When Bad Things Happen to Bad People

[Aaron]

Recently I experienced some harassment by people in my community because of my sexual orientation. It became increasingly bad and as I muddled on through as best I could I couldn't help wondering why bad things happen to "good" people. I actually was hoping that karma would catch up to them at one point, sadly, one by one, each of them had seriously bad things happen to them, I mean the kinds of things that scar and change you forever. At some point I couldn't help but feel horrible and I honestly hoped it wasn't caused by my desire for justice, because in my mind I didn't want to be a part of their suffering in any way. The anger that I had towards them for what they'd done just evaporated. I couldn't be angry about a few words and conspiring actions, when these people were suffering the way they were. What ended up happening is that these people's actions towards me changed as well, they stopped harassing me and one even started to have conversations with me. No one apologized, but in my mind that's not needed.  

 

So the question is what do we do when bad things happen to bad people? If I celebrate in the misfortune of others, even if they've done something harmful to me, what does that say about me? I'm wondering if you have experienced bullying and harassment and what you did about it when it happened? 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Aaron

[Brian]

<snip>

If I celebrate in the misfortune of others, even if they've done something harmful to me, what does that say about me?

<snip>

That you are asking this question seems significant to me, Aaron. It is a wonderful question to ask of one's self.

 

It is good that you let go quickly. If you let someone else's projections cling to you, you become entangled with them, with their energy. As we become more refined and become realigned with "that which is," we become more nuanced and subtle. The opportunity is here to learn from our own responses to situations of adversity, to contemplate the well-being of those who slight us or mean us ill. You were drawn into a post-aggression response which, regardless of whether responsible for their subsequent misfortunes, troubles you. Learn from that response and from your own reaction to it and let it guide future interactions. Clarify yourself and Light will shine through you.

[manitou]

Aaron, it sounds like you were in the wu-wei as all this happened.  I'm so sorry you were made to feel 'less than' because of bullying.  But don't forget for a moment Who You Are.  You know Who You Are, they don't.  They don't realize for one moment that there is no separation between them and you, and the oneness of all.  They are to be pitied, and I'm so glad your desire for retribution was short and quickly terminated.  Actually, wow.  You really transcended that nasty event like a true champion.

 

And to directly try to address your last question as to bad things happening to good people - don't forget that diagnosing things as good or bad is a dual activity and as such, isn't real.  What's good to you might be bad to me, and vice versa.  it all just Is, that's all.  It's all relative.  And yeah, celebrating something bad happening to another does serious damage to your soul and set you back a few steps on your spiritual quest.

[Karl]

Interesting question. I believe we have a right and duty to defend ourselves proportionately in whatever way we can. This might be verbally or by violent application of force depending on circumstances. It's true to some extent that those dishing it out are often more miserable than those to whom the are dishing it. The result is that miserable, angry and violent people often become victims of their own actions either passively or actively. If your tormentors have been felled by their own actions then they have ceased tormenting you and as long as you don't carry the burden of that torment as a grudge then things usually work out. You have neither been cause or actor in their misfortune and can be glad and happy they are out of your hair without the slightest guilt.

[idiot_stimpy]

Osho had a similar thing happen to him when he was young if I remember correctly. 

[Silent Answers]

All suffering is shared by all. You've played it nicely, so far. In fact, maybe sieze this chance and go the extra mile to help them out if possible. It might tip the scales back in your favour during future dealings.

 

Then again, your current position to just remove yourself from the situation is fine, too.

[thelerner]

 I don't believe thinking badly about people makes bad things happen to them.  If it did we'd have a much smaller population.

 

In movies the bad guy gets a comeuppance and we're supposed to cheer.   Real life is messy.  Full of shades of grey; lots of colors actually.  Good and bad roll around, sometimes changing places.  The best revenge is living well.  Defend when attacked, otherwise walk away, maybe even forgive.   Move on, grudges and hatred are chains. 

[Aaron]

Thanks to everyone that contributed to the conversation. A funny thing happened on the way to heaven, I got diabetes. I guess it was a matter of time, my diet had gone to crap and I was going to a miserable place. Society sets me on edge sometimes, almost akin to despair and when that happens the necessity for health and longevity seems to be thrown out the window. 

 

I was overjoyed that one of the people who I was referring to has had something incredibly good happen to them. It is amazing that we so often believe that we can define what someone deserves, when the universe itself cares nothing for morality. It's a wild world and I think we often want to bring a veil of order to the madness and chaos, when in fact you can't have order without the chaos. 

 

I'm currently pondering diets, but in the meantime I'm choosing a low carb approach. I could believe that diabetes is my fate, or I can choose to define my own fate, to the best of my ability. For right now I will be grateful that good things happen to people and remember good and bad have nothing to do with it. 

 

Again thanks everyone. I'm sorry it took so long to respond. It wasn't in disrespect, but just that I couldn't figure out what to say. Sorry for the rambling.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Aaron

[gendao]

You are holding and Freudian-projecting some problematic beliefs.

Blaming is not great, but shame is even worse. In fact, David Hawkins believes it is the lowest-vibrating emotion.

The difference between blaming and shaming is that in blaming someone tells you that you did something bad, in shaming someone tells you that you are something bad.

So, your underlying presumption is that your sexuality is bad. But, you then take that a step further and say that because your sexuality is bad, then YOU are bad. As are people who echo this belief...

Furthermore, if something bad (like diabetes) happens to someone, then conversely that must also mean that they are bad, right? Which now includes you, again.

Self-Loathing, also known as “Autophobia” or “Self-Hatred”, is a thought pattern where individuals believe they are inferior, bad, worthless, unlovable, or incompetent.
Rejection of one’s demographic origin - such as ethnic origin, religious orientation, nationality, gender or sexual orientation.

Shame naturally leads to self-loathing...

But then throw some added guilt on top of it all for feeling schadenfreude too just for good measure, and now you're really emotionally bottom feeding on a sh*t sundae with a cherry on top.

Edited September 25, 2015 by gendao

[liminal_luke]

Sorry you´ve been in some tough places lately, both with the harassment and the diabetes. I´ve been bullied for my sexual orientation as well, and I wasn´t so mindful as you´ve been thinking about it afterwards. I think you´ll have good results with the low-carb diet.

 

Liminal

[Aetherous]

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.

"Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.

"Maybe," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you." - Walt Disney. Perhaps these horrible things happening to these people who did wrong by you, was just what they needed in order to become more in touch with their humanity...to live more meaningful lives. If we got everything we wanted, perhaps we'd become spoiled monsters.

It's good that you questioned whether you're a good or bad person, too...because good people don't wish ill on others, even if those others mistreat them. To be crystal clear...regretting that you wished ill on others, because maybe it had some sort of effect, is not what makes a good person...it just means you're afraid of your own power, and let yourself go in an inward rage, rather than think ahead to consequences of that. Good people simply don't wish ill. Not saying I'm a good person...there are many times that I wish to strike back when wronged. That's because my heart is still corrupt...that's why it's considered a path of cultivation, and not a destination. There are others far more advanced along the path, who don't automatically go into striking back mode.

Just something to think about.

[Rara]

On the harrassment part, all I gotta say is that you can't help how you feel.

 

Once you felt angry. Then there was sadness when you learned these people were suffering.

 

You remind me of the stereotype compassionate warrior

 

The best thing to know is that there was nothing you could do to prevent the suffering.

[Rara]

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.

"Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.

"Maybe," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.

 

"You may not realize it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you." - Walt Disney. Perhaps these horrible things happening to these people who did wrong by you, was just what they needed in order to become more in touch with their humanity...to live more meaningful lives. If we got everything we wanted, perhaps we'd become spoiled monsters.

 

It's good that you questioned whether you're a good or bad person, too...because good people don't wish ill on others, even if those others mistreat them. To be crystal clear...regretting that you wished ill on others, because maybe it had some sort of effect, is not what makes a good person...it just means you're afraid of your own power, and let yourself go in an inward rage, rather than think ahead to consequences of that. Good people simply don't wish ill. Not saying I'm a good person...there are many times that I wish to strike back when wronged. That's because my heart is still corrupt...that's why it's considered a path of cultivation, and not a destination. There are others far more advanced along the path, who don't automatically go into striking back mode.

 

Just something to think about.

This.

[Aaron]

I just wanted to respond to some comments-

 

Aethorous, I don't believe any heart is corrupt or pure, they are merely hearts and minds. We all have the capacity to help and harm and if we don't reflect on that now and again, then where does that leave us? I think the most important thing I've come away with is that there are no good or bad people and to deign people as such is hubris. I am not good or bad, I am simply who I am. If I want to continue to grow as a person, or at least travel along the correct path, then it requires me to examine that path, but to see the path as good or bad is irrelevant, I need to see if it is the path I should be on, or if I've been sidetracked. In this case I allowed relentless hounding to impact my serenity and it cost me. 

 

Gendao, I have no guilt about my sexual orientation, in fact I embrace it. I never believed my sexuality was bad, I'm not sure where that came from, but rather that I was being targeted because others believed so. I believe shame is a healthy emotion, especially if it's in response to something we've done to cause harm to another. In fact shame is a direct response to our capacity to empathize with others. I think the goal is to overcome shame, but until we become enlightened I suggest we appreciate and address shame when we feel it. Of course there are unhealthy levels of shame, but that's not what I'm addressing here. 

 

As far as diabetes, it wasn't a karmic response, rather it was the fact I wasn't taking care of myself. I am rectifying that now and I hope to lose at least 20 pounds in the next few months. My goal is to get down below 200. If I do that, great, if I don't, then I'll probably start losing limbs and eventually die, but that isn't anyone else's fault but mine. 

 

Aaron

[Rara]

As far as diabetes, it wasn't a karmic response, rather it was the fact I wasn't taking care of myself. I am rectifying that now and I hope to lose at least 20 pounds in the next few months. My goal is to get down below 200. If I do that, great, if I don't, then I'll probably start losing limbs and eventually die, but that isn't anyone else's fault but mine.

 

Aaron

This is true and maybe the boot-camp attitude is helping you make the right changes?

 

I can be quite hard on myself like this too. My Dad is diabetic and we have a history heart attacks in the family. I'm 27 and have worked up to a strict 4x a week workout schedule and sugar cut. My Dad waited until his late 50s when his doctor told him he needed to make drastic changes.

 

Keep up the good work, but never get down about anything. Remember to treat yourself every now and then (maybe with something non-food related)

 

I treat myself with holidays and maybe soon football (soccer) games. Refreshing rewards for me.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Rara