Why some countries are poor, and some rich

[Perceiver]

Excellent video that shows that there are numerous factors behind this complex phenomenon: Religion, culture, geography, institutions. Can warmly recommend other videos from "school of life" also:

[Basher]

Interesting & thought provoking.....watched a couple of others too. Excellent. :ph34r:

[canacan]

Excellent video that shows that there are numerous factors behind this complex phenomenon: Religion, culture, geography, institutions. Can warmly recommend other videos from "school of life" also:

There are two reasons why I won't watch that video.

 

The first reason is the same I don't watch YouTube when looking for wisdom.

 

Duke Huan, seated above in his hall, was (once) reading a book, and the wheelwright Bian was making a wheel below it. Laying aside his hammer and chisel, Bian went up the steps, and said, 'I venture to ask your Grace what words you are reading?' The duke said, 'The words of the sages.' 'Are those sages alive?' Bian continued. 'They are dead,' was the reply. 'Then,' said the other, 'what you, my Ruler, are reading are only the dregs and sediments of those old men.' The duke said, 'How should you, a wheelwright, have anything to say about the book which I am reading? If you can explain yourself, very well; if you cannot, you shall, die!' The wheelwright said, 'Your servant will look at the thing from the point of view of his own art. In making a wheel, if I proceed gently, that is pleasant enough, but the workmanship is not strong; if I proceed violently, that is toilsome and the joinings do not fit. If the movements of my hand are neither (too) gentle nor (too) violent, the idea in my mind is realised. But I cannot tell (how to do this) by word of mouth; there is a knack in it. I cannot teach the knack to my son, nor can my son learn it from me. Thus it is that I am in my seventieth year, and am (still) making wheels in my old age. But these ancients, and what it was not possible for them to convey, are dead and gone: so then what you, my Ruler, are reading is but their dregs and sediments!'

 

The other reason is the title. But this is of lesser importance.

Edited September 22, 2015 by canacan

[soaring crane]

Interesting & thought provoking.....watched a couple of others too. Excellent. :ph34r:

 

I agree, although I do see it as a highly simplified presentation.

[soaring crane]

There are two reasons why I won't watch that video.

 

The first reason is the same I don't watch YouTube when looking for wisdom.

 

 

But internet forums are OK?

[Perceiver]

I am intriguied canacan as to why you dont want to watch the video? And why the title is not ok?

[thelerner]

I understand canacan's point of view.  Internet 'wisdom' is a trap, one I certainly fall into too often.  The assumption that a quickie article or 8 minute video will teach me something significant is like the nutritional value of candy.  It feels good while I listen and read, some of it, is quality candy, but its no substitute for real food, ie serious study.

 

If I fill up my time (and I do) watching 8 minute youtubes, reading great 8 minute articles, I'll fool myself into thinking I know something, but the reality is: to really know takes real study.  Not a book, but books, in depth.   So the serious scholar goes deep not wide. 

 

Course I'm not a serious scholar, but its good to get away from the internet and pick up a few books on a subject and go deep. 

[canacan]

I understand canacan's point of view. Internet 'wisdom' is a trap, one I certainly fall into too often. The assumption that a quickie article or 8 minute video will teach me something significant is like the nutritional value of candy. It feels good while I listen and read, some of it, is quality candy, but its no substitute for real food, ie serious study.

 

If I fill up my time (and I do) watching 8 minute youtubes, reading great 8 minute articles, I'll fool myself into thinking I know something, but the reality is: to really know takes real study. Not a book, but books, in depth. So the serious scholar goes deep not wide.

 

Course I'm not a serious scholar, but its good to get away from the internet and pick up a few books on a subject and go deep.

I somewhat agree. Except that I have less belief than you have in books, even better books.

 

To me, without experience, there is no possible wisdom. Books and talks are great to compare experiences, reorganize thoughts and such. But that is after you gained some first hand experience on the subject. Heated conversations can even be experiences in themselves. The problem with videos, is people automatically have a bias to them, taking them much too seriously (accepting or opposing), while the same opinion in chat would have been treated as lightly as it deserves (hopefully). I often wouldn't care... But when it touches philosophical, political or spiritual subjects, I feel it is cheating oneself.

 

I have very little considerations for words and speeches. It takes at the very least huge paradoxes to say something of value.

Edited September 22, 2015 by canacan

[Karl]

What a complete pile of statist crap.

 

The reason poor countries are poor is because they have few if any property rights and so they have no way to accumulate capital.

Capitalism is the engine of growth based on the maintenance of property rights under law.

 

It is not due to institutions or society, but the method of private ownership, law of comparative advantage, law of association, capital formation and competition.

 

It was the harsh northern climates that pushed their populations into having to try new methods. Had it not been for China miring itself in bureaucracy, massive government and high taxation it is probable that the technologically poor European principalities would never have become wealthy and powerful. They were forced to trade and compete which produced an abundance.

 

The USA was an outgrowth of European culture and for a few hundred years they practised an even freer form of lassez faire competetive free trade than Europe under its mercantile conglomerate state monopolies.

 

As if this isn't obvious enough we need only ask which comes first; institutions or wealth creation ? Institutions do not produce anything, they consume. Wealth must first be produced so that they can exist. Our institutions are busy destroying us.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Karl

[Basher]

Some of those in Power have lovely Palaces/Cars/Planes/Ships etc., whilst their people starve & have Nothing !

[Karl]

Some of those in Power have lovely Palaces/Cars/Planes/Ships etc., whilst their people starve & have Nothing !

 

They prevent the people owning land or resource and are often reliant on foreign aid plus the income derived from foreign companies who mine their resources. Effectively a version of whisky, guns and beads in order that the population is kept poverty strapped and incapable of revolution.

[thelerner]

 

The reason poor countries are poor is because they have few if any property rights and so they have no way to accumulate capital.

Capitalism is the engine of growth based on the maintenance of property rights under law. <Greatly Agree

 

It is not due to institutions or society,   <Disagree

 

It was the harsh northern climates that pushed their populations into having to try new methods. Had it not been for China miring itself in bureaucracy, massive government and high taxation it is probable that the technologically poor European principalities would never have become wealthy and powerful. They were forced to trade and compete which produced an abundance. <agree

 

The USA was an outgrowth of European culture and for a few hundred years they practised an even freer form of lassez faire competetive free trade than Europe under its mercantile conglomerate state monopolies.

 

As if this isn't obvious enough we need only ask which comes first; institutions or wealth creation ? Institutions do not produce anything, they consume. Wealth must first be produced so that they can exist. Our institutions are busy destroying us.  <???

2 agrees, one a greatly agree, one disagree, and a ???. 

Slowly your making progress with me .

[Karl]

2 agrees, one a greatly agree, one disagree, and a ???.

Slowly your making progress with me .

Despite the improvements the free market (or wthat which remains) our standard of living of the middle classes is falling. A good example is the current cost of housing. In 1950 a median income could purchase a median home for two years income. Today it takes 10 years of income to buy that same home, despite the government policies to make houses more affordable, they have become 500% more expensive.

 

The value of income has fallen and where once it required only one wage earner to support a family in reasonable comfort, it now take both husband and wife to work. One might ponder the effect on the children in a family that must utilise the state to be babysitter and parent whilst the natural parents work.

 

What about education. Highly educated students leaving college with enormous debts they will never pay back, trying to find jobs that do not exist.

 

We could look at the QE scams, artificially low interest rates which have destroyed savings and dragged retirees back into the workforce.

 

Then there are the wars which have increased the threat to our safety and cost us more of our production and the blood of soldiers , the intensive, costly, personal surveillance on our private lives as a result of creating enemies.

 

Then the Health service which, in the UK is collapsing and Obamacare which is a costly mess.

 

It's pretty endless really, but hey, if I can make a bit of progress then all is good :-)

 

Funnily enough I have just been talking to a guy on the Disqus open comment site who posted a link to Setfan Molyneux's lecture. He was a bit surprised it 'resonated' with me as there are so few of us.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Karl

[thelerner]

I attribute some of 'our' poorness to the 'flattening' of the world.  The economy has gone global.  There are a lot of boats in the third world that have risen; and our first world boats (now manufactured in China) have gone down a bit because of it. 

 

I may be channeling my inner Marx but in terms of the total humanities well being, the human race in toto might be the better for it.  Since the low end that was rose, was in bad poverty ridden shape. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by thelerner

[Karl]

I attribute some of 'our' poorness to the 'flattening' of the world.  The economy has gone global.  There are a lot of boats in the third world that have risen; and our first world boats (now manufactured in China) have gone down a bit because of it. 

 

I may be channeling my inner Marx but in terms of the total humanities well being, the human race in toto might be the better for it.  Since the low end that was rose, was in bad poverty ridden shape. 

 

Well to some extent this is true. An enormous number of people moved from poverty stricken agriculture and into higher value production. This is good for everybody 'all things being equal' however, all things are not equal. The resultant collapse of the western middle classes is a result of government. This is the result of several policies:

 

1. To control the money supply creating high levels of debt. Low returns on capital savings. Moving wealth to the already wealthy.

2. Crony capitalism that has destroyed opportunities for new, competetive businesses through regulations/subsidies/tariffs.

3. An education system which has been designed for an economy which no longer exists and which is about state control.

4. An over expensive bloated state, welfare, public wage/pension, warfare state government which takes too much tax, borrows too much and is preventing opportunity of employment for the poor/ethnic/black/ young through minimum wages.

 

We have a collapse in the policies which made the West wealthy and are well on the way to a stagnant west which has been called 'the fourth world' which is a world by design or the NWO. Indeed your assertion that you believe this 'equalling up' of countries as being desirable is precisely the propaganda that has been pumped out for the last 25 years. Of course you need to know what you are being fed in order to resist it.

[noonespecial]

define rich

[ralis]

Well to some extent this is true. An enormous number of people moved from poverty stricken agriculture and into higher value production. This is good for everybody 'all things being equal' however, all things are not equal. The resultant collapse of the western middle classes is a result of government. This is the result of several policies: 1. To control the money supply creating high levels of debt. Low returns on capital savings. Moving wealth to the already wealthy. 2. Crony capitalism that has destroyed opportunities for new, competetive businesses through regulations/subsidies/tariffs. 3. An education system which has been designed for an economy which no longer exists and which is about state control. 4. An over expensive bloated state, welfare, public wage/pension, warfare state government which takes too much tax, borrows too much and is preventing opportunity of employment for the poor/ethnic/black/ young through minimum wages. We have a collapse in the policies which made the West wealthy and are well on the way to a stagnant west which has been called 'the fourth world' which is a world by design or the NWO. Indeed your assertion that you believe this 'equalling up' of countries as being desirable is precisely the propaganda that has been pumped out for the last 25 years. Of course you need to know what you are being fed in order to resist it.

 

In your entire narrative here, you have failed to mentioned the problems of human nature. Avarice, sociopathology, psychopathology, dishonesty, war and the failure to respect others boundaries. That is where government is necessary so that rules are instituted to prevent chaos. History is replete with examples of the lowest of human behavior.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ralis

[Michael Sternbach]

The video correctly identifies correlations between a country's economic condition and certain other circumstances, but claims that the latter are the causes of the former, when this, in some cases, is far from clear.

 

For example, alledgedly, corrupt institutions are the main reason for a country being poor, but in truth, it could well be the other way around: Institutions might be corrupt because of the poverty. Likewise, epidemics could be an effect, not a cause. Etc.

 

Or the poverty and these circumstances could be reinforcing each other. The documentation, although thought provoking in some regards, seems highly simplistic to me.

[thelerner]

define rich

someone making 100% more then you do..?

[noonespecial]

someone making 100% more then you do..?

 

damnit.

[Karl]

In your entire narrative here, you have failed to mentioned the problems of human nature. Avarice, sociopathology, psychopathology, dishonesty, war and the failure to respect others boundaries. That is where government is necessary so that rules are instituted to prevent chaos. History is replete with examples of the lowest of human behavior.

 

Of course you have either bought into this BS because you are unable to discriminate, or you are an official part of it. Jury's out on that at the moment.

 

Your narrative is exactly that of one who supports the NWO. It has the flavour of the Hegelian dialectic with its synthesis. I can read it very easily-just so you know. Occasionally I like to throw the dog a bone and see what it does with it ;-)

 

Avarice, psychopaths, dishonesty, war, boundaries are inherent features of the state and its government. Chaos has been guaranteed by its existent ene and not diminished.

 

What your synthesis requires is 'one world' in which everyone is exactly equal, total control by an intellectual elite, no more wars, population control, eugenics, the removal of human 'insanity' by force if necessary-reduction in male population, the ending of the destruction of Gaia.

 

Is that about it ?

[canacan]

But internet forums are OK?

It is both the same and there is a huge difference.

 

At least, people can debate value of sources they point to... Short lived debate when the source is a snippet of YouTube propaganda aimed at people with short attention span and no incentive to read indepth books.

 

Are Internet forums OK? ... I still don't know...

 

At least if feels like there is some interaction.

Edited September 23, 2015 by canacan

[Basher]

I'm currently trying to make my way through 4 different "physical" Books, plus various others on my Kindle*.

(* other tablets are available)

 

A brief overview / introduction is exactly that.

It must be stripped down / simplified, else it won't be brief !!

 

It's not intended to explain everything relating to that subject.

Surely it's only meant to give you an incentive to explore a subject in more depth, if you feel the need.

 

Or am I missing something ?

[canacan]

Ok. I have seen it now. It is even worse than I thought. Propaganda, lies, buzzwords, treats people like dumb children... You name it.

 

The simplistic, dualistic title and it's appeal to the need to find cause to situations, I thought would naturally make smile or laugh people versed in any form of Daoism.

 

"Why is Dao as it is?" Is the very question by which refusal Daoism was able to flourish.

Edited September 23, 2015 by canacan

[thelerner]

Of course you have either bought into this BS because you are unable to discriminate, or you are an official part of it. Jury's out on that at the moment. Your narrative is exactly that of one who supports the NWO. It has the flavour of the Hegelian dialectic with its synthesis. I can read it very easily-just so you know. Occasionally I like to throw the dog a bone and see what it does with it ;-) Avarice, psychopaths, dishonesty, war, boundaries are inherent features of the state and its government. Chaos has been guaranteed by its existent ene and not diminished. What your synthesis requires is 'one world' in which everyone is exactly equal, total control by an intellectual elite, no more wars, population control, eugenics, the removal of human 'insanity' by force if necessary-reduction in male population, the ending of the destruction of Gaia. Is that about it ?

In my mind there is a large middle ground between having some government and the NWO.   Karl, if you want to live in the world of possibility you may want to aim at smaller government, which is certainly possible, versus No Government which barring apocalypse is not. 

 

I think Rallis is for smaller government.  Really most people are.  They just want to cut programs that help other groups .