Where did you learn Microcosmic Orbit ? (Books, DVDs, schools, teachers)

[silent thunder]

I encountered it as a part of the intermediate level of Fire Hands from GM Zhou Ting-Jue.

[Toni]

On 13/10/2015 at 9:21 AM, Bearded Dragon said:

I'm not going to recommend anything. I'll just mention some points that work for me which you probably won't hear anywhere else.

 

1) Proper pelvic rotation is very important to open up the lower spine. Don't force it though. Add in a mental rotation from the front of your dantien up and around down to the tip of your tailbone. This starts the energy shooting up through your lower spine and it should be obvious if you have a moderate degree of sensitivity. I had originally rotated down from the front of the dantien through the perineum to the tip of the tailbone but the opposite works 100x better.

 

2) Get the lower part then jump to the upper. Raise up through the sides of the neck into the parts on either side of the occiput. Tilt your head slightly forward in order to open up the occiput where your neck joins your skull. You should really feel something coming up to the top of your head. Coming at it from both top and bottom tends to help with the more difficult part of opening the middle of the back.

 

3) Sink your chi into the ground. This is difficult because it's not obvious if you're doing it properly. I don't think of the orbit coming back down the front. I just relax everywhere. If you get this then you naturally feel energy pooling in your dantian without the needless practice of visualisation. Intent and visualisation aren't the same. Anyway, I sink all the way to the ground because I think it's more beneficial than just sinking to the dantian.

 

There are thousands of different ways to get it, all of which might work better at different levels. Gather as many tricks as you can and try them out. I get all mine from different martial arts people.

Can u explain how to open the occiput? I don't fully understand ur explanation

[Bearded Dragon]

16 hours ago, Toni said:

Can u explain how to open the occiput? I don't fully understand ur explanation

 

I have responded via PM but I'll re-post my answer in case anyone else needs further clarification.

...

 

I was talking about a physical opening here. When you tilt your head back you can feel a cutting off of both the energy channels and bloodflow. What I was recommending was tilting the head forward very slightly, and maybe tucking in the chin a bit, to create a physical lengthening (not through tension though). The area then feels more spacious, as if it's more of an open conduit. I can physically put my head in that position with a bit of muscle, then think about raising up energy and afterwards it's as if the energy is supporting the posture and I can let go of whatever muscle I was using to hold it there.

 

I was never referring to the occiput as a chakra point or anything, although I have heard others talk about that area as the part of the brain they feel is responsible for the intent power of internal martial arts.

 

Hope that clears it up a bit.

[blackturtlesnake]

Sorry for not following the prompt and recommending something I haven't tried yet, but Damo Mitchell recently released a 7 hour MCO lecture orbit completely free on his website, def worthwhile checking out

https://damomitchell.com/2020/03/23/microcosmic-orbit/

[Eduardo]

Since I was a child I have been meditating, my grandfather who was a Rosicrucian taught me many things, especially how to breathe deeply, calm the mind and meditate.
Just at the age of 44 I woke up to the microcosmic orbit and whenever I naturally meditate, a current of energy begins to travel the ren and du meridians, stopping at each energy point of traditional acupuncture, centers such as Baihui, Yintang and Ming Men.
Today my personal practice includes Zhineng Qigong, FPQ, SFQ, and Buddhist and Taoist meditation techniques.

[JohnC]

For clarity, SFQ's Microcosmic orbit they call the small universe, and does not move the energy down the ren channel.

It is how they avoid problems that people encounter via the MCO.

 

Master Lin speaks on, that it is his observation that the Ren channel moves up the body, and moving energy against this causes chi deviations. He also speaks on, that those that have success with the generic MCO, is because they use a channel an inch inside the ren channel.

 

I recently discovered this and it blew me away.

 

John

[Cleansox]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

For clarity, SFQ's Microcosmic orbit they call the small universe, and does not move the energy down the ren channel.

/... ... /

 those that have success with the generic MCO, is because they use a channel an inch inside the ren channel.

 

A teacher that has his foundations within internal alchemy. He has other details which helps you to avoid problems in the long run as well. 

[freeform]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

For clarity, SFQ's Microcosmic orbit they call the small universe, and does not move the energy down the ren channel.

It is how they avoid problems that people encounter via the MCO.

 

The reason people have issues with MCO practice is that they try to 'move energy'. It doesn't matter what channel.

 

Dig the trench correctly and the water will flow correctly of its own accord.

 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

 

The reason people have issues with MCO practice is that they try to 'move energy'. It doesn't matter what channel.

 

Dig the trench correctly and the water will flow correctly of its own accord.

 

Definitely a valid point, as I found out I had been practicing incorrectly after having done it for 8 months. The moving energy route seems to be prone to mistakes unless supervised, assisted, and clearly instructed.

 

And there are very accomplished students 'moving energy' in SFQ's system, Robert Peng's, and others. Xiao Yao taught them both, and was an affiliate of Yan Xin.

Edited September 3, 2020 by JohnC

[Master Logray]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

The reason people have issues with MCO practice is that they try to 'move energy'. It doesn't matter what channel.

 

Dig the trench correctly and the water will flow correctly of its own accord.

 

 

What do you think of people doing MCO without regular human guidance?

[freeform]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

And there are very accomplished students 'moving energy' in SFQ's system, Robert Peng's, and others. Xiao Yao taught them both, and was an affiliate of Yan Xin.

I know that SFQ uses visualisations. 
 

The deeper aspects of MCO simply can’t be accessed through visualisation or guided intention. Just as you can’t achieve samadhi by visualising or intending it.
 

Qi moving through the Ren and Du is not the Xiao Zhou Tian MCO (at least in the way my teacher teaches it).
 

In normal, healthy people Qi moves through these channels anyway.
 

Perhaps if you’re very unwell and your Qi is not flowing normally, I imagine you could probably smooth it out with breathing, using attention and visualisation and the teacher’s assistance.
 

But the full alchemical MCO (as Damo teaches it in his course) is a whole different thing altogether.

 

The vast majority wouldn’t be able to access the prenatal Jing or develop the jade fluid or anything like that with guided intention.

 

I imagine both Peng and Lin both know the real MCO, but they’re not likely to teach it in that way to the public.

 

It’s very common for genuine teachers to teach ‘simplified’ methods to the public. 

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

What do you think of people doing MCO without regular human guidance?

Actually it’s quite achievable.

What’s much harder without a teacher’s guidance is to learn and build the foundational stuff that sets you up to be able to achieve the MCO in the first place.

 

Jumping into this practice without a foundation is either useless or potentially dangerous.

[Master Logray]

19 hours ago, freeform said:

Actually it’s quite achievable.

What’s much harder without a teacher’s guidance is to learn and build the foundational stuff that sets you up to be able to achieve the MCO in the first place.

 

Jumping into this practice without a foundation is either useless or potentially dangerous.

 

Is it due to your school is more on the letting the Chi run its course style (dig trench metaphor)?   Those micro-management styles require more personal direct guidance?

[JohnC]

20 hours ago, freeform said:

I know that SFQ uses visualisations. 
 

The deeper aspects of MCO simply can’t be accessed through visualisation or guided intention. Just as you can’t achieve samadhi by visualising or intending it.
 

Qi moving through the Ren and Du is not the Xiao Zhou Tian MCO (at least in the way my teacher teaches it).
 

In normal, healthy people Qi moves through these channels anyway.
 

Perhaps if you’re very unwell and your Qi is not flowing normally, I imagine you could probably smooth it out with breathing, using attention and visualisation and the teacher’s assistance.
 

But the full alchemical MCO (as Damo teaches it in his course) is a whole different thing altogether.

 

The vast majority wouldn’t be able to access the prenatal Jing or develop the jade fluid or anything like that with guided intention.

 

I imagine both Peng and Lin both know the real MCO, but they’re not likely to teach it in that way to the public.

 

It’s very common for genuine teachers to teach ‘simplified’ methods to the public. 

 

Well, Master Lin recommends that you practice the small universe for the entirety of your energy work career, and that it is the engine of SFQG. In the practice you use visualization, and I think once developed, intent to pull in and move the energy along a recommended path and points. He strongly encourages that you use his recording as he provides sound to assist, and recommends that you call on his energy, and check in with your body and the chi around you as you set intent(ask chi for help) for your time of practice.

 

All of this has a very palpable impact on the practice.

 

He states that as you continue to practice it will develop you and in you.

I don't think there is some secret other teaching that he delivers that suddenly makes it more powerful later on.

 

In my experience it is clearly effective, although he does recommend for people starting out more active movements and standing/zhan zhuang first, into sitting.

 

His students are obviously accomplished(Jim Nance, Gadu, Jaci, etc).

 

But if you want to know more about how it works, you should ask him. He is pretty available, and if you call their organization or send them an email they will pass the question along.
 

[JohnC]

As an aside, I am aware of this perspective that seems dogmatic, that says 'move it with your mind and you mess stuff up.'

 

I think that group has a valid point.

Without proper and clear instruction you can do incorrect things, and if you have any level of development could mess things up. It seems. I am actually going to ask Master Lin about this.

 

Those that subscribe to this I've seen from systems that are very powerful where energy comes in after a set of movements and you are entrusted to that movement, to systems that focus in deep detail on the fascia with a very mechanical approach. All accomplished, with high quality students.

I'm also aware of systems, like SFQG, that are based on visualization, and moving the energy with the mind or intent, and they as well I've seen with very accomplished students and masters.

 

I've heard it said that there is the Northern China Taoist schools that focus on third eye development first, and Southern China Taoist schools that focus on lower dantien development first. Or different emphasis of the two.

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

I practiced SFQ for a while and I agree its very heavy into the visualisation.

 

I think what's different about SFQ's small universe, compared to ones that are generally considered unsafe like Mantak Chia's is that it is a sort of transmission practice. Chunyi Lin says visualise the acupoint and imagine "the universal energy mixed with master's energy radiating into that point".

 

So it always seem to me you were stimulating points along the path of the MCO rather than forcing the qi along a channel. Maybe with enough activation of those acupoints you are digging the trench, as free-form said, for the channel to open by itself. 

 

Could be totally wrong though. I only practiced spring forest for about six months or so, and didn't get very far.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[silent thunder]

Both systems I use interchangeably, alone and together, (from lineage holders Zhou Ting-Jue and Wang Liping) make use of visualization and very specific points within and without the body.

 

They were taught very specifically and that is how I've always used them.

 

I think something to keep in mind about the nature of this work, is that as it begins to engender change within us, this change is often far from pleasant.  If one engages with this work on the assumption that it will make one feel better (particularly in the first few years), then they're likely in for a surprise.

 

It was this way in my case.  When the shifts began to gain inertia, the changes wrought in my life and awareness were far from pleasant.  They were and still are, disorienting, uncomfortable, painful even.  Rooting out blockages, releasing traumas, realizing one's past misbehaviors. 

 

That we encounter unpleasantness when this work 'gets going' is not an indication to me that things are broken.  It's an indication that things are healing and this is often not a pleasant undertaking.  Then again, I did not learn any of my techniques from a book.  And this is only my experience of my practice(s).   This is not to say things can't go wrong in some cases.  But a call out from my experience that it can be downright hellish at times without being a deviation, rather, this is the process of trauma and blockage re-presenting for release.

 

The process of awakening for me over the last two and half years is far from a pleasant process, filled with bliss.  'The Work' for me has been one of intentional sung in the presence of extremes of discomfort and awakening.  A constant releasing of previous assumption and conditioning and fostering a perpetual unfolding through whatever arises without clinging, hampering or fighting.  (i still fail and run from some realizations).

 

As awareness opens blocked traumas and repressed energies, I experience the pain that wasn't able to be dealt with when the blockage formed, so as my toolbox expands through the practice and teachings, subconscious awareness realizes that these old packages of trauma may now be processed when before, i lacked the ability, or techniques to deal with it healthily, so it was stored as blockage and ill mannered illusory thinking. 

 

My path to awakening has been far from a ride of bliss and a perpetual meadow of unicorns, but not to be all doom and gloom, the fog is lifting, but it's not (for me) an overnight shift from illusion and blockage to thrumming blissful neutrality in the face of life.

 

It has been a steady relentless dissolution of assumptions, illusions and when possible a committed unfolding into arising blockages, memories and past traumas (some heretofore unknown). 

 

This is not to discount folks who experience sicknesses due to unbalanced practices, or encountering blockages so severe that working alone is untenable.  I just want to share my own experience that engaging in these practices is in my experience designed to do exactly what is unfolding in my case... bring to awareness the unpleasant, the blocked and the traumatic... and release it and finally be free of its influence...

 

and this is in fact... the work (at least in my case).

 

This, I suspect is why teachers with vast experience in these matters will often dissuade and shy potential students away from starting such work.  It is far more often unpleasant than blissful, in the opening phases.

 

disclaimer: (not trying to convince anyone of anything with this... just sharing what is pertinent to my own experiences, past and ongoing)...

Edited September 4, 2020 by silent thunder
expanded some notions for clarity, i hope.

[JohnC]

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

I think something to keep in mind about the nature of this work, is that as it begins to engender change within us, this change is often far from pleasant.  If one engages with this work on the assumption that it will make one feel better (particularly in the first few years), then they're likely in for a surprise.

 

My case as well.

 

Went really deep in meditation with small universe, and later that night had my first panic attack. Spent the rest of the year terrified I was dieing.

 

Talked with Master Lin on it, and he shared that I was working through past life trauma, and said 'Keep going, your doing great'.

 

John

[freeform]

6 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Is it due to your school is more on the letting the Chi run its course style (dig trench metaphor)?   Those micro-management styles require more personal direct guidance?

Micromanaging styles are like spinning plates. As soon as you stop spinning the plate drops.

 

Digging the trench is akin to setting a cause for a result to manifest. In this approach achieving the microcosmic orbit is a permanent thing. Your orbit carries on when you sleep for example.

[silent thunder]

Master Wang never taught the MCO directly, he taught methods that, looking back now mirror what @freeform describes as 'digging the trench'.  Water flows through the channels of least resistance without pushing or cajoling of any kind.  It follows its nature.

 

He downplayed any obsessive over interest or pursuing of the creation and establishment of the MCO through mental forcing, saying in effect, 'it will arise naturally of its own volition (tzujan) when conditions support it; so don't concern yourself with creating it, focus on the work. 

 

There is no need to seek or try to manufacture it, it's already occuring at whatever level the body and mind currently supports, and will become more robust as training foundations lay the proper framework for expansion.

[freeform]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

But if you want to know more about how it works, you should ask him. He is pretty available, and if you call their organization or send them an email they will pass the question along.

Thanks

 

But I already have teachers. And their approach is really quite different.
 

I don’t ‘practice’ the mco because it’s coursing through me as I type - it’s permanent now. At first it was very intense, but now it has normalised to a point that it’s usually just below my conscious awareness.
 

But as soon as I quieten down it becomes strongly apparent - and as I absorb into it, sweet viscous fluid starts to fill my mouth and a bright light starts to flash and then permeate every part of me. Other pretty drastic physiological and physical changes have recently taken place too. My nervous system works very differently now.

 

Despite several years of imagination based practice in my early Qigong days - nothing even remotely like this took place. Although I certainly felt sensations and had some experiences.

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Master Wang never taught the MCO directly, he taught methods that, looking back now mirror what @freeform describes as 'digging the trench'.  Water flows through the channels of least resistance without pushing or cajoling of any kind.  It follows its nature.

 

He downplayed any obsessive over interest or pursuing of the creation and establishment of the MCO through mental forcing, saying in effect, 'it will arise naturally of its own volition (tzujan) when conditions support it; so don't concern yourself with creating it, focus on the work. 

 

There is no need to seek or try to manufacture it, it's already occuring at whatever level the body and mind currently supports, and will become more robust as training foundations lay the proper framework for expansion.

That’s very much exactly how my teachers talk about it.
 

Although there is a stage where there was an emphasis on creating the conditions for it to arise of it’s own accord.

 

Actually pretty much everything is achieved in this way. Create the conditions and it will arise of its own accord.

 

Sometimes creating conditions is very hard work though  

[Vajra Fist]

9 minutes ago, freeform said:

Thanks

 

But I already have teachers. And their approach is really quite different.
 

I don’t ‘practice’ the mco because it’s coursing through me as I type - it’s permanent now. At first it was very intense, but now it has normalised to a point that it’s usually just below my conscious awareness.
 

But as soon as I quieten down it becomes strongly apparent - and as I absorb into it, sweet viscous fluid starts to fill my mouth and a bright light starts to flash and then permeate every part of me. Other pretty drastic physiological and physical changes have recently taken place too. My nervous system works very differently now.

 

Despite several years of imagination based practice in my early Qigong days - nothing even remotely like this took place. Although I certainly felt sensations and had some experiences.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, how many years of practice on your present path did it take to reach this point? 

 

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

That we encounter unpleasantness when this work 'gets going' is not an indication to me that things are broken.  It's an indication that things are healing and this is often not a pleasant undertaking.

 

I needed to hear this, thank you so much for sharing.

[silent thunder]

22 minutes ago, freeform said:

That’s very much exactly how my teachers talk about it.
 

Although there is a stage where there was an emphasis on creating the conditions for it to arise of it’s own accord.

 

Actually pretty much everything is achieved in this way. Create the conditions and it will arise of its own accord.

 

Sometimes creating conditions is very hard work though  

Well said!  As per your usual quality of sharing, this highlights the paradox of 'effort and allowance'.

It seems a dance of polarity, rather than an either/or endeavor to me lately.

[freeform]

8 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, how many years of practice on your present path did it take to reach this point? 

Probably all of it 😄 - including the mistakes, the restarts and the rest. I’ve been doing some sort of inner work for around 20yrs.

 

The MCO started of it’s own accord about 3yrs ago to an extent. Only recently have I focused on creating the specific causes for it to manifest fully as it is now. It took around 6 months. Although i was working on that concurrently to other training.