Where exactly do you "put you tongue on palate" ?

[mizpulyn]

iam practicing MCO for first time and the instruction says:

PUT YOUR TONGUE ON PALATE BEHIND YOUR TEETH

that makes sense but i read some different and conflicting instructions on internet (suprisingly)

where exactly do YOU put the tongue on the palate ?

 

my palate is not curved evenly like you see on all anatomic pictures (they are just average diagrams), i made a "picture" of mine, it has a long straight portion behind teeth and than it prolapses deeply upwards - creating high dome...

 

<<PICTURE ATTACHED>>

strangely... i can sense that some parts of palate deeper in my mouth have mild sour/alkalic taste (like licking very mild or diluted lemon) when doing MCO... i remember i read somewhere (will try to find source) that this spot where you can sense the sour/alkalic taste is the right spot to touch your tongue... i dont know where i read it...

 

ARROW 1: this is where i guess most people place the tip because most instructions say "BEHIND YOUR TEETH" i dont feel ANYTHING here...

 

ARROW 2, 3, 4: these spots are where i can sense faint sour/alkalic/lemon taste when i do MCO... the spot shifts a bit one moment its more 2, couple of minutes later its more 3 or even 4

 

WHATS ALSO INTERESTING is that after a while of practicing MCO i can sense a bump or engorged tissue develops around spots 2,3,4... this bump dissipates couple minutes after stoping MCO...

<<PICTURE ATTACHED>>
 

[Chang]

Do not over intellectualize this matter.

 

Points 1 and 2 will probably allow the most comfort for the most people, whilst points 3 and 4 will place tension on the frenulum, thereby causing slight discomfort.

 

Discomfort will not in any way aid in the circulation of energy so my advice would be to keep things simple and straightforward.

 

There is a tendency to believe that the higher points on the palate will lead to improved results and this has even caused some practitioners to sever the frenulum. This is not a path that I would follow. Keep it simple and comfortable.

[Aeran]

Personally I use a point a little further back than #4, there's a kind of crease right at the roof of my palate which I rest the tip of my tongue on. That said, I was taught that #2 is also valid, the difference being that that connecting behind the teeth produces more yang energy, which connecting to the roof of the palate produces more yin energy. Being rather yin deficient, I stick with the roof.

 

I'd stick with whichever point is recommended by the specific set of instructions you're following, instead of confusing yourself with contradictory information on the internet.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Aeran

[soaring crane]

If you relax the jaw and the tongue (it's a muscle) it should "swell up" a bit and make the contact spontaneously, over a larger area.

 

Saliva should flow feely.

 

[mYTHmAKER]

ones tongue should rest on on roof of ones mouth at all times

with the exception of when you are speaking.

[vonkrankenhaus]

During chewing we touch the tongue to the roof of the mouth repeatedly.

 

We touch it at slightly different spots depending on many factors - what kind of food, at what point in chewing, how much liquid, and so forth.

 

We are transferring information, qi, released in breaking up the food, to our brain.

 

Brain will assess information and signal organs doing hormone and enzyme productions specific for that food.

 

Mouth is one connecting area of two major meridians - conception and governing.

 

Anus is the other connecting area - the other end of this process.

 

These two vessels connect in the entire ailementary tract.

 

Good way to study position of tongue in transfer of energy is chewing very very carefully and mindfully.

 

Chewing differnt kinds of foods to see what information is coming.

 

Maybe food is actually suffering animal - we can tell.

 

Maybe processed by machines - we can tell.

 

Chewing is happening in the right place to be applicable to this question of where to put tongue in meditation, because chewing is the early and best meditation. The basic place to start, and one of the very first noticeable things we do involving energy transfer with the environment..

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited October 1, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[Aetherous]

I'm of a differing opinion...only in practices that require the tongue to be raised should it be done. Or if your school of training tells you to do it all day long, then it's for their purpose. Otherwise, this is an unnatural thing that causes a certain effect in the body.

I think just behind the teeth, even touching the teeth slightly with the tip of the tongue, make the ren and du connect more. An idea: aim the tip of the tongue at DU-28. But if the tongue isn't up, it's not like the ren and du have no communication with one another. They always do. The tongue being further back stimulates the brain in various ways.

[Daeluin]

These things take time.

 

It is good to simply develop the habit of connecting the tongue to the roof of of the mouth at all times, where-ever is most comfortable.

[Daeluin]

I'm of a differing opinion...only in practices that require the tongue to be raised should it be done.

 

Hmmm, I guess I've read that babies do this naturally from birth. Which might indicate that we develop the trait of disconnecting the tongue from the roof of the mouth.

 

It is said that the tongue will come to express and leak out the energy of the organs, so perhaps keeping the connection helps to contain the organ qi.

 

I think this is also similar to the teeth, which when lightly connected complete a circuit of nerve endings, or something like that.

[imtyerd]

strangely... i can sense that some parts of palate deeper in my mouth have mild sour/alkalic taste (like licking very mild or diluted lemon) when doing MCO... i remember i read somewhere (will try to find source) that this spot where you can sense the sour/alkalic taste is the right spot to touch your tongue... i dont know where i read it...

 

I recently started practising as well and I taste the alkaline too.

 

I imagine that this is a sign that the MCO is opening up? Any input on this? 

Edited October 2, 2015 by imtyerd

[mYTHmAKER]

Experiment with tongue relaxed on the roof of your mouth

and with your tongue not touching

Feel the difference for yourself

[mizpulyn]

thanks guys for sharing your expertise

 

fair point - when i CONSCIOUSLY RELAX the tongue like a muscle, it swells - the tip naturally aligns and touches with ARROW 1 - that sounds natural...

 

to reach ARROW 2,3 i must bend the tongue just a little bit... to reach ARROW 4 i bend the tongue even more...

 

what interests me is that SOUR/ALKALINE/LEMONY taste i get on ARROW 2,3,4 and that little bump of ENGORGED TISSUE that develops in minutes around ARROW 2,3,4 when doing MCO... this bump dissipates several minutes after MCO... its either some accumulated BLOOD or LYMPH FLUID that make the palate swell in that area a little bit...

 

thats what got me thinking - the taste and the swelling... on ARROW 1 i dont get that at all...

 

ARROW 1 is completely inert and sense-less area...

 

ARROWS 2,3,4 seem to be active, juiced, responsive, dynamic - they respond to MCO (swelling and INCREASINGLY MORE LEMONY tasting)

 

I dont OVERINTELECTULISE iam just curious... if i can sense strong response on ARROW 2,3,4 and nothing on ARROW 1... i wonder, i ask, why is that, is that telling me something ?

Edited October 2, 2015 by mizpulyn

[Miffymog]

I loved VonKrankenhaus' interpretation of our initial experience of the external world being via the mouth and tongue. This is clearly true if you watch a new born baby, which Dealuin makes reference to. I also like VonKrankenhaus' interpretation of how your tongue 'analyses' what is in the mouth and conveys this information to the brain from the way it connects with the top of the mouth. My tongue is quite long and I can reach behind the soft pallet and touch the nasal cavity with ease (no need to cut the base of the tongue for me). Not sure if I am going to include this in my practice, as I almost feel be sick when I try it.

[dawei]

I'm a follower of tongue at point #1 24x7...  fire position.   And right for the MCO.

 

As Dr. Yang says, don't let it touch the teeth as that will make the body feel tired.

 

Another related thread:

http://thedaobums.com/topic/24056-microcosmic-orbit-tongue-position/

[Rara]

thanks guys for sharing your expertise

 

fair point - when i CONSCIOUSLY RELAX the tongue like a muscle, it swells - the tip naturally aligns and touches with ARROW 1 - that sounds natural...

 

to reach ARROW 2,3 i must bend the tongue just a little bit... to reach ARROW 4 i bend the tongue even more...

 

Yep, I remember this experiment.

 

2-4 always left me salivating and getting distracted trying not to choke.

 

I say go with the "consciously relax/point 1" deal.

[Horus]

The position of the tongue for the MCO (ie linking Du Mai & Ren Mai) is just behind the top front teeth (Fire Element Position).

 

The Earth Position is at the floor of the mouth, The Metal Position is right at the point where the upper and lower teeth meet, the Water position is at the back of the mouth toward the Uvula, and the Wood Position is on the Top of the palate ie about midway between the Fire and Water Positions.

 

So, if you take your tongue too far back on the palate, away from the tooth/gum line - you will move from Fire, to Wood.

 

The whole point of doing the Fire Position for MCO is linking Du Mai & Ren Mai into a continuous loop, a loop which circuits the qi to/past all of the major energy centers, glands, nadis, channels etc (a mirror of the solar cycle in the "celestial body" if you will).

 

The movement of qi flowing up the Du Mai and Down the Ren Mai is the Fire Cycle of the MCO, while the movement in reverse - up the Ren Mai and down the Du Mai is, inversely, the Water Cycle of the MCO.

 

[silent thunder]

I use position one.

 

edit to clarify:

 

For qi gong and walking, the tongue is placed in position one on the inhale and then drops to make contact with the lower teeth with the exhale.

 

For stillness work, it is placed in position one and the teeth touch lightly for the duration of the sitting.

Edited August 21, 2016 by silent thunder

[dwai]

These things take time.

 

It is good to simply develop the habit of connecting the tongue to the roof of of the mouth at all times, where-ever is most comfortable.

Connecting the tongue splits the energy into yin and yang. Disconnecting the tongue allows the energies to mix all over the body. Both are good. So both should be done. After cultivating, it makes sense to let the charged up energy mix and flow all over the body to balance things out.

[Spotless]

Where your tongue is at the end of saying the word "bite" (Just behind the teeth).

 

Quite natural and relaxed - and effective.

 

Generally with your teeth about as far apart as when you finish saying the word "bite" as well.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Spotless

[vrihlea]

iam practicing MCO for first time and the instruction says:

 

PUT YOUR TONGUE ON PALATE BEHIND YOUR TEETH

 

that makes sense but i read some different and conflicting instructions on internet (suprisingly)

 

where exactly do YOU put the tongue on the palate ?

 

my palate is not curved evenly like you see on all anatomic pictures (they are just average diagrams), i made a "picture" of mine, it has a long straight portion behind teeth and than it prolapses deeply upwards - creating high dome...

 

<<PICTURE ATTACHED>>

 

strangely... i can sense that some parts of palate deeper in my mouth have mild sour/alkalic taste (like licking very mild or diluted lemon) when doing MCO... i remember i read somewhere (will try to find source) that this spot where you can sense the sour/alkalic taste is the right spot to touch your tongue... i dont know where i read it...

 

ARROW 1: this is where i guess most people place the tip because most instructions say "BEHIND YOUR TEETH" i dont feel ANYTHING here...

 

ARROW 2, 3, 4: these spots are where i can sense faint sour/alkalic/lemon taste when i do MCO... the spot shifts a bit one moment its more 2, couple of minutes later its more 3 or even 4

 

WHATS ALSO INTERESTING is that after a while of practicing MCO i can sense a bump or engorged tissue develops around spots 2,3,4... this bump dissipates couple minutes after stoping MCO...

 

<<PICTURE ATTACHED>>

 

 

try making a clicking sound with your tongue, as relaxed as possible