Split from Awakening versus enlightenment

[dwai]

Reason cannot define itself. It is an inherent and inextricable faculty of a human being. You are using the fallacy of the stolen concept. You are using reason, so, now you must ask yourself the self same questions. It is you that is arguing the case against reason, by using reason. Therefore you must find another way.

Why can't reasoning be defined? I propose that the following is a good place to start -

 

1. perception of objects by the subject (here perception means anything that is encountered by the sensory apparatuses)
2. categorization of the objects based on perception (in classical Indian philosophy it is called Nama-Rupa  or Label and Form) 
3. Ascribe values to the categorized objects (this is good, that is bad,) and forming a map of interrelated values (and objects). That's why over time, ability to reason improves...because we experience more objects and have more empirical data on basis of which the map and rules can be first formulated and then refined.
4. Act (or refrain from acting) according the values ascribed to the categorized objects. This is good for me, so I do x, that is bad so I do z

That is the essence of reasoning and logic. It is a mechanism via which we survive and interact in this world. What is so hard to define in this?

 

Again, you assume that I am arguing against reasoning. I am not arguing against Reasoning...however the fact that you perceive this as a threat indicates to me that you are being defensive because there might be something to it there.

[Karl]

Why can't reasoning be defined? I propose that the following is a good place to start -

 

1. perception of objects by the subject (here perception means anything that is encountered by the sensory apparatuses)
   
2. categorization of the objects based on perception (in classical Indian philosophy it is called Nama-Rupa  or Label and Form) 
   
3. Ascribe values to the categorized objects (this is good, that is bad,) and forming a map of interrelated values (and objects). That's why over time, ability to reason improves...because we experience more objects and have more empirical data on basis of which the map and rules can be first formulated and then refined.
   
4. Act (or refrain from acting) according the values ascribed to the categorized objects. This is good for me, so I do x, that is bad so I do z
   

That is the essence of reasoning and logic. It is a mechanism via which we survive and interact in this world. What is so hard to define in this?

 

Again, you assume that I am arguing against reasoning. I am not arguing against Reasoning...however the fact that you perceive this as a threat indicates to me that you are being defensive because there might be something to it there.

 

I was reading your post as asking for proof of reasoning which is what I was alluding to. We can define reasoning.

 

Another definition could be : Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses.

 

 

 

[Bud Jetsun]

Unlikely.

 

 

Could I burden you to share more about that shroomy Buddha carving?

[bax44]

Most major religions including Buddhism are based upon the sacred mushroom, I reckon this will be the basis of what Karl is trying to get across with the budda under the tree err um shroom

Edited September 30, 2015 by bax44

[dawei]

~~~ THREAD CLOSED FOR REVIEW OF MAJOR CLEANUP ~~~

 

This has gone so far off topic, which is fine in some situations but the hijacking of logical reasoning posts is getting quite bothersome.

 

 

Re-Opened in Off-topic as a Split.

[seekingbuddha]

NOTE to the admins - I was following the original thread, but when the split happened, i got subscribed to this split  off that was created, rather than being a follower of the original thread.   Perhaps admins can consider this note for future, when they split of another thread like this.

 

BTW,  thanks a bunch for locking and splitting off.  There is too much negativity sensed in this thread,  and I will be unfollowing this thread.

[seekingbuddha]

The irony is strong here.

 

Stronger irony is that you talk so much about reason and logic, but your behavior does not reflect application of both.  Single handedly you managed to hijack  this thread, and posted so much off topic, despite my warning.  I hope you learnt a lesson from the admins now.  

 

This is not a forum for  display of skills in reasoning and logic,  but is forum for those who have "faith"  which is a pre requisite quoted by all the Supremely Enlightened humans that we know of.  Faith arises as an experience, not by mere reasoning or logic.  Do you really want to belong to this forum, without much needed faith ? Answer to your own self, not me, because I won't be reading this thread anymore.

[Karl]

Stronger irony is that you talk so much about reason and logic, but your behavior does not reflect application of both. Single handedly you managed to hijack this thread, and posted so much off topic, despite my warning. I hope you learnt a lesson from the admins now.

 

This is not a forum for display of skills in reasoning and logic, but is forum for those who have "faith" which is a pre requisite quoted by all the Supremely Enlightened humans that we know of. Faith arises as an experience, not by mere reasoning or logic. Do you really want to belong to this forum, without much needed faith ? Answer to your own self, not me, because I won't be reading this thread anymore.

Buddhist takes ball and runs home ? ;-)

 

I suppose it's hardly worth pointing out that you had to use reasoning in order to make that hypocritical statement as you have metaphorically stuck your fingers in your ears.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Karl

[dawei]

NOTE to the admins - I was following the original thread, but when the split happened, i got subscribed to this split  off that was created, rather than being a follower of the original thread.   Perhaps admins can consider this note for future, when they split of another thread like this.

 

BTW,  thanks a bunch for locking and splitting off.  There is too much negativity sensed in this thread,  and I will be unfollowing this thread.

 

Interesting info...  I am not sure which post(s) triggers the 'follow' but I do appreciate the feedback.  

[dawei]

Interesting info...  I am not sure which post(s) triggers the 'follow' but I do appreciate the feedback.  

 

BTW: I figured out why that happened... and know how to avoid it.  thanks again.

[Basher]

La, lah, lah..........I'm not listening any more (puts hands over ears)