night".

 

Sean raised an interesting point we don't want to alienate anyone.

 

And let's face it..we have a pretty large Tao Bums Australia crowd now and isn't Australia like central station for man love?

 

So..my feeling is..like all things in life..this is an individual thing. You sort of see how you are hooked up or whatever.

 

I mean..wasn't there a Taoist Immortal into man love?

 

I remember some Taoist back in the day saying man love is unbalanced..something about Yang and Yang. Like even if you "play roles" the overall energy is still yang and thus unbalanced.

 

I mean..Male and Female..Yin and Yang...you know?

 

So for the sake of not alienating anyone here or people that come on Tao Bums in the future let's discuss.

 

 

There was never a homosexual Daoist Immortal, and an Immortal would not be an Immortal if they were...hahaha

 

 

Mixing those energies does damage to one's cultivation, and results in ill karmic afflictions as well.

 

As in the words of Ven. Master Xuan Hua, " You know why we have Siamese Twins...?"

 

hahaha

 

Peace and Blessings.

Lin

Edited October 26, 2007 by 林愛偉

[Cameron]

I never thought there was an Immortal man lover but I thought I remember hearing Michael Winn or someone saying there was.

 

In any case!

[Yoda]

While Taoists are much more interested in woman to woman relationships, that might not have anything to do with particular spiritual insights.

 

Big Max strongly hints on p. 81 that the gender to gender specifics doesn't matter.

 

While there will always be differences of opinion, I hope that everyone feels welcome on taobums regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

 

I like to think that we are such a freak show as it is, that the above distinctions don't even scan.

[Cameron]

Exactly.

 

I think part of the "dark area" here is..well..let's face it we have never had a truly gay cultivator on here.

 

I mean..I am sure there must be atleast a couple of them out there..but as far as I can tell there hasn't been anyone who has really gone anywhere with Taoist practices that is gay.

 

I will tell you a story,

 

The first time I met Michael Winn there was a gay man at the workshop. This was was awhile ago..even beofe I met Smile at the next workshop like a year later.

 

I was hanging out with this nice black girl and caught Michael talking to this guy so just went up to them.

 

They were in the middle of a conversation about how this gay man had been brutally raped by some guys and how his life had basically fallen apart after his "soul mate"(a man) died.

 

I have to say..if there was ever a moment I was really impressed with Michael Winn it was there. Michael very compassionaly and patiently listened to every workd this guy said. I listened also but didn't have anywhere near the patience Winn had to deal with that.

 

It's hard but my feeling dealign with the few gay men I have known is the energy of thosee realtionships don't really provide the "fuel" one needs to cultivate.

 

And..well as Lin said you just won't go anywhere.

 

It's hard to tak about but it's ebtter we be up front and honest about these things.

 

And Yoda..I don't know that I agree with what you said about Max. I mean Ken Cohen says the same thing. These are compassionate beings so they are trying to help people from where they are at.

[林愛偉]

Being homosexual doesn't mean one can not cultivate. They will only get so far, and when so far gets reached, it does matter.

 

Despite what Michael Winn says, there was never a homosexual immortal... lol that's just silly.

 

Peace,

Lin

[arnquist]

I have no problem with "man love," but I think everyone needs the influence of the opposite gender in their lives in some way, we complete each other.

[Mantra68]

We have had many gay people in our seminars. Some would seem to have an advantage because they allow more of their feminine side to flow and Kunlun is all about the feminine energy.

 

It really comes down to reconciling the male/female within and finding the balance. This is why Taoist men grew their hair long: to help balance their female nature. Women monks shave their heads to balance male.

[Yoda]

We have had many gay people in our seminars. Some would seem to have an advantage because they allow more of their feminine side to flow and Kunlun is all about the feminine energy.

 

It really comes down to reconciling the male/female within and finding the balance. This is why Taoist men grew their hair long: to help balance their female nature. Women monks shave their heads to balance male.

 

 

Well said. The gay men and women I've known seem significantly ahead of the curve... they've had to free themselves of so many constraints that they know how to play that game better than the rest of us.

 

We haven't seen many/any high level gay people b/c we haven't seen many high level people period.

 

I hadn't considered that gay people might have a superior inner balance... that makes sense too.

[Pietro]

I'll be technical.. According to what we are taugh. Male to male homosexuality is not ok. Female to female is ok and is called polishing mirrors. It actually increases the yin.

 

To be VERY technical what is not ok in male to male homosexuality is butt fucking. That is what harms the energetic system.

 

And yes, we did ask to Bruce if it was ok for a women to butt fuck a man using a Dildo (that was the first question from many of the more masculine ladies, hemm). Yes, that's fine, because although she is the one with the dildo, energetically she is still the yin side.

 

We were also told that there is a group of male homosexual in china, but they keep to themselves and (as we were told), write "weird things indeed".

 

I know Bruce has only one vow, and that is that he is not allowed to teach to a male homosexual, that living near S.Francisco must be quite an effort.

 

We also asked what was exactly that happened when man have sex with other men. We were told that something in the energetic structure change (I understood something that has to do with compassion) so that IF that man become politically powerful he could cause the death of many million people. Taoists have observed this pattern recuring over the centuries, so now they don't teach to male homosexual... just in case.

 

And I think Bruce had to go through, with his teacher, the whole history of China, and how this person caused those deaths, and that person caused those other, and so on.

 

As such, if you intend to learn from Bruce and you have had homosexual experiences, he, being in the modern world, practically follows a philosophy of don't ask-don't tell. So just shut up or he would be forced to throw you out of the class or stop teaching (forever?).

 

Late Addendum:

I am off to Germany for a week of workshop with Bruce. I have been waiting for this workshop to come up for a few years now, so I am quite happy. I will not check the board regularly until the second week of November. It all depends on how easy it is to find an internet connection. So if you have any comment on the above, don't expect me to answer them.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Pietro

[affenbrot]

 

 

Despite what Michael Winn says, there was never a homosexual immortal... lol that's just silly.

 

Peace,

Lin

what about Lan Caihe? one of the eight immortals, looks quite gay to me...

[Cameron]

I think what Pietro wrote is fair and balanced.

 

But what Mantra said makes sense also.

 

Anyway..as some wise person somewhere said.

 

TO EACH HIS OWN!

[Mantra68]

In Kunlun dual cultivation (with a partner), it doesn't matter what the combination is. It could be male/male, female/female, or male/female. It is just energy that mixes beyond male and female. You don't even have to touch physically.

 

You find the energy you need to balance.

 

Spooky eh?

[liminal_luke]

Exactly.

 

I think part of the "dark area" here is..well..let's face it we have never had a truly gay cultivator on here.

 

I mean..I am sure there must be atleast a couple of them out there..but as far as I can tell there hasn't been anyone who has really gone anywhere with Taoist practices that is gay.

 

 

What, you didn't see my rainbow flag? I may not have a girlfriend honey, but believe me, there's plenty of yin energy to go around over here at liminal_luke's happy lovenest. When I had my interview with Big Max at the Kunlun seminar, he told me I had very balanced male/female energy,would go far in Kunlun, and asked if I was interested in teaching. And while I'm not about to let such comments go to my head (wouldn't be surprised if everyone who pays their $150 bucks gets a complementary compliment or two), there is something about being gay that makes taoist cultivation just a little bit easier.

 

Michael Winn once likened the alchemical process to cooking. Mix equal parts Jenny jellybeans and Charlie chile in the cosmic easy-bake oven in your belly and voila! Being a yang dude with your yin woman is cool and all, but ultimately we all have to connect with our internal yin and yang. And this is something that comes very naturally to the gay tribe.

 

Snap!

[Cameron]

It's all good

[Mantra68]

It's all good

Here is one for all of the burly types:

Shudo Samurai traditions

 

Any claims against people who are homosexual being capable of self-enlightenment are just bullshit.

 

All the "phobes" will eventually need to reconsider their position as they move closer to the truth.

 

Max says that us men can only get so far before we need the women to take us to the higher levels. It doesn't mean that you need to physically have sex with them to benefit. Take our seminars for instance, you have 3 men and 3 women moving through the group helping to open people up. someone may be more receptive to the male energy while others are more receptive to the female. It just comes down to what you need for balance.

 

More agro guys like me need lots of female energy to hit the deep stuff in my heart. Historically I have been less receptive to Max's energy. His (like mine) is pretty yang.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Mantra68

[mYTHmAKER]

If you really want to know ask an immortal.

Otherwise it is pure speculation.

None of the "teachers" have the answer.

Please don't quote scriptures.

[Cameron]

Here is one for all of the burly types:

Shudo Samurai traditions

 

Any claims against people who are homosexual being capable of self-enlightenment are just bullshit.

 

All the "phobes" will eventually need to reconsider their position as they move closer to the truth.

 

Max says that us men can only get so far before we need the women to take us to the higher levels. It doesn't mean that you need to physically have sex with them to benefit. Take our seminars for instance, you have 3 men and 3 women moving through the group helping to open people up. someone may be more receptive to the male energy while others are more receptive to the female. It just comes down to what you need for balance.

 

More agro guys like me need lots of female energy to hit the deep stuff in my heart. Historically I have been less receptive to Max's energy. His (like mine) is pretty yang.

 

Hehe..well that's pretty interesting.

 

Luckily my Japanese teacher is happily married with kids..and I guess I am beyond the age of consent anyway..ahhh...next topic!

[Smile]

Max says that us men can only get so far before we need the women to take us to the higher levels. It doesn't mean that you need to physically have sex with them to benefit.

I agree. Someone has to be there to cook and clean.

[sean]

[Cameron]

Excellent points Sean.

 

Thanks for the Eckhart quote my main interest at the moment is seeing if I am going to see him next monday or not. Seems like "nature" is going to stop me from doing so.

 

But let's hope those fires die down for the sake of everyone.

 

I wonder how Trunk is doing?

[Cameron]

On a related topic what do you all think about it being revealed that Dumbeldor from Harry Potter is a man lover?

 

Pretty racey!

[VCraigP]

[VeeCee]

On a related topic what do you all think about it being revealed that Dumbeldor from Harry Potter is a man lover?

 

Pretty racey!

 

Not too surprising actually. There has never been any mention of a female love interest for him in any of the books. The whole description of Grindewald and his friendship with Dumbledore in the last book seem to be leading in that direction.

[arnquist]

On a related topic what do you all think about it being revealed that Dumbeldor from Harry Potter is a man lover?

 

Pretty racey!

I think lots of Harry Potter fans wish they never heard that. I think it's a good thing the way she announced it after all seven books were finished, now the really big fans may be forced to see Dumbledore, a character they love and admire, and by extension homosexuality in a different way. But since she didn't write it explicitly it doesn't "damage" the story for those who chose to ignore that bit of information.