The Term Enlightenment

[mYTHmAKER]

Perhaps the enlightened people don't come forward and say they are enlightened

because they have no idea that they are.

They are just living and being.

The thought I am enlightened is not compatable with being enlightened.

Similarly when one is in meditation one experiences meditation as soon as you think

wow this is a great meditation you lose the state.

[beancurdturtle]

Practice like you have the word 'Death' pasted on your forehead.. it can come at any time,...until it does, cultivate.

Recently through the magic of peripheral vascular intervention surgery, it was confirmed that I had a 99% blockage in one coronary artery, a 70% blockage in another, and a 60% blockage in the third. There are only 3.

 

The 99% blockage was fixed. The other 2 are left to ferment.

 

Talk about "BOOM."

 

Things are much more simple now.

Edited November 2, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[xenolith]

...are you enlightened and or lonely?

or intensely romantic? looking for your enlightened perfect match?

Yes, no, yes, no.

you too be well.

Thank you.

[林愛偉]

Perhaps the enlightened people don't come forward and say they are enlightened

because they have no idea that they are.

They are just living and being.

The thought I am enlightened is not compatable with being enlightened.

Similarly when one is in meditation one experiences meditation as soon as you think

wow this is a great meditation you lose the state.

 

 

There is an obvious difference in mind, so the change is noticeable, but the thought, and the feelings of an "I" being enlightened are just not present. Such a distinction would be simply to recognize that there was an "I" and "now" there is "none".

 

 

Peace,

Lin

[xenolith]

We're all enlightened. It's but the absence of recognition of such that renders us unenlightened. The ego is that which renders us so. It's the stripping away of one's ego, that which is born when we are, that grows with us and that many believe IS us, that encumbers one from discovering one's enlightenment. Harder said then done. It can be done. Long contemplative periods are a prerequisite as far as anyone can tell. For men, a short cut exists. A short cut after approximately 10 years of devoted practice. Distillation of jing to chi and opening of the crown center. I'd like to think that women have access to this way. I've not learned of such. In any case, the result of the great straight upward path is to short-circuit the sympathetic nervous system resulting in a state of awareness devoid of those systems served by the sympathetic nervous system, such as the cerebral cortex, thereby instantaneously removing ALL that constitutes one's learned (i.e frontal lobe, socialization, etc.) neural pathways, IOW, one's ego. The result of this instantaneous awareness of one's self devoid of one's ego is astonishing in a way that is more profound than can be conveyed in words. Awareness of every life form that one's cells have occupied. Awareness of the sameness with them. Awareness of the tremendous energy contained within the current form. Awareness of the import of using it in a controlled manner. The awareness of the majesty of the Tao is beyond my ability to describe. Nonetheless...

 

So much more to say, yet so much more even to do.

 

Be well along your path.

 

xeno

[rain]

We're all enlightened.

 

I'd like to think that women have access to this way.

 

I've not learned of such.

 

Awareness of every life form that one's cells have occupied. (AHA!! ???? (SO much metal You are just SWEET).

 

Awareness of the sameness with them.

 

So much more to say, yet so much more even to do.

 

Be well along your path.

 

xeno

 

 

Straddle along handsome..

Edited November 2, 2007 by rain

[sheng zhen]

reading this thread reminds me of an observing an archery contest where the archers all have to shoot at the same target

 

some people miss

 

some people hit off center

 

some hit the outer rings

 

some hit the bull's eye

 

some split the arrows already in the bull's eye

 

the secret of enlightenment is that there is not just one.

 

 

There is also a Zen story about the seven blind but wise men who came upon an elephant.

Ther first felt the tail and said; this elephand seems a lot like a rope to me.

The other felt the stomach and sait; no no, this elephant must ba a wall.

The next felt the trunk and said; you all must be wrong! this elefant is more like a snake!

And so forth...

At the end they all went around the world and got a lot of followers. One group believing an elephant is a rope, the other a wall, and so forth.

 

One funny thing is that we all believe that we have the correct perspective, no matter what level we are at. An other funny thing is that no matter what level we are at, there is a next level to grow into. This means that no matter what we believe, we will some day grow into an other level where our former beliefsystems dont make sense anymore.

 

But in the meantime it is fun to exchange opinions

[rain]

quote zheng zhen;

"One funny thing is that we all believe that we have the correct perspective, no matter what level we are at. "

 

----------------------------------------

do we?

i most certainly don't

 

im just "confused in the supermarket."

Edited November 2, 2007 by rain

[sheng zhen]

 

do we?

i most certainly don't

 

im just "confused in the supermarket."

 

Youre right. It aint nessecarily so...

[beancurdturtle]

quote zheng zhen;

"One funny thing is that we all believe that we have the correct perspective, no matter what level we are at. "

 

----------------------------------------

do we?

i most certainly don't

 

im just "confused in the supermarket."

Then you need to find a Taoist Carl's Jr.

[rain]

........

Edited April 18, 2008 by rain

[lockpaw]

There is also a Zen story about the seven blind but wise men who came upon an elephant.

 

No, no, the correct version is an Indian story!

[林愛偉]

No, no, the correct version is an Indian story!

 

 

Amitabha...

 

Zen=Chan=Dhyana

 

It, Zen/Chan/Dhyana, originally was brought to India and transmitted by Shakyamuni Buddha, to Arya Mahakasyapa through several patriarchs down to Bodhidharma, then to China, to the 6th Patriarch in China, and from there, in between or after the 6th Patriarch, to Japan.

 

 

Peace and Blessings fellow cultivator!

 

Lin

[sean]

Interesting podcast regarding the question of whether to discuss attainments of enlightenment or not.

 

Enlightened Teachers

 

"In our latest podcast with Theravada teacher Daniel Ingram he breaches the taboo of enlightenment by discussing the enlightenment of other teachers. Not only that but he argues for a more transparent approach to enlightenment within certain teaching circles, in hopes that enlightenment can become more attainable. Listen and see why he thinks this will help."

[minusmode]

Interesting podcast regarding the question of whether to discuss attainments of enlightenment or not.

 

Enlightened Teachers

 

"In our latest podcast with Theravada teacher Daniel Ingram he breaches the taboo of enlightenment by discussing the enlightenment of other teachers. Not only that but he argues for a more transparent approach to enlightenment within certain teaching circles, in hopes that enlightenment can become more attainable. Listen and see why he thinks this will help."

 

Good stuff! Thank you! Reality can be so refreshing in a world where everything gets so over-marketed! I agree that it's the

over-pedistalized models more than anything else that make it such a difficult, and, in a way, dangerous subject to discuss. It might pop peoples balloons to hear that, enlightened or not, a person still has to be a human being, but the helium is bound to go out of them sooner or later anyway. The balloons I mean.

Edited December 3, 2007 by minusmode

[Wayfarer64]

Amitabha...

 

Zen=Chan=Dhyana

 

It, Zen/Chan/Dhyana, originally was brought to India and transmitted by Shakyamuni Buddha, to Arya Mahakasyapa through several patriarchs down to Bodhidharma, then to China, to the 6th Patriarch in China, and from there, in between or after the 6th Patriarch, to Japan.

 

 

Peace and Blessings fellow cultivator!

 

Lin

 

Not everyone believes this chronological take- for some There were both Taoist and Buddhist monks in China before the man known as Boddidarma arrived and organized the efforts of the Buddhists to spread Buddhist Doctrain...

[sean]

Good stuff! Thank you! Reality can be so refreshing in a world where everything gets so over-marketed! I agree that it's the

over-pedistalized models more than anything else that make it such a difficult, and, in a way, dangerous subject to discuss. It might pop peoples balloons to hear that, enlightened or not, a person still has to be a human being, but the helium is bound to go out of them sooner or later anyway. The balloons I mean.

Glad you enjoyed it. Daniel Ingram has a really wonderful and completely free ebook called Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha that I just finished reading, highly recommended.

 

Sean

[xenolith]

Thanks for posting that sean. Outstanding dissertation, as are many others on that site. I intend to listen to them all. I'll certainly look into Ingram's ebook as well.

 

Thanks again!

 

xeno

[三江源]

Sean< I'd love to look in your bookmarks folder, you find the coolest stuff.

 

thanks for this link.

 

 

I've never heard of Daniel Ingram. I just listened to some of his interviews _ he says his daily practise when he sits will be like 20 mins of dark night and 10 mins of equanimity....

 

 

?

 

makes me wonder.... because we Taoists get a lot of bliss, dont we? Maybe that is a new thread/poll..

 

I'd been assuming everyone gets a lot of bliss with the practises we discuss here..

[sean]

Sean< I'd love to look in your bookmarks folder, you find the coolest stuff.

Here you go: del.icio.us/somlor

 

Two and a half years of insanity, updated almost daily.

 

Yes Daniel is an interesting trip, he is really big on insight practice to avoid getting stuck in bliss, a common Buddhist warning. He claims to be basically enlightened, at least to level of Arahat in Therevadan tradition which loves to map these sorts of things out really explicitly.

 

Sean

[三江源]

thanks sean, I will have fun with with that folder.

 

 

bliss and insight practise, yes, got it. bliss is not so great if you dont get all the other stuff too, I tend to take that for granted and forget the fact of it.

 

 

being blissed out isnt the point we're heading for.

 

in the right context, however... I think of it as an experience which works to loosen bonds of identification with the transient.

 

I guess all this is very subjective.

[林愛偉]

Not everyone believes this chronological take- for some There were both Taoist and Buddhist monks in China before the man known as Boddidarma arrived and organized the efforts of the Buddhists to spread Buddhist Doctrain...

 

 

I agree, and never opposed that Buddhism was in China before Bodhidharma, yet "when Bodhidharma arrived in China, it was as if Buddhism wasn't there at all" - words of Ven. Master Xuan Hua.

 

Yet the lineage line of Chan Patriarchs is as I stated. Whether people believe it or not doesn't change the lineage line.

 

It is well documented in Buddhism that Hui Neng is the 6th Patriarch of the Chan tradition transmitted down from 32 Chan Patriarchs beginning with Shakyamuni Buddha. In China, Bodhidharma had the Chan Patriarch robe and bowl which was a symbol of having the proper Mind to Mind Seal of the Buddhas. He passed it to Master Hui Ko the 2nd Chan Patriarch, he passed it to Master Seng Zan 3rd Chan Patriarch, he passed it to Master Tao Xin 4th, he passed it to Master Hung Zhen 5th, and he passed it to Master Hui Neng the 6th Chan Patriarch.

 

That is the rightful lineage of the Chan Patriarchs in China. Anything else is off the mark...haha

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[minkus]

Thank you Lin for making the light above the long road brighter so we can walk safer.

 

Thank you SFjane for telling about your personal experiences regarding enlightenment, very enlightning and spot on, i think alot of people can recognize themselves in what you posted.

 

I noticed 1 thing personally and that is that talking and reading to much about enlightenment gets a person further away of it lol :/ it gets confusing while enlightenment isnt confusing at all. The story of pointing with the finger at the moon while most people only look at the finger.

 

On a sidenote i think some people on this forum are allready closer to enlightenment then they realise themselves, who knows what they all did this or previous lifetimes hehe.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

PS: If you can describe enlightenment in 1 word (maybe 2) what would it be ?

[Wayfarer64]

PS: If you can describe enlightenment in 1 word (maybe 2) what would it be ?

 

Enlightenment...

 

And yes always wear shades- when yr cool the sun is always shing on ya...

[rain]

............

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain