Nihilism

[Marblehead]

41 minutes ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

Wow that blew my mind; that the way itself is nihilistic.. or nihilism plain as day..

But let's be careful to not attach the concept of self-destruction to the concept of nihilism as we are discussing it here.

 

Yes, I suppose that one could see poetry in the TTC.  The processes of the universe are poetry.  Therefore we could say that the processes of all things in the universe is poetry.

 

If we suggest that poetry is the expression of a thought-concept in the fewest amount of words possible then yes, the TTC is pure poetry.

 

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

But why is it poetry?

[Boundlesscostfairy]

So a good question is.. Is everything way? Or is only the perfect grace way, without mistakes? Or are the mistakes leading to higher expression?

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

But why is it poetry?

I can't speak to that.

 

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Boundlesscostfairy said:

So a good question is.. Is everything way? Or is only the perfect grace way, without mistakes? Or are the mistakes leading to higher expression?

This question has been asked many times.  I have changed my answer about five times.  This response might be another change.

 

I must first state my understanding of the word "Way", of "way".  "Way", with the cap "W" is the Way of Tao.  "way", with lower case "w" I call the way of man.  Question remaining is:  Aren't they both the same?  I frequently disagree with myself regarding that question.

 

"Way", IMO, is really Ziran (Tzujan).  The way the universe and all things function.  The processes of the universe.  In all fairness we must leave out the opinions of man (but not the "thoughts, words and deeds" of man).

 

So now we have the universe and all things doing what they naturally do without any value judgements from man.  Natural disasters happen resulting in the death and destruction of many lives and buildings, etc and all we can say is that it was nature's way.

 

A man kills, without just cause, another man and all we can say is that it was man's way.

 

Everything that happens has a or many causes.  Basically, cause and effect rule.  Cause and effect have ruled since the beginning of time.  This is the way of the universe.

 

Now enter the opinions of man.  We all have our own set of values so our opinions are going to vary.  We generally think about our self first.  "In what manner do I want to live my life?"  So we establish our set of values.  Then, in many or most cases whenever something touches our life we measure what happened against our values.  We call it good or bad.

 

This is the way our brain functions.  But it really has nothing to do with what happened.  What happened was simply the effect of some cause. 

 

So man makes up rules trying to control the way of the universe.  "Thou shall not kill."  But people are still being killed.  Why?  Cause and effect.

 

So yes, everything is way.  The good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly.  Man makes judgements - the universe does not.

 

[silent thunder]

Lately, I experience bouyancy in the meaninglessness.  Instead of binding me to despair, I'm wide open and flowing, unfolding in the freedom found only without imposed meanings.

 

There was a time, when I was deeply saturated in societal, familial and self created and projected meaning, that the hints of nihilistic truths brought only despair and knee-jerk fear rejections.  This though, revealed itself through realizations to be the despair of losing something familiar and comforting that was only comforting in its familiarity, not its inherent truth.

 

I am aware.  This is one of the few certainties that has not fallen away.  And as far as I have explored to now... Awareness has no meaning.  It is foundational and beneath meaning... or above it, depending how one wants to allocate that...

 

As experience continued in the face of meaninglessness... bouyancy and joy replaced despair as the realization came...  with the release of any notion of meaning, objective or subjective, space for bliss replaces prior projected meanings. 

 

True freedom.  Ultimate internal Anarchy.

 

[Marblehead]

I suggest that your experience is one of fulfilment.  You have experienced both sides; that of meaningfulness and then meaninglessness.

 

I think your experience is one of self-searching.  I would even call it true awareness.  

 

But while we are still alive some things still matter.  As you mentioned:  True freedom.  Ultimate internal Anarchy.

 

 

[Maddie]

I've been pondering lately and I feel like the version of Theravada I was taught was very nihilistic and noticed most of the monks teaching it looked depressed.