Preparation for Kan and Li?

[Perceiver]

Kan and Li (Fire and Water) is considered "the core" in the systems of both Mantak Chia and Michael Winn. What is the necessary level of preparation for this exercise?

 

I am asking since I started doing it a week ago. I only did it once, and I've had major insomnia since. I've got way too much energy and am sleeping 3-4 hrs per night. My ability to work is impacted. I'm thinking about whether I've done something wrong - not prepared adequately? I've just been training in Michael's system for two years on my own, and done the major exercises for about 2 months each, and then moved on. Maybe it's just my kundalini syndrome causing havoc, but I'm getting mowed down here.

 

Would be nice to hear people's experience with the preparation for this formula.

[liminal_luke]

I´m not sure what to say about your experience, but the preparation is the fusion practice. Have you done much fusion? If you´re having insomnia I´d go back to healing sounds, and see if that helps.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Kan and Li as concepts come from the book of changes and were discussed in depth in terms of meditation by Lu Dongbin a little more than 1000 years ago.

Lu Dongbin advised people to start from the root of Wu Wei and focus the attention on the dantian (lower abdomen area actually).  He said people should stay like this until the reach non action and then from that time, Kan and Li (actually, Kan symbolizes the Jing or essence of the body, while Li symbolizes the true mind) would mix naturally and of their own volition turn into Qi.

 

 

The fact of the matter is actually that anywhere in the torso under the heart that has a hollow in the deep body (solar plexus, lower dantian, qi xue point under the dantian) can be used to create the marriage of kan and li.

The most important point is that you have to attain non action and non thought first.  If you use concentration, or active use of breathing or intention in that area, you will damage yourself.

When you do internal alchemy, the very most important thing is to make the mind as calm and comfortable as possible.

Everything else is just micro adjustment in order to make sure things don't get too hot or too cold.

 

I don't know about the author you mentioned, since I have never read his book, but I urge that if you want to learn meditation from a Daoist perspective, the most valuable thing you can do is just sit back in a comfortable chair, breathe softly and place the mind lightly into the lower abdomen.  This is already a good enough basic to begin stirring the pre natal energy in the dan tian.

 

I have recently released a book that goes into some detail about how Kan and Li work in meditation, if you think it is worth your time, you can think about getting a copy.

http://www.tambulimedia.com/2015/08/22/yin-and-yang-in-daoist-meditation-practice/

here is an excerpt.

[Perceiver]

Thanks liminal Luke. I might give the healing sounds a try. Its crazy - its been a week now and this fucking energy wont stop. Mudderphucka..

[Horus]

Would be nice to hear people's experience with the preparation for this formula.

 

I have had similar experiences even in the prep work...until I started ending all my sessions with at least as much time in absolute stillness with no-mind.

[Antares]

Kan and Li (Fire and Water) is considered "the core" in the systems of both Mantak Chia and Michael Winn. What is the necessary level of preparation for this exercise?

 

I am asking since I started doing it a week ago. I only did it once, and I've had major insomnia since. I've got way too much energy and am sleeping 3-4 hrs per night. My ability to work is impacted. I'm thinking about whether I've done something wrong - not prepared adequately? I've just been training in Michael's system for two years on my own, and done the major exercises for about 2 months each, and then moved on. Maybe it's just my kundalini syndrome causing havoc, but I'm getting mowed down here.

 

Would be nice to hear people's experience with the preparation for this formula.

 

There is only one formula that can help in such the case - stop to practice anything taking methods from  books. Mantek Chia seems to be knowledgeable teacher but in fact he is not. He has no clue about neidan and his theories are his fantasies only. It is impossible to fuse Kan and Li by the way he describes in his books. Just because this is qigong of bad qualilty that can be harmful for health.   

Edited September 29, 2015 by Antares

[Antares]

Lu Dongbin advised people to start from the root of Wu Wei and focus the attention on the dantian (lower abdomen area actually).  He said people should stay like this until the reach non action and then from that time, Kan and Li (actually, Kan symbolizes the Jing or essence of the body, while Li symbolizes the true mind) would mix naturally and of their own volition turn into Qi.

 

In what text does he advise to concentrate on lower abdomen, can you quote it? What about preparatory methods before trying to fuse kan and li, where are they described?

 

You write about "root of wuwei" but in order to realize wu wei there are preparatory methods that are very important and can not be skipped.

[Daeluin]

From a simplistic perspective, when the conscious and subconscious merge, one can expect some sort of awareness to remain when one is sleeping. The more settled and still the internal energy systems / organ spirits are, the more one will be able to rest while sleeping. But if one's energy isn't able to find stillness, it will prevent one from getting proper rest. I've been through similar experiences, usually due to lack of stillness work, and then I find the energy has a mind of its own and is difficult to 'control.' Easy to do in this noisy world, where all the influences we are exposed to have their own tugs on our energy. So we always need to be working to refine what is unrefined, and settle what doesn't want to settle.

[Perceiver]

Interesting post daeluin, thanks. It has calmed down a bit now so im thinking of doing the exercise again in a few days. Might start with the five animals..

[Antares]

Insomnia can be caused by incorrect practice. One out of the possible reasons is that energy goes upward if one does breath exercises on the MCO circulation directing attention up and down. Energy can be stuck in the head. In general this is incorrect practice. I would stop doing this if you do it