experience with impact weapons or strike enhancers?

[mewtwo]

So I was wondering does anyone on here have any real world or sparring experience with impact weapons such as batons tonfas saps etc Or strike enhancers like brass knuckles kubotans etc?

 

Like how well do they work in a fight? Did they break? Did they hurt you more than the opponent? Etc? Any input is appreciated. 

 

Thanks

[Marblehead]

While in the Army the butt end of my M1 worked very well on friendly forces.

 

The other end was used for enemy forces.

 

I'm still alive so I guess things went well.

 

I'll leave the rest of the thread to the martial artists.

[AussieTrees]

Thoughtfulness,then 'use your words',can have very positive impact.

Maybe so effective,no need for combat.

[Nungali]

Yeah .... when using nunchuks, if you do actually manage to hit something, it may bounce back , usually towards your face, strikes have to be ready to dodge, or be delivered with a body alignment out of the way of any surprise return. (But not many people know how to actually use them practically ) To an extent, any striker will do that, depending on what they hit, more so if it jointed or has a movable grip (like a tonfa )  ...  some of these weapons require a pretty strong grip to be used effectivly - remember, in many cases, these people worked with these tools all day, so were adapted to and strong in their adaption to their use ( it is said Itosu could crush a green bamboo culm with his grip ). 

 

The same with surigin , but when you miss the target ( but only with rope - and the thinner the rope or cord, more so -  not the chain version.) ... usually straight back to the point of delivery , ie.  you. 

 

Rattan is very 'bouncy' 

[Nungali]

Thoughtfulness,then 'use your words',can have very positive impact.

Maybe so effective,no need for combat.

 

Right, but the question is about fighting experience, not how to talk your way out of a fight .

[Nungali]

While in the Army the butt end of my M1 worked very well on friendly forces.

 

The other end was used for enemy forces.

 

I'm still alive so I guess things went well.

 

I'll leave the rest of the thread to the martial artists.

 

 

I am sure you must be familiar with 'bounce back'   ?

 

 

... check this genius  

 

 

[Marblehead]

I am sure you must be familiar with 'bounce back'   ?

 

... check this genius  

Yes, a shot gun will teach anyone a lesson the first time they fire one.

 

I remember the first time I fired my dad's 12 gauge at the age of maybe 11 or 12.  I was sitting on the porch holding it as my dad instructed.  I squeezed the trigger and then I was laying on my back on the porch.

 

I call it recoil.  Although I was never issued either, I had to familiarize with both the 50 and 60 caliber.  Unless you are one of the really big boys you fire those from the prone position with the barrel of the weapon on fold-out support.  Yeah, like the snipers.

 

In the video the guy should never brought the weapon up for aiming.  Pistol grip shot guns are for close range use and you direct the shot, not aim it.  Most people wouldn't be able to prevent the recoil, especially if it is a 12 gauge.

[Bud Jetsun]

Experienced the receiving end of a brass knuckle equipped fist pounding into my face and back of my head.

 

Messy experience, but hardly uncomfortable compared to the tedious work later in surgery getting random bits of skin like eyelids sown back in place.

 

Nothing I would choose to do to another living being, but if it had to happen to someone I'm grateful it was myself (learned a lot from it, including forgiveness lessons, came out of it with only minor vision damage).

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

Edited September 25, 2015 by Bud Jetsun

[Nungali]

Crikey ! 

[Michael Sternbach]

While in the Army the butt end of my M1 worked very well on friendly forces.

 

Why would you want to batter friendly forces?

[Marblehead]

Why would you want to batter friendly forces?

Because I needed to put an end to his constantly trying to fuck with me.  Words didn't work because he was bigger than I was and he thought his power ruled.

[Michael Sternbach]

Because I needed to put an end to his constantly trying to fuck with me.  Words didn't work because he was bigger than I was and he thought his power ruled.

 

Gotcha. Rough customs in the army, eh? I'm not sure what Sun Tzu would have to say about members of the same army bashing each other, although I suppose the phenomen already existed in his time.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, at close quarters as in the Army personalities will sometimes conflict.  Not much, if anything, is said if it is between two like ranking people.  And yes, human nature being what it is I'm sure stuff like that happened back then too.

[soaring crane]

I have a nice scar on my forehead as the result of a billiard cue being broken on it in a bar fight in 1983, at a rough place in Germany when I was stationed here with the army. It was very effective, stopped me in my tracks and caused the owner to set two very large dogs loose and call the MPs.

 

I have another scar on my back where I got stabbed with a broken beer bottle on a different occasion. A friend had to point out to me that there was blood pooling on my shirt or wouldn't have noticed.

 

So, pool stick effective, beer bottle less so. That's my only real world experience with fights involving weapons.

 

I've been training in Pektiti Tirsia Kali for a few months now and those sticks are most definitely effective and would be formidable to come up against if the person wielding them didn't have your best interests in mind.

[Nungali]

teacher said there were 3 levels of applying the technique in MSSR ,  rising in ' nastiness'

 

when your 'mates' try to best or bully you

 

in a self defense situation

 

when your family and home is threatened or invaded. 

 

regarding 'two sticks'   ( as in what Matsamura settled on and in kali )   Vs knife  

 

sticks I think 

 

[Ell]

I've only been in fights on the hockey rink. 

[Marblehead]

regarding 'two sticks'   ( as in what Matsamura settled on and in kali )   Vs knife  

 

sticks I think

Most people don't know how to use a knife properly.  But still, against a good stick the knife would be the underdog.

[leth]

I have very little experience with Sticks and Batons but they hurts a lot if you get hit in not so dangerous places, and are potentially very dangerous if you hit some voulnerable places. I imagine a steel pipe would be even worse. I have no reall experience with brass knuckels, but i've heard they can do som serious damage.

 

As for the discussion of sticks vs knife, knives are really dangerous both to wield and to face, i would much prefere to wield a stick, even against another knife. You can attack the knife hand, the head or other vital parts easier with the stick and try to keep a distance much easier, while still having the chance to take an opportunity to close in if needed. Knives are scary. A caveat is that I don't have very much expereince with knives.

[SonOfTheGods]

So I was wondering does anyone on here have any real world or sparring experience with impact weapons such as batons tonfas saps etc Or strike enhancers like brass knuckles kubotans etc?

 

Like how well do they work in a fight? Did they break? Did they hurt you more than the opponent? Etc? Any input is appreciated. 

 

Thanks

 

I broke the lamp in the living room with my nunchakus and blamed the dog.

 

My wife didn't believe me and showed me how to correctly use nunchakus by beating demonstrating with them on my noggin....

 

...so does that count any?

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, YES IT HURT (said the lamp)

Edited September 26, 2015 by SonOfTheGods

[Nungali]

I've only been in fights on the hockey rink. 

 

 

Well, one stick is better than none ... and you got some  armour  . 

[Nungali]

Most people don't know how to use a knife properly. But still, against a good stick the knife would be the underdog.

 

 

I always wondered what 'properly' was in this context ??? Sure, most people may not , after meeting 'most people' I would not be surprised if they cut themselves buttering bread,

 

But what is properly ? I have seen some old Philippino dudes doing awesome knife drills * ... I wouldnt doubt they can apply in a real situation.

 

I learnt the 'proper way' to use one - according to the etiquette of Japan ...

 

Current instructor (not Japanese ) is more realistic, he agrees with me, a knife in a fight - someone's gonna get cut .

 

Nearly all 'demos' are a drill so ....

 

I had a mate that did army training and a bit of Special Services training ( that he failed - he didnt get in - thats an amusing story ) and we were mucking around one day and he said they were trained to use a knife properly and defend against one. he could tell at a glance if someone knew how to use a knife ' properly ' or not.

 

I said okay, and shaped up to him (with a rubbery one ) and he immediately pointed out how I was doing it wrong ... so I continued doing it wrong and waving it at him and as he went to try one of his techniques as I feigned in .....

 

.... I kicked him in the nuts instead , did a little flippy foot sweep, closed in as he stumbled backwards, grabbed a flailing arm as he stumbled backwards and got two stabs in as went down ..... he didnt expect that .... he had been trained what to expect from watching the way I handled the knife ( but I intended to nut him from the beginning ) . .... then ...

 

" Okay, what was wrong with that then ? " He admitted I caught him by surprise.

 

Drills are excellent for training but you have to go beyond that ..... try some free form practice with a red marker pen, move around and be innovative.

 

Some knife fights I have watched ( on film ) can be quiet weird ( in 'technique' ) ... especially one on one with gang members, some , one assumes, would have some experience ( I mean knife fights not a 'knife attack' ) - here, 'properly' means 'dont get cut' even if it means wrapping your jacket around a lead defense arm and jumping in with an overhand axe blow and jumping back ... both doing the same over and over again ... until there is blood. .

 

Many years back as a teen I had a new friend that came from the Philippines .... n o MA background , but a bit of wrestling, one day he wanted to knife fight me ( a friendly ) his techniques was like a crab;, legs wide, very low down center of gravity hips back and shoulders forward - crouched, with the body and organs protected I suppose and the knife held out in front.

 

I did a Dave Brown workshop where he did some knife stuff .... meh ! I was tempted to 'show him; things dont always go as he was saying.

 

Its dangerous to teach people knife disarms ! They work great in drills.

 

But in a drill or a demo .... it all depends who 'attacks first' doesnt it ? Still, it ceratinly doesnt hurt to know the techniques, in case an opportunity to use them arises.

 

here is the opposite .... knife beats stick ( yeah, drills , but .... )

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

...........    @ 1.00    

 

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

I had to disarm, well, let's say "friendly forces"  attacking me by a knife or a screwdriver on a couple of occasions. A kote-gaeshi (supinating wristlock) from Aikido proved useful for that. However, it's quite tricky to grab the wrist of a really experienced knife fighter. Unless you are very skilful and/or have stunned them by a blow previously, chances are that they pull their hand out, and pull the knife right through yours on the way.

 

Kote-gaeshi:

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Marblehead]

I wanted to speak to this before reading further:

I said okay, and shaped up to him (with a rubbery one ) and he immediately pointed out how I was doing it wrong ... so I continued doing it wrong and waving it at him and as he went to try one of his techniques as I feigned in .....

.... I kicked him in the nuts instead , did a little flippy foot sweep, closed in as he stumbled backwards, grabbed a flailing arm as he stumbled backwards and got two stabs in as went down ..... he didnt expect that .... he had been trained what to expect from watching the way I handled the knife ( but I intended to nut him from the beginning ) . .... then ...

" Okay, what was wrong with that then ? " He admitted I caught him by surprise.
 

Yes,the leg is longer that the arm.  If at a distance and closing the leg/foot would be able to make first contact.

 

And I will agree, to win a fight is never wrong, regardless of the means used to win.

[Marblehead]

But in a drill or a demo .... it all depends who 'attacks first' doesnt it ? Still, it ceratinly doesnt hurt to know the techniques, in case an opportunity to use them arises.

 

here is the opposite .... knife beats stick ( yeah, drills , but .... )

 

Yeah, but the stick man was a two-way dummy.

 

First, he didn't even swing his stick with any authority and secondly he allowed the knife man to get within striking distance.