ilumairen Posted October 11, 2015 ... you must first help yourself. If you want to help yourself you must first forget yourself. I don't know where I came across these words - only that today they mean something different to me than they first did. Still pragmatic, but differently so than what the mind conceived. Thoughts? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 12, 2015 I came from a place of codependency. I had to be strong enough for the people around me. I let go of what I may have wanted in order to help and care for the people who didn't have my 'special ability' of setting themselves aside. I would 'go without' so they could have. I was a good little 'white night'. And while people were initially satisfied with whatever solution I (in all my wisdom) arrived at, the same situations kept arising. It was craziness, and I was perpetuating it. Today... losing oneself is about openness... a calmness... it's about the experience that everything I thought of myself, everything used to define myself was just inhibiting my connection with... fluidity. More listening, less doing. More trust, less worrying. The interesting thing is a sort of ripple effect... Words are failing me. Apologies. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AussieTrees Posted October 12, 2015 Thankyou Des, Codependency,like mother and children,become dependant on one another. Sometimes this can be a protective front by the mother,keeping her children safe from an abusive spouse. At some point the relationship dissolves. Mother and children develope further codependancies. After a time things slowly normalise,it takes time to heal to become well again. Seek out help,if needed,these are difficult times. Or is it like an 'ice'user codependant on their dealer. Just stories,what was the question? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 12, 2015 Hi Aussie, I have been away from spiritual forums for a long time. My understanding of interference has shifted to encompass what I had thought was helpful. I spent much of my life stepping in and preventing people from experiencing the ramifications of their choices. Your choice of the phrase 'distorts us' in regard to attachments is correct, uncomfortable, but correct. Thank you for that. It will sort itself out, but when it comes to my sister, I am still shrugging off entanglement. I was looking for other's thoughts on/experience with this. As always thank you for your kindness. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted October 12, 2015 I've been sensitive most of my life.... empathetic and overly aware of others. Sounds great for being of compassionate service to others, and yet.... I was so distracted by others that I never developed an awareness of my own center, my own boundaries, and found that instead of nurturing others I ended up using my sensitivity through reactivity and defensiveness. Alone I would still feel what had been absorbed when around others and I would look to escape it.... and so without forgetting myself, left alone my ego sought to run away. When I began to work on inner cultivation, too I worked on dissolving and forgetting myself. Led by humility and not by ego, I was able to help myself. Feeling whole, centered, and replenished I was able to be around others, and have enough buffer to be sensitive and accepting, which lead to ease and joy from nurturing others. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 12, 2015 Yes, Daeluin. This is the shared experience that I was looking for. Thank you. I don't have to 'fix things' anymore, although occasionally my mind still wanders those old paths. It's another wave in the ocean, and now it can pass without me feeling some need to ride it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted October 12, 2015 My wife and I volunteer to help at the refugee center in our town. We do it just because. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 12, 2015 If you want to help others... you must first help yourself. If you want to help yourself you must first forget yourself. Thoughts? If you want to help others... you must first help yourself. If you want to help yourself you must first forget yourself. If you want to forget yourself, you must first know yourself. So begin with awareness. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 13, 2015 If you want to help others.... Maybe the problem begins with the thinking/belief that one knows what is 'better' for someone else. With each moment a springtime ~ how could I even know what is 'better' for me? LOL Nice to see you again, old friend. (-: 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 13, 2015 If you want to help others.... Maybe the problem begins with the thinking/belief that one knows what is 'better' for someone else. With each moment a springtime ~ how could I even know what is 'better' for me? LOL Nice to see you again, old friend. (-: I took the scenic route to get here. The roads were interesting. The view is nice. LOL I've missed the simplicity of your view and shared words, my friend. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 13, 2015 Nice to see you rene You make a good point, although I don't think it excludes the possibility that we can skillfully help others. The key seems to be remaining open to what the other needs, on their terms not ours. Our own opinion of what they need must be released. That, perhaps, is what Des' initial post was pointing to. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 14, 2015 Nice to see you rene You make a good point, although I don't think it excludes the possibility that we can skillfully help others. The key seems to be remaining open to what the other needs, on their terms not ours. Our own opinion of what they need must be released. That, perhaps, is what Des' initial post was pointing to. Yes. I thought I knew. I didn't. Thanks Steve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 14, 2015 Perhaps this night's prayers will be for protection ~ from those with good intentions; especially the skillful ones, lol. Nice to see you too, Steve (-: 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 14, 2015 Perhaps this night's prayers will be for protection ~ from those with good intentions; especially the skillful ones, lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted October 14, 2015 Nice to see you rene You make a good point, although I don't think it excludes the possibility that we can skillfully help others. The key seems to be remaining open to what the other needs, on their terms not ours. Our own opinion of what they need must be released. That, perhaps, is what Des' initial post was pointing to. Knowing one's self and having healed one's self, radiating trust and love unconditionally from one's heart in all directions.... as one travels one encounters imbalances that tug them this way or that way. All one needs do is maintain their center. As one adjusts to maintain their center, there is an outward effect in all directions, an unconditional healing in all directions. Healing one's self first, one comes to heal others naturally without any outward intention. When focused on healing another in a specific way, one can become trapped by many limitations. Why should one be limited to healing only one being at a time? How can one avoid becoming entrapped by one's knowledge of what to heal first and how to best heal it? Sometimes people are good at seeking out their own healing, even though this enables them to maintain a lifestyle of harming others... how can we know when healing a tree will have more "benefit" than healing the human doing qigong next to the tree? When we set aside our biases, known and unknown, and allow ourselves to be guided by the celestial mechanism, we are free from these limitations. At first perhaps we are more specific with our actions, but as we become more centered and connected to the heart of all things, we may find we are lead naturally to what is synchronistic and harmonious without even trying. Setting our intention on the heart of things, we will be lead toward the course that best supports the heart of all things. This course is unique for all things. Uniting with the heart and center of one's own being, one unites with the heart and center of all. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 14, 2015 Different words... same openness. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 14, 2015 Knowing one's self and having healed one's self, radiating trust and love unconditionally from one's heart in all directions.... as one travels one encounters imbalances that tug them this way or that way. All one needs do is maintain their center. As one adjusts to maintain their center, there is an outward effect in all directions, an unconditional healing in all directions. Healing one's self first, one comes to heal others naturally without any outward intention. When focused on healing another in a specific way, one can become trapped by many limitations. Why should one be limited to healing only one being at a time? How can one avoid becoming entrapped by one's knowledge of what to heal first and how to best heal it? Sometimes people are good at seeking out their own healing, even though this enables them to maintain a lifestyle of harming others... how can we know when healing a tree will have more "benefit" than healing the human doing qigong next to the tree? When we set aside our biases, known and unknown, and allow ourselves to be guided by the celestial mechanism, we are free from these limitations. At first perhaps we are more specific with our actions, but as we become more centered and connected to the heart of all things, we may find we are lead naturally to what is synchronistic and harmonious without even trying. Setting our intention on the heart of things, we will be lead toward the course that best supports the heart of all things. This course is unique for all things. Uniting with the heart and center of one's own being, one unites with the heart and center of all. Very beautiful post Daeluin I feel that the most effective I have ever been in terms of "helping" someone else is when I am able to simply be with them with an open heart and open mind and listen. Often there is nothing more to do than that. If I am open enough, any action that needs to occur will occur without my interference. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 15, 2015 Yesterday my friend told me she has cancer. I later brought her soup. All I can do is be present. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted October 16, 2015 Des, I'm so sorry about your friend (((hugs))) When our actions are sourced through the heart, intentions to help become redundant, extraneous. There is no need to be kind, just be yourself. Kindness comes naturally. Being who you are in your heart, brings everything. We already know these things. They are naturally known, because they are natural. Soup, and being there, sounds about right to me. (-: Best wishes to your friend, and to you. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 16, 2015 Thank you Rene. She is embracing the everflowing present... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted October 16, 2015 "The I Ching says, "tranquil and unperturbed, yet sensitive and effective." -The Book of Balance and Harmony (Cleary) Some moments the need is a hug. Some moments a look and a shared deep breath. Still others laughter. And sometimes it is an ear. Responding to my friend's cues I help without helping. And food is normally an easy one; the body needs nourishment. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Yesterday my friend told me she has cancer. I later brought her soup. All I can do is be present. Very sorry to hear this, Des. I offer you and your friend my love and support. Edited October 16, 2015 by steve 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 16, 2015 Very sorry to hear this, Des. I offer you and your friend my love and support. I second that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Yesterday my friend told me she has cancer. I later brought her soup. All I can do is be present. Instead of soup, which is not going to be helpful encourage your friend to see a good TCM doctor, preferably a practicing Taoist,not a bookworm one, for an ongoing herbal treatment as they do in mainland China (it will take years), coupled with serious energetic work. It can be fixed but it's slow and a total change of lifestyle is required. Further reading: http://maciociaonline.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/the-treatment-of-cancer-with-chinese.html?m=1 This is the Taoist approach to healing: proactive and scientific. All the best to her! Edited October 16, 2015 by Gerard 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
