Science meets Tummo: Wim Hof (The Ice Man)

[hagar]

Listened to the Tim Ferriss podcast yesterday, and came across an interview with Wim Hof; who through yogic breathing and cold exposure has been scientifically measured to regulate his body temperature at will and manipulate his immune system.

All this by simple pranayama/tummo-ish breathing and cold exposure.

What is even better is that he has climbed Everest in shorts and ran a marathon in the Namib desert without any water and holds some pretty gnarly records in ice bathing.

Pretty cool dude too, and overcame some tough hardships.

 

Anyways, pretty inspiring and made me all happy to see that this is finally hitting the scientific mainstream and could potentially disrupt both the pharmaceutical industry and more importantly the biomedical paradigm of reductionism and decartianism that we have been suffering under throught the Dark ages after the Enlightenment.

 

Check out the Vice doc:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/video/iceman

 

[forestofclarity]

I've been taking his course for the past 9 weeks. It works really well.

 

This is me sitting in a mountain lake at 13,000 feet. The water was colder than ice water. 

 

 

I don't know about sickness/immunity yet. I'll have to see how the winter goes. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by forestofemptiness

[voidisyinyang]

Did u study an internet course of his?

[MooNiNite]

The way he stays warm is a state of concentration equivalent of a Buddhist arhat. 

 

I dont believe people will be able to attain what he has through training alone. 

[voidisyinyang]

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/09/07/the-iceman-wim-hof/

 

This is the Tim Ferris interview with Wim Hof that the OP refers to.

 

I had not heard this yet - thanks.

 

http://timefrequencyqigong.blogspot.com/2015/07/we-got-healing-power-re-visiting-wim.html

 

I blogged on Wim Hof's method and why it works, etc.

 

Yeah I'm reviewing my research - and I didn't get it correct.

 

This Ferris interview corroborates his secret.

 

The hyperventilation artificially increases his stress hormones - specifically his adrenaline levels.

 

This enables him to jack up his immune system response and also lower his fear levels.

 

Also then he can hold his breath longer.

 

 

a few practices of gradual exposure to the cold are set out, including some methods honed by one of Wim’s students, Justin Rosales, who after about a year of intermittent training accomplished a world record duo with Wim!

 

yeah so then the holding the breath stage is the parasympathetic rebound.

 

 

The magnitude of the temperature increases significantly correlated with the increases in alpha power during Forceful Breath meditation.

 

A study of tummo nuns in Tibet.

 

 

Whereas the goal of FB is to raise “psychic heat”, the goal of GB is to maintain it. During FB, attention is focused on visualizing a rising flame that starts below the navel and with each breath rises up to the crown of the head, whereas GB is accompanied by visualization of the entire body being filled with a surging sensation of bliss and heat. It is physically difficult for practitioners to use the complex FB technique for extended periods of time or while walking around; therefore it is GB that is used during the ceremony of drying wet sheets.

 

 

Yeah so Wim Hof then relies on this "relaxation" method - deep breathing.

 

O.K. so the first step of hyperventilation lowers the carbon dioxide levels which causes your blood to be very alkaline.

 

As Wim Hof says in the Ferris interview - because their blood is alkaline from the hyperventilation then they can also hold their breath much longer without passing out.

 

 

 

If you hold your breath, carbon dioxide concentrations increase and carbonic acid forms:

CO2 + H2O  H2CO3

Carbonic acid dissociates to release free protons that cause the pH to fall.

H2CO3  H+ + HCO3-

It is thought that chemoreceptors in arteries detect the drop in pH and send signals via nerves to the respiratory centers in the brain, stimulating the breathing response.  The reverse holds true when there is insufficient carbon dioxide.

 

So holding the breath causes the blood to be acidic and it's this lower pH which forces the brain to stimulate breathing - but as Wim Hof says since the hyperventilation causes increase in alkalinity then the breath can be hold much longer.

 

So then the hyperventilation increases the adrenaline which activates the immune system.

 

But it is the holding the breath that is the parasympathetic rebound which increases the alpha brain waves and theta brain waves as the trance state.

 

http://timefrequencyqigong.blogspot.com/2015/07/we-got-healing-power-re-visiting-wim.html

[forestofclarity]

Yes, I'm almost finished with it.

 

Did u study an internet course of his?

[forestofclarity]

That is not true. I sat in two icy mountain lakes for more than 10 minutes where people's fingers went numb in a minute or two. They've also scientifically tested his students after a training study and saw the same effects on their immune system he had. The method requires only the minimal discipline necessary to follow through with the method. The rest just falls into place. 

 

The way he stays warm is a state of concentration equivalent of a Buddhist arhat. 

 

I dont believe people will be able to attain what he has through training alone. 

[MooNiNite]

That is not true. I sat in two icy mountain lakes for more than 10 minutes where people's fingers went numb in a minute or two. They've also scientifically tested his students after a training study and saw the same effects on their immune system he had. The method requires only the minimal discipline necessary to follow through with the method. The rest just falls into place. 

 

What I am saying is true. If one reaches the level of concentration equivalent to an arhat, they can stay in those lakes for hours, even days if they need to. I believe Wim can do this. 

[Mandrake]

What I am saying is true. If one reaches the level of concentration equivalent to an arhat, they can stay in those lakes for hours, even days if they need to. I believe Wim can do this. 

 

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that Hof uses that particular method/has that realization.

 

In fact, his methods are out there in a book written by one of his young students who describes his training and consequent experiences. Curiously enough, it's not Tummo at all, but a series of pranayama breathings.

 

 

M

[soaring crane]

I find his ability to regulate his temperature in extreme heat even more astounding than the cold.

 

Does anyone know what hes doing right now?

[Perceiver]

What's the benefit of training in his system. Is it to be able to stay outside with no clothes on? Coats and clothes have been invented and are fairly cheap .

[MooNiNite]

knowledge deleted. 

Edited October 10, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Not sure about commercial entirely, it appears to me he has shared a lot of information freely.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Sionnach

[thelerner]

There are undoubtedly spiritual applications, but don't think its necessarily Arhat level stuff.  There's enough survival and immunity boosting properties in it that it'd be great if schools could teach a light version of it as a gym segment.  

 

 

Matter of fact simple cold showers seem to produce some nice health benefits all by themselves. 

 

FWIW info on his 10 Week video course http://www.wimhofmethod.com/ it's $199.  U.S

course, learning with the man, is probably way better then a video course.  On the third hand, such training could save ones life. From the site:

• How much investment of time will I need to get benefits from this course?

  The daily investment is 60 minutes of your time. For those who cannot make it for the full hour, included are two special videos of 4 minutes and 10 minutes. So whatever time you can commit to this training, you will be able to experience amazing results. You have life time access so you can follow the course at your own pace.

 

Also found this on higherexistence.com (Don't know if it'll work)

(Get exclusive 25% DISCOUNT on Wim’s online course with code ‘high25′)

could be worthwhile.. winter is coming

 

I've done a little tumo, never got too good at it though.  I've also done winter misogi training where you do heavy duty martial arts, meditation, shinto chanting then walk into an freezing icy river and do some kiai's in it.  Its good to toughen up. 

 

We have houses and hats, but there might be times we don't.  In life there are opportunities to give your coat to a person who doesn't have one.  And it makes you feel very good.

 

Tumo itself may be a great immunity enhancer.  A way to get recover faster, maybe minimize sickness.  In the video Hof, and more importantly some of his students were injected with something that'd give them fever and a head ache and they over came it. 

 

One of my heroes Joseph Greenstein the Mighty Atom would do breathing exercises outside in the winter and rub snow over his body.  Maybe not all that odd in Eastern Europe.  He also had superb mind/body connection and could do extraordinary feats of strength.  It may all be connected. 

 

So.. maybe $150 or $200 for a 10 week class..

Edited October 9, 2015 by thelerner

[forestofclarity]

Good question. The most direct and obvious benefit for me is an increase in energy, especially physical energy. I actually enjoy physical exercise for the first time in my life. I'm also more flexible and can do the full lotus for the first time since I was a teenager. I can stand on my head (with some initial wall assistance) for the first time ever. I also tripled my ability to retain my breath, which is useful in breathing practice. Overall, it fosters a great connection with the body. It gets the energy moving and flowing as well. 

 

The cold is a great training tool. Cold tends to lead to tension and contraction. By applying the method, you learn to embrace the cold, to stay open and relaxed in the face of your urge to contract. This also has applications to other discomforts. It also develops inner will power and strength, which is another bonus.

 

 

What's the benefit of training in his system. Is it to be able to stay outside with no clothes on? Coats and clothes have been invented and are fairly cheap .

[WilliamChan]

I have taken his online course before, it was very, very nice when it comes to physical health benefit.  It is one of the quickest path to health to me.  The physical health (in Wim Hof) will of course affect your mental health too (more calm, more centered, more focused, more confidence), but not in a very spiritual way (ecstasy, Divine Love, Oneness), in my opinion.

 

So I think it is important to know that it is not Tummo.  The feeling of practice is so different.  (Please note that I did not go much into the cold shower therapy, and is not a long term practitioner, and so my below conclusion is only based on a mere experience).

 

First, in Wim Hof, there is not many yogic technique applied (neither indian nor tibetan).  In the retention, there is no Bandha applied, not requiring your spine to be straight.  Only Hyperventilation and Retention matters! (O2 and CO2)!

 

Second, the energy developed feels different too.  In Wim Hof I think it has utilized so much energy from the O2 (you will understand when you google his technique).  The many lights shown at the end of the retention is very intense, straight to the crown chakra, but it is NOT ecstasy-related (kundalini energy), which you will get from Tummo or Indian Yoga.  You will have a very cooling sensation over the head and the whole body.

 

Due to the system of body those energies will also turn into liquid form too (like in Neidan or Yoga), after reaching the center of brain, but since what has been sent to the brain is energy released from O2, instead of kundalini released from pelvic area as in Tummo / Yoga, so what comes down is not Shiva or White Drops.  But to me his method is already better than many normal Qigong.

 

If you are looking for a better healthy and emotional stability, Wim Hof method is easier, faster and more doable.  If you are a spiritual seeker, or looking for a completely different living quality, I think the traditional Tummo could be better.

 

It is possible that after intense practice for long time, the things mentioned above will change in a way that I have yet to experienced.  In Wim Hof's book, The Iceman, it has mentioned that he has once experienced Oneness.  He did not describe in detail about his experience, so I do not know for sure, whether it is Oneness as in Yoga definition, and whether he attributes this experience much to his practice of breathing.

 

I really appreciate the effort of Wim Hof.  I think his technique can really make a difference to the world someday.  For those who are interested in Tummo, I think you could go to http://awakenetwork.org/forum/kfd-archive-wetpaint/12575-tummo?limitstart=0 to see all the details.

Edited September 22, 2015 by WilliamChan

[thelerner]

Anyone interested in taking the course and being a study buddy?

 

If the coupon works its just $150ish.  Better immunity, protection against cold, better mind/body control?

Edited September 22, 2015 by thelerner

[thelerner]

bump..

the 25% off coupon seems to work.  Bringing the price down to 149.25.  I'll be out of town, helping my parents for a week.  Maybe when I get back..

Might be nice to finish it up by December chill.

Edited September 28, 2015 by thelerner

[Ell]

What an amazing video/story. I love to hear about stuff like this. Also, as a producer/independent filmmaker myself, I always have aspirations kicking around of tracking down stories like these, people doing things not thought possible, etc. 

 

 

 

I've been taking his course for the past 9 weeks. It works really well.

 

This is me sitting in a mountain lake at 13,000 feet. The water was colder than ice water. 

 

 

 

I don't know about sickness/immunity yet. I'll have to see how the winter goes. 

 

Congrats on your success. Just a nitpicky, alternate opinion for you to think about, said with all due respect: get that "don't know" out of your mind in regards to your last sentence. The doubt about it is as much the sickness as anything. Even when training is stressed, or necessary, I believe, and have seen first hand,that the power of belief cannot be understated.  

[thelerner]

I've been pondering taking the 10 week course.  Just listened to a podcast called Heat Comes from Within, an interview with Hof.  That convinced me.  So I'm signed up.  Code word- High25 worked so it was $50 off.  As Innerqigong said, some of the process is from near hyperventative breathing, raising acid in the blood, bringing out alkaline in the system.  This seems to create a body that goes faster and longer.

 

It might be doing some interesting things for the brain too.  Activating some of the inner levels that don't get stimulated much.  In that way its echoes 9 Bottle Breathing and extreme long breath cycles.  I'm reminded of the Japanese 'Edison' who credited his creativity with swimming under water until he's about to die.  Holding the breath may stimulate and release hormones that we usually don't. 

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.danielvitalis.com/rewild-yourself-podcast/heat-comes-from-within-mastering-cold-with-wim-hof

 

Here's the link for the Heats Come From Within podcast

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Biology Now | W. W. Norton & Company

books.wwnorton.com/books/webad.aspx?id...

W. W. Norton & Company

Almost every figure in the book is accompanied by three critical thinking questions ... Unit 5: Physiology ... Endocrine and Immune Systems: Testing the Iceman.

[voidisyinyang]

Latest Wim Hof - on Joe Rogan!!!

 

 

Remember folks when I posted a challenge to Joe Rogan to cover paranormal breathing techniques!

 

Wim Hof has done it! Joe Rogan was forced to mainstream this topic.

 

 

Another new Wim Hof....

[voidisyinyang]

So Wim Hof really reveals the science secrets.

 

So his deep breathing method - after 30 breaths you hold breath on exhale right?

 

Each time you do that cycle then you can hold the breath longer after exhale - why? because the blood PH is so much more alkaline.

 

So then while the breath is held - then oxygen levels plummet but since your blood PH is so much higher your body is fine - but the primitive brain then kicks out HUGE levels of adrenaline which then causes the immune system to go into overdrive.... and huge strength, and huge qi increase and seeing lights.

 

This IS the secret - he figured it out by science standards!