Where did you learn Microcosmic Orbit ? (Books, DVDs, schools, teachers)

[markern]

3 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

I spent the first twenty years of my life on a heavy cocktail of psychiatric medicine. The doctors never allowed me to go off it, even after it practically killed both liver and kidney function. I ended up weaning myself off, as I could feel it slowly killing me. Generally speaking, I am much healthier than I was a year ago, but I have always had issues in the lungs, heart, liver, intestines, and kidneys. 

 

Having said that, I will also acknowledge that psychiatric medicine can be a great help to some. It functions as a wonderful bandaid for symptoms, but will rarely actually fix the underlying problem. 

I see. Good to hear you have gotten as far as you have in healing things:)

[freeform]

15 hours ago, markern said:

Does the amount of sleep needed (on average) stay the same or is the need diminished?

 

While I can stay up without getting tired, I still need a regular amount of sleep to be replenished - especially as I'm doing pretty intense training. I have to be careful now because I have to be mindful of much subtler signs than tiredness that I need more rest.

[freeform]

On 05/09/2020 at 7:44 AM, freeform said:

My body has changed shape in that I used to have quite a bit of muscle definition, but now shaped more like a baby

 

Don't get into the internal arts if you don't want to look like a big baby!

 

 

Although you can always style it out with a cool pair of shades and a fetching hat!

[markern]

16 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by markern

[freeform]

14 hours ago, markern said:

 

 

I missed this one!

 

I'm hoping it was something along the lines of - "maybe he's just fat"... and then you felt it was a bit rude and deleted.

 

Yang Chengfu was definitely fat

 

I don't think it's rude.

 

He's known to have been addicted to food.

 

But if you look at any of the more contemporary internal arts teachers in better shape (who've managed to develop Peng... or are 'full' in neigong terminology) - Their body has a babyish quality. Particularly in how the shoulders sit and how the back works... also in the soft puffiness under the skin:

 

 

[markern]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

I missed this one!

 

I'm hoping it was something along the lines of - "maybe he's just fat"... and then you felt it was a bit rude and deleted.

 

Yang Chengfu was definitely fat

 

I don't think it's rude.

 

He's known to have been addicted to food.

 

But if you look at any of the more contemporary internal arts teachers in better shape (who've managed to develop Peng... or are 'full' in neigong terminology) - Their body has a babyish quality. Particularly in how the shoulders sit and how the back works... also in the soft puffiness under the skin:

 

 

Well, I wrote teacher A does look kinda puffy and baby like and teacher B a bit also. But Wang Liping and Nathan Brine (who he has certified to teach don't so maybe there is still hope I can keep my muscle definition and avoid looking like a baby. Or something like that. The problem was that teacher A and B are western teachers that may show up here so I thought it rude. In my mind I kinda treated them like I would when we are discussing all these teachers that live in China or are dead and then I would just be blunt about it. But I don't want to do that with those who may show up here. 

I did think to myself "he is just fat" haha. And I could have written that no problem. As long as its someone dead or that would never come here. 

The shoulders too?!! Argh. To be perfectly honest this is stressing me out a bit. I used to be very happy with my body. Then I got a fat belly because I was prevented from exercising and my sugar intake became insane. After I became able to exercise again I have exercised diligently and cut sugar drastically. The belly is soon entirely gone and muscle definition is coming back and then doing something good for me like Nei Gong is going to make me look like a chubby baby AND mess up my shoulders?!! My shoulders are the part of my body I am most happy with. They are broad and exactly like I want them. And then they get messed up too. I thought this art was supposed to make one more attractive

Edited September 8, 2020 by markern

[Earl Grey]

30 minutes ago, markern said:

The belly is soon entirely gone and muscle definition is coming back and then doing something good for me like Nei Gong is going to make me look like a chubby baby AND mess up my shoulders?!! My shoulders are the part of my body I am most happy with. They are broad and exactly like I want them. And then they get messed up too. I thought this art was supposed to make one more attractive

 

What constitutes being attractive can vary, but it seems you want the body of Charles Atlas. 

[freeform]

54 minutes ago, markern said:

Nei Gong is going to make me look like a chubby baby

 

 

Well in all honesty the chubby baby thing was a bit tongue-in-cheek. You certainly don't need to be chubby (I'm not) - but similarly you won't look 'ripped' - because that sort of body shape is in direct opposition to the qigong body.

 

The big chest, big shoulders thing we tend to like in the west is also not right for internal work.

 

The shoulders should be 'sat' comfortably - the shoulder blades shouldn't be protruding, the chest isn't puffed up. Your back should be broad, relaxed, with no deep grooves or protruding vertebra. Your abdominal area is strong, elasticated but not (necessarily) protruding. Wide feet and legs like tree trunks

 

As the inner fascia web grows and gains density, your skin starts to look soft and relaxed (not taught and clinging), but you look solid and dense on the inside. The grooves and valleys in between bones and muscles are filled - ie you might be slim but you shouldn't be able to see the ribs or the spine or the separation between each of the 'packs' in your abdominal muscles.

 

This is not a body you build to look attractive!

 

It's not even a body you build because it's 'good for you'. It's the body you get as a result of deep, prolonged practice in the internal arts.

[Earl Grey]

16 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

 

Well in all honesty the chubby baby thing was a bit tongue-in-cheek. You certainly don't need to be chubby (I'm not) - but similarly you won't look 'ripped' - because that sort of body shape is in direct opposition to the qigong body.

 

The big chest, big shoulders thing we tend to like in the west is also not right for internal work.

 

The shoulders should be 'sat' comfortably - the shoulder blades shouldn't be protruding, the chest isn't puffed up. Your back should be broad, relaxed, with no deep grooves or protruding vertebra. Your abdominal area is strong, elasticated but not (necessarily) protruding. Wide feet and legs like tree trunks

 

As the inner fascia web grows and gains density, your skin starts to look soft and relaxed (not taught and clinging), but you look solid and dense on the inside. The grooves and valleys in between bones and muscles are filled - ie you might be slim but you shouldn't be able to see the ribs or the spine or the separation between each of the 'packs' in your abdominal muscles.

 

This is not a body you build to look attractive!

 

It's not even a body you build because it's 'good for you'. It's the body you get as a result of deep, prolonged practice in the internal arts.

 

This is the point of my Xin Yi foundational beginners program: it assumes zero fitness and is modeled after the Charles Atlas and Charles Bronson programs to develop basic fitness and discipline for internal training to create routines before formally studying Xin Yi.

 

Eventually, you barely do the strength training as the Zhan Zhuang and shili exercises help you develop power as opposed to strength. 

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

develop basic fitness and discipline for internal training to create routines before formally studying Xin Yi

Yup - the best internal martial arts teachers I’ve come across always practiced some ‘external’ MA like Shaolin Kung fu or white crane... And these always involve a lot of strength and conditioning drills.

[senseless virtue]

5 hours ago, markern said:

Nei Gong is going to make me look like a chubby

 

I'm not big boned, it's just that I have achieved Neigong! 

[senseless virtue]

4 hours ago, ऋषि said:

bullshit

 

What exactly is your contribution to this discussion?

[Vajra Fist]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Yup - the best internal martial arts teachers I’ve come across always practiced some ‘external’ MA like Shaolin Kung fu or white crane... And these always involve a lot of strength and conditioning drills.

 

I think Damo said he still does basic gongfu drills, mostly for general physical fitness and health. His course has some pretty decent foundation movements.

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

I think Damo said he still does basic gongfu drills, mostly for general physical fitness and health. His course has some pretty decent foundation movements.

That kind of stuff is good fun too. Might consider giving Damo’s program a go.

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, virtue said:

 

What exactly is your contribution to this discussion?

Oh, that was just someone who decided to tell another bum off in two separate threads. Call it spill-over. 

[senseless virtue]

2 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Call it spill-over. 

 

But I thought we all were retaining the seed around here!?

[Creation]

37 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

I think Damo said he still does basic gongfu drills, mostly for general physical fitness and health. His course has some pretty decent foundation movements.

They also just added some lessons with his wife on mobility, stretching, body weight exercises, animal walks - highly recommended. 

[liminal_luke]

Is the consensus here that Damo is presenting good stuff?  Intrigued by his free microcosmic course, I went to his page and ended up getting sidetracked by a Yi Jin JIng video.  In the video he says that the Yi JIn JIng isn´t a set of exercises but rather a set of principles.  Well, OK....I think I remember @freeform stating something similar.  Damo poo-poos the idea that the Yi Jin JIng could be an exercise set saying that the forms that exist do little more than stretch the tendons.  At this point I felt myself getting disillusioned and discouraged: I learned Yi JIn JIng as an exercise set online with Robert Peng, and, although my experience is still quite limited, I´ve found it very valuable.  

[freeform]

31 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Yi Jin JIng could be an exercise set

There are hundreds of YJJ exercise sets. The Chinese government have come up with their own standardised sets too.

 

In general these are just gentle stretching routines, yes. 
 

But stretching is great!

 

The reason there could be hundreds of sets claiming to be YJJ is because YJJ  is not really a set of exercises, but a certain attainment that can be achieved through many different exercises. 
 

I’ve been taught “YJJ” by many teachers. But only a couple showed what it really is - and only after being accepted into a closed group.
 

Even a very accomplished teacher from the Shaolin tradition said that the real methods are never taught any longer (except behind closed doors within certain groups) - it’s all extremely secretive in Asia. People have become multi millionaires from developing Qi emission skills through the use of YJJ (primarily). It’s a very closely guarded secret.

 

I can tell you that much of my own development that I described has been due to correct use of the YJJ principles. 
 

I’m sure Robert Peng knows the genuine YJJ - because the Yang Qi emission (the electric shocks he’s famed for) is developed through YJJ.
 

I doubt he teaches the real thing online though... I remember you talking about use of visualisation and tensing/squeezing - that screams of ‘simplified for westerners’ type of crap I’m afraid.

 

Maybe he has students that can do it? I haven’t heard of that being the case.
 

But Peng certainly uses the skill to heal the upper echelons of society though - heads of state and all kinds of celebrities  

[Creation]

49 minutes ago, freeform said:

I doubt he teaches the real thing online though... I remember you talking about use of visualisation and tensing/squeezing - that screams of ‘simplified for westerners’ type of crap I’m afraid.

As far as I can tell, there are degrees of "simplified for mass consumption."  I imagine Peng's version has more power than the  standardized PRC stuff, even if it's not the full indoor teaching.

[freeform]

12 minutes ago, Creation said:

As far as I can tell, there are degrees of "simplified for mass consumption."  I imagine Peng's version has more power than the  standardized PRC stuff, even if it's not the full indoor teaching.

Oh yes - I’m sure that’s true. He certainly has the real skill.
 

The PRC considers Qi to be breath these days

[anshino23]

8 hours ago, freeform said:

The shoulders should be 'sat' comfortably - the shoulder blades shouldn't be protruding, the chest isn't puffed up. Your back should be broad, relaxed, with no deep grooves or protruding vertebra. Your abdominal area is strong, elasticated but not (necessarily) protruding. Wide feet and legs like tree trunks

 

As the inner fascia web grows and gains density, your skin starts to look soft and relaxed (not taught and clinging), but you look solid and dense on the inside. The grooves and valleys in between bones and muscles are filled - ie you might be slim but you shouldn't be able to see the ribs or the spine or the separation between each of the 'packs' in your abdominal muscles.

 

Does this mean that when the 'spaces' between the bones become filled with Qi, the back no longer "snaps" and "pops" and "cracks"? I can't believe I'm 28 and my back cracks and pops so much when doing my internal training and during stretching. But then again my shoulders crunch when pulling them back and when squatting my knees squeak a bit. It's kinda nuts - like the whole system lacks lubrication. Western medicine says it's not an issue as long as there's no pain - but I don't remember kids nor having "crunchy" or cracking joints when I was a kid myself. 

 

I'm not sure if iit's the case -- but I imagine if the YJJ process is gone through it would change that? 

[freeform]

14 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

I can't believe I'm 28 and my back cracks and pops so much when doing my internal training and during stretching.

That’s normal. Your joints are opening up and getting more space.

This is an earlier internal process than the YJJ. But a prerequisite.

 

They’ll pop less eventually. There’s nothing wrong with it  

[anshino23]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

That’s normal. Your joints are opening up and getting more space.

This is an earlier internal process than the YJJ. But a prerequisite.

 

They’ll pop less eventually. There’s nothing wrong with it  

 

Sweet, that's good to hear. Thanks  

[Sketch]

Years ago I  read Mantak Chia's description in several books and practiced "Imaginary " orbit every once in a while, as one would.

After starting a regular Zhan Zhuang practice - an extension of a pre existing seated practice I continue as a seperate thing, last year, I started reading Damo Mitchell's "A Comprehensive GuideTo Daoist Nei Gong" . I also read a book by Scott Meredith, his "5G Tai Chi", and that got things moving. The observed movement had me getting Mantak Chia's books out to look at the diagrams, I've also been reading "everything I can get my hands on" as I get my hands on it. 

    I have also been prowling these forums (first among other googleables) for tips and pointers, of course.