Where did you learn Microcosmic Orbit ? (Books, DVDs, schools, teachers)

[freeform]

4 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

the paradox of 'effort and allowance'

Wei Wu Wei  

[silent thunder]

I mistook a question as directed at me when it was meant for another.

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by silent thunder

[freeform]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I’ve been doing some sort of inner work for around 20yrs.

10 of those were at least somewhat misguided

 

But I learned from my mistakes.

Edited September 4, 2020 by freeform

[silent thunder]

5 minutes ago, freeform said:

Wei Wu Wei  

So much is conveyed in those three words...

A lifetime of pursuit and release, reaching and unfolding... simultaneously.

 

Reaching out with intent, then releasing and withdrawing to assimilate, synthesize and then... reaching out again.

 

paradoxical and life altering.

[markern]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

My nervous system works very differently now.

 

 

 

In what way(s)?

[freeform]

31 minutes ago, markern said:

 

In what way(s)?

In relation to stimulus-response. Pain for example doesn’t work in the same way as it did before.
 

There’s no automatic aversion to pain. I don’t recoil from pain stimuli (getting burnt for example). I imagine it’s a bit dangerous.

 

Similarly shock or fear stimuli don’t produce an automatic adrenal response or the normal jump I used to feel.

 

something that has been slowly increasing for a while - and is apparently connected with the opening of the du is that I no longer get tired.

 

As in I can feel my body getting worn out if I do too much intense exercise for example - but there’s no tiredness or sluggishness in the body or the mind. I no longer feel sleepy or drowsy either in the evening or early in the morning when I wake up.
 

It’s similar to some drug experiences I’ve had in the distant past, but without any of the rush or intensity. I feel normal, calm and relaxed - just no longer feel fatigued when I would normally be.

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Thanks

 

But I already have teachers. And their approach is really quite different.
 

I don’t ‘practice’ the mco because it’s coursing through me as I type - it’s permanent now. At first it was very intense, but now it has normalised to a point that it’s usually just below my conscious awareness.
 

But as soon as I quieten down it becomes strongly apparent - and as I absorb into it, sweet viscous fluid starts to fill my mouth and a bright light starts to flash and then permeate every part of me. Other pretty drastic physiological and physical changes have recently taken place too. My nervous system works very differently now.

 

A return to youthfulness is referred to in the classics, have you noticed this physically? 

 

2 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Despite several years of imagination based practice in my early Qigong days - nothing even remotely like this took place. Although I certainly felt sensations and had some experiences.

 

[anshino23]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

It’s similar to some drug experiences I’ve had in the distant past, but without any of the rush or intensity. I feel normal, calm and relaxed - just no longer feel fatigued when I would normally be.

 

As a pharmaceutical connoisseur and psychotropic experimenter, I'd be curious to hear which drug experiences you would be referring to here?

[Paradoxal]

While my case may be an outlier, I got into martial arts with the express purpose of getting into the internal arts. I started Wing Chun around four years ago, and was formally introduced to some of the neigong aspects last summer. I spontaneously opened the du channel alongside a kundalini awakening this summer, but did not open the ren at the same time. After a few weeks, the pressure built up in the head until I could no longer walk straight, and I was constantly losing focus to the point of blacking out. There were days where I could not safely drive, nor could I read or write well due to the pressure.

 

The issues there prompted a search into more in-depth knowledge on the internal arts, and led me to @virtue's post on dragon sickness. After finding that, I found out that I should have opened the MCO much sooner, and promptly began serious research into ways of opening the MCO. I eventually found Damo Mitchell's MCO course and began taking it. Within two weeks of starting the course, and before finishing all the exercises he had available for it, I got the MCO going passively.

 

The ren channel seems to still get stuck sometimes, and requires further work, but if I quiet the mind, I can immediately feel the warm flowing of energy through all eight extraordinary meridians. That said, it is still strongest in the du and the ren, and I can feel that I have much to improve on the quality of the orbit.

[freeform]

8 hours ago, Bindi said:

A return to youthfulness is referred to in the classics, have you noticed this physically? 

My body has changed shape in that I used to have quite a bit of muscle definition, but now shaped more like a baby 

 

Not a flattering look I have to say!

 

But if you look at a 2yr old, you’ll notice that they naturally have a very open du and Ren and an active ldt. Their skin is puffy and springy - what people call puppy fat. It’s actually the soft fascia type tissues (Huang) filling every space between the bone and the skin, between muscle fibres and organs etc. 
 

That has slowly been happening to my body.

 

Whether I look younger? I’m not sure. But I don’t think that’s what the classics were talking about. Although I have met a master that has ‘achieved’ Nei Dan - and they look kind of ageless. So maybe there’s something to that.

 

I think the vitality I feel is probably a sign of ‘returning to youthfulness’. When you see how much kids can run around and play without getting tired... That’s similar to what I have now - although maybe a bit more extreme because even if I stay awake all night (as I’ve needed to for certain practices) I just feel normal the next day and throughout - no dips in energy or focus. 
 

It’s quite a change - as I used to suffer from fatigue quite a lot.

Now I have to be very careful because I can’t use fatigue as the sign to slow down anymore.

Edited September 5, 2020 by freeform

[freeform]

8 hours ago, anshino23 said:

 

As a pharmaceutical connoisseur and psychotropic experimenter, I'd be curious to hear which drug experiences you would be referring to here?

 

Speed - or amphetamines basically. One of my least favourite drugs from back in the day! 

[anshino23]

32 minutes ago, freeform said:

Speed - or amphetamines basically. One of my least favourite drugs from back in the day! 

 

Haha, got it. Thanks. 

[markern]

10 hours ago, freeform said:

In relation to stimulus-response. Pain for example doesn’t work in the same way as it did before.
 

There’s no automatic aversion to pain. I don’t recoil from pain stimuli (getting burnt for example). I imagine it’s a bit dangerous.

 

Similarly shock or fear stimuli don’t produce an automatic adrenal response or the normal jump I used to feel.

 

something that has been slowly increasing for a while - and is apparently connected with the opening of the du is that I no longer get tired.

 

As in I can feel my body getting worn out if I do too much intense exercise for example - but there’s no tiredness or sluggishness in the body or the mind. I no longer feel sleepy or drowsy either in the evening or early in the morning when I wake up.
 

It’s similar to some drug experiences I’ve had in the distant past, but without any of the rush or intensity. I feel normal, calm and relaxed - just no longer feel fatigued when I would normally be.

Very interesting. Can't the lack of fear respons also be dangerous? Say if you where on a high cliff, in a dangerous neighbourhood etc.?



 

[freeform]

4 hours ago, markern said:

Very interesting. Can't the lack of fear respons also be dangerous? Say if you where on a high cliff, in a dangerous neighbourhood etc.?
 

Yes definitely. I’ve already had lots of small accidents.
 

This is quite a new development and I still need to get used to it.

[Satyalok]

Hey @freeform, it's inspiring to read your experiences opening the MCO! It can be deceiving when considering if it is open or not, as it takes so long for this accomplishment to manifest. When you were going through this process, did you have signs manifest like automatic breathing, contraction of pelvic floor muscles, spinal flexion/extension, or mudras? Also, in the manifestation of sweet viscous fluid, did you have stages prior where the jade fluid was lighter and not so sweet? I definitely feel the MCO going through stages of opening, but definitely not manifesting the fruits that you've achieved. I'm still trying to achieve longer sits, and it's quite painful in full lotus. I've been doing Wang Liping's basic foundation work, focusing on converting jing to qi.

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Satyalok said:

When you were going through this process, did you have signs manifest like automatic breathing, contraction of pelvic floor muscles, spinal flexion/extension, or mudras? Also, in the manifestation of sweet viscous fluid, did you have stages prior where the jade fluid was lighter and not so sweet?

Yeah - although the process of doing the work is quite linear, the manifestation of the fruits as you describe is a lot more organic.

 

I’ve had pretty much everything everything you describe 😄 But generally earlier in my training.

 

The Du opens quite readily to some extent quite quickly. If you’ve had some zifagong then your Du is somewhat open. There are different levels of openness.

 

My Du channel is pretty much the entirety of my back at the moment - not just a line.

 

The Ren is trickier. It doesn’t even feel like a channel in the same way as the Du. The Ren starts to open when you’re able to sink your Qi. And that’s much harder than people think.

 

I think the biggest prerequisites for me, was achieving ‘Dantien breathing’ - which is somewhat similar to reverse breathing but automatic and your Dantien sucks in Qi and squeezes it inwards by its own action.

 

The open Du helps generate Yang Qi, the open Ren helps to sink and consolidate the Qi and the Dantien breathing helps to over time ‘fill’ the Dantien with Qi. 
 

(Just to remind that this is not what I “do” - this is just what happens by itself as a result of my practices)
 

When the DT started to fill over a certain point, my practices became a lot stronger. I’d get strong electrical currents running through my body. Strong ‘magnetic’ type fields squeezing and expanding.

I think it was the fullness of the DT and also preparing for an alchemical process that kickstarted the microcosmic orbit. I wasn’t working on it intentionally.
 

It’s more recently that my teacher suggested I take time to take it further. It took time for it to develop fully and become automatic. 
 

On a retreat I managed to get the jade fluid. At first it was not nice - tasted like metal. By the end of the retreat it started to taste like mild mango flavour. In the latest retreat it tasted very strongly sweet and felt viscous. (It tastes that way to my partner too (had to try 😄))

 

Now it sometimes arises of it’s own accord when I sit and absorb into the mco. 

[thelerner]

In my early years of doing the MCO, I realized more of a 'sensation' mantra then building the actual MCO.  ie feeling a sensation of the movement without the actual powerful flow. <stating that as an example of not having the MCO going>  I got a better taste of it working with Spotless advice, spending more time breathing into centers.

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

On 04/09/2020 at 8:43 PM, silent thunder said:

I mistook a question as directed at me when it was meant for another.

 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed your answer, you're very lucky to have encountered such great teachers. Thanks for sharing

Edited September 5, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[Bindi]

16 hours ago, freeform said:

My body has changed shape in that I used to have quite a bit of muscle definition, but now shaped more like a baby 

 

Not a flattering look I have to say!

 

But if you look at a 2yr old, you’ll notice that they naturally have a very open du and Ren and an active ldt. Their skin is puffy and springy - what people call puppy fat. It’s actually the soft fascia type tissues (Huang) filling every space between the bone and the skin, between muscle fibres and organs etc. 
 

That has slowly been happening to my body.

 

Whether I look younger? I’m not sure. But I don’t think that’s what the classics were talking about. Although I have met a master that has ‘achieved’ Nei Dan - and they look kind of ageless. So maybe there’s something to that.
 

 

What does ‘achieved Nei Dan’ mean? 

 

16 hours ago, freeform said:

 

I think the vitality I feel is probably a sign of ‘returning to youthfulness’. When you see how much kids can run around and play without getting tired... That’s similar to what I have now - although maybe a bit more extreme because even if I stay awake all night (as I’ve needed to for certain practices) I just feel normal the next day and throughout - no dips in energy or focus. 
 

It’s quite a change - as I used to suffer from fatigue quite a lot.

Now I have to be very careful because I can’t use fatigue as the sign to slow down anymore.

 

[anshino23]

6 hours ago, Bindi said:

What does ‘achieved Nei Dan’ mean? 

 

I assume he's referring to the attainment of the Elixir / Dan. The Dan, the golden elixir pill is made of the condensed substances or "ingredients" of one's congenital nature. Internal alchemy uses the underlying substances of Ming, Xing and Yuan Xi ("original breath").  This is then condensed and brought together which creates the Elixir Pill or the Dan.  After that, if I recall correctly, one forms the Golden Embryo. Next, after enough time, the consolidates spirits are condensed and the immortal fetus is ready to exit the body. At that point you've attained authentic immortality.

 

All of these remaining steps usually happens in retreat and away from society in my understanding. 

 

[freeform]

14 hours ago, Bindi said:

What does ‘achieved Nei Dan’ mean?

I rather not get onto that subject if you don’t mind.

[markern]

On 4.9.2020 at 11:13 PM, freeform said:

In relation to stimulus-response. Pain for example doesn’t work in the same way as it did before.
 

There’s no automatic aversion to pain. I don’t recoil from pain stimuli (getting burnt for example). I imagine it’s a bit dangerous.

 

Similarly shock or fear stimuli don’t produce an automatic adrenal response or the normal jump I used to feel.

 

something that has been slowly increasing for a while - and is apparently connected with the opening of the du is that I no longer get tired.

 

As in I can feel my body getting worn out if I do too much intense exercise for example - but there’s no tiredness or sluggishness in the body or the mind. I no longer feel sleepy or drowsy either in the evening or early in the morning when I wake up.
 

It’s similar to some drug experiences I’ve had in the distant past, but without any of the rush or intensity. I feel normal, calm and relaxed - just no longer feel fatigued when I would normally be.

Does the amount of sleep needed (on average) stay the same or is the need diminished?

[Paradoxal]

34 minutes ago, markern said:

Does the amount of sleep needed (on average) stay the same or is the need diminished?

I realize that you are asking Freeform, but I'll offer my experiences as supplement to whatever he says. When I got the du and ren flowing, my required sleep went from 10-13 hours on average to 7-9 hours on average. This is without an alarm clock, and I generally will not exactly feel tired before sleeping, rather, I will feel that it's "time to sleep", and thus go to sleep. I assume the gains would be even greater for someone of normal or above average health, but that is simply my assumptions. 

[markern]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

I realize that you are asking Freeform, but I'll offer my experiences as supplement to whatever he says. When I got the du and ren flowing, my required sleep went from 10-13 hours on average to 7-9 hours on average. This is without an alarm clock, and I generally will not exactly feel tired before sleeping, rather, I will feel that it's "time to sleep", and thus go to sleep. I assume the gains would be even greater for someone of normal or above average health, but that is simply my assumptions. 

10-13 hours is a lot. Did you have some health problems before making you need that much sleep or do some people just need that much?

[Paradoxal]

7 minutes ago, markern said:

10-13 hours is a lot. Did you have some health problems before making you need that much sleep or do some people just need that much?

I spent the first twenty years of my life on a heavy cocktail of psychiatric medicine. The doctors never allowed me to go off it, even after it practically killed both liver and kidney function. I ended up weaning myself off, as I could feel it slowly killing me. Generally speaking, I am much healthier than I was a year ago, but I have always had issues in the lungs, heart, liver, intestines, and kidneys. 

 

Having said that, I will also acknowledge that psychiatric medicine can be a great help to some. It functions as a wonderful bandaid for symptoms, but will rarely actually fix the underlying problem.