If you want to help others...

[dawei]

Yesterday my friend told me she has cancer. I later brought her soup. All I can do is be present.

 

I wonder if she would be open to some group presence?

[ilumairen]

She has had no introduction to 'this'. So, for the moment I'm waiting on some indication as to how to proceed.

 

Thank you Steve, Marblehead, Gerard, and dawei.

[Bearded Dragon]

Words are failing me. Apologies.

 

Don't they always?

 

I can only hope that someone finds a gap after reading something I post. Jamming a stick in the brain cog so that for an instant words completely fail and openness remains. This one I'm still working on.

[daomon]

Cancer? No problem, the answer is Paida Lajin.

[ilumairen]

Cancer? No problem, the answer is Paida Lajin.

 

I'm not recommending slap therapy.

[daomon]

I'm not recommending slap therapy.

 

Then do fire cupping therapy, same thing, gets the Yin Chi out, clears the meridians.

[daomon]

Look at the pages and pages of cured cancer testimonials from paida lajin if you care about your friend

 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cancer+site:paidalajin.com

[ilumairen]

Hi daomon,

 

You seem to have found your path, and it is understandable that you be rather exuberant about what you've found to work for you (and yes, many others as well).

 

Thank you.

[doc benway]

Look at the pages and pages of cured cancer testimonials from paida lajin if you care about your friend

 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cancer+site:paidalajin.com

 

Not a very considerate statement to make to someone whose friend has recently been diagnosed with cancer.

I suspect that Des cares about her friend whether or not she shares your enthusiasm for slap therapy.

 

Mr. Xiao has lots of testimonials on his website but not one shred of data to support his method.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32545591

 

From the BBC article:

"In April 2011, Taiwanese authorities fined him NT$50,000 (£1,060, $1,600) for "promoting folk remedies as medically effective", after he claimed that diabetic patients did not need medication and could be cured with paida lajin.

Aidan Fenton, the boy who died in Sydney, had type 1 diabetes and police believe he may have stopped taking insulin."

[ilumairen]

Not a very considerate statement to make to someone whose friend has recently been diagnosed with cancer.

I suspect that Des cares about her friend whether or not she shares your enthusiasm for slap therapy.

 

Thank you Steve. No, it wasn't considerate, but it was honest from his perspective. You suspect correctly, and she knows. The rest does not matter.

[Horus]

If you want to help others...

What if going through the pain they are in is exactly what they need? Would you really be helping them to do anything?

 

Or would the whole idea of helping others be fundamentally flawed in that there is no other, and the will to help others is really just a lure into the illusion?

 

Perfection.

[gendao]

Mr. Xiao has lots of testimonials on his website but not one shred of data to support his method.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32545591

 

From the BBC article:

"In April 2011, Taiwanese authorities fined him NT$50,000 (£1,060, $1,600) for "promoting folk remedies as medically effective", after he claimed that diabetic patients did not need medication and could be cured with paida lajin.

Aidan Fenton, the boy who died in Sydney, had type 1 diabetes and police believe he may have stopped taking insulin."

Such bruising freaks out gentrified Westerners, but is nothing new or shocking in Chinese medicine via common methods like cupping and guasha.

Slapping is just a slightly different method to achieve such similar results... But Western culture in general leans more towards aesthetics and comfort, while Chinese just prefer brutal effectiveness. This is also why these practices always get watered down and rendered useless once they crossover into the "delicate sensibilities" of mainstream Westernized society. And why there have been a lot of Western televangelists and Deepak Chopra blowhards...but no real John Chang's with real siddhic power. Only mostly ficrtionalized Hollywood and fantasyland comic book heroes!

 

Not to mention, genuine Chinese medicine is generally anti-meds...while the Western press is generally infomercials for Big Pharma. Hence, the need for a hit piece on Xiao Hongchi to discredit medless healing as unscientific and teh deadly!!!

 

This is not to say that mistakes can't be made...and any therapy can be as much an art as a science. But no healing method is 100% successful, or probably even close! The question is if it can help when done correctly?

 

And a FAIR article would have proportionally mentioned all his successes, as well as his "failures" - NOT just ignored all his glowing testimonials only to single out a lone "failure" instead. Not to mention, also actually interview the guy and allow him to respond??!!

Faith is a big healer but in today's society faith is sparse. Paida Lajin is not based on faith, it just works regardless of what the disease is called, it cures everything. I showed the video to my friend, she couldn't bend her ring finger on her right hand due to a previous trauma. After doing paida only two times, she can now bend her finger all the way naturally and without pain. She thought she was going to die and never be the same as before but paida solved the problem. She also cured her varicose veins and broken capillaries by slapping (paida), I don't know how that worked but she is the second person I know it worked on. The varicose veins and broken capillaries just healed and disappeared, she said she thought she was dreaming when she woke up the next day and they were no longer visible! She waited a week to see if they came back but they were gone for good!

If you want to help others...

What if going through the pain they are in is exactly what they need? Would you really be helping them to do anything?

 

Or would the whole idea of helping others be fundamentally flawed in that there is no other, and the will to help others is really just a lure into the illusion?

 

Perfection.

You are one of the most spiritually-mature people on this site...

Edited October 22, 2015 by gendao

[doc benway]

If you want to help others...

What if going through the pain they are in is exactly what they need? Would you really be helping them to do anything?

I think this is a good and important point.

How are we to know what others need?

How are we to know what we need?

Certainly there are times when people need to hit rock bottom to begin to climb back up.

And yet we've probably all experienced benefit in our [edit for spelling] lives through the help of others. 

This leads to the fundamental paradox of wu wei. 

How to know when we are following nature and how to know when we are interfering?

 

 

Or would the whole idea of helping others be fundamentally flawed in that there is no other, and the will to help others is really just a lure into the illusion?

Using that same logic, if there is no other, then anything I do to help others is helping myself.

Anything I do to hurt others is hurting myself.

This is the basis for Bodhicitta in Buddhism.

Helping is not necessarily a lure into illusion.

Depending on the perspective, it can be a reinforcement of truth.

 

 

Perfection.

Voila!

Edited October 22, 2015 by steve

[doc benway]

Such bruising freaks out gentrified Westerners, but is nothing new or shocking in Chinese medicine via common methods like cupping and guasha.

Slapping is just a slightly different method to achieve such similar results...

 

Yes, I actually have experience with similar methods - the use of shun jin fa and guan jiu.

Shun jin fa involves stroking, massaging, and slapping.

Guan jiu involves bloodletting.

 

 

But Western culture in general leans more towards aesthetics and comfort, while Chinese just prefer brutal effectiveness. This is also why these practices always get watered down and rendered useless once they crossover into the "delicate sensibilities" of mainstream Westernized society. And why there have been a lot of Western televangelists and Deepak Chopra blowhards...but no real John Chang's with real siddhic power. Only mostly ficrtionalized Hollywood and fantasyland comic book heroes!

 

Not to mention, genuine Chinese medicine is generally anti-meds...while the Western press is generally infomercials for Big Pharma. Hence, the need for a hit piece on Xiao Hongchi to discredit medless healing as unscientific and teh deadly!!!

 

This is not to say that mistakes can't be made...and any therapy can be as much an art as a science. But no healing method is 100% successful, or probably even close! The question is if it can help when done correctly?

 

And a FAIR article would have proportionally mentioned all his successes, as well as his "failures" - NOT just ignored all his glowing testimonials only to single out a lone "failure" instead. Not to mention, also actually interview the guy and allow him to respond??!!You are one of the most spiritually-mature people on this site...

 

No question the Western media are not the greatest resource for fair, balanced, and unbiased information

 - neither are Eastern media and self-promoting folk healers.

 

My issue is with statements like "cancer? no problem"   

Particularly when, despite so many glowing testimonials, there is no data to support the method.

There is corruption in Western medical science for sure, and there is also value. 

In the absence of data, there is no way to know if paida and laijin are effective and for which disorders.

How much, for how long, etc... Fortunately, it's relatively harmless as long as you still take your insulin.

Like you said, nothing is 100%. I think it's worthwhile trying to study these methods. 

Believing the testimonials is the same as listening to people tell us their medication makes them feel better.

 

I would encourage anyone who feels a connection to this method to explore it.

I don't think it should be imposed on people through intimidation and I think we should use caution when embracing a method that has no data to support it.

Just as we should use caution when interpreting scientific data that may be tainted by economic interests.

[gendao]

Yes, I actually have experience with similar methods - the use of shun jin fa and guan jiu.

Shun jin fa involves stroking, massaging, and slapping.

Guan jiu involves bloodletting.

 

My issue is with statements like "cancer? no problem"

Those methods sound interesting, could you expand on those and provide the Chinese characters (and thus word meanings)?

 

And I agree lol, but daomon said that, not Xiao Hongchi. By the time someone develops cancer, they've likely already accumulated massive amounts of emotional pain over a lonnnggg time, severely blocking qi flow. So, they would probably have to get the living sh*t slapped out of them by that point to heal... I wouldn't describe that as "no problem" then, lol...

Edited October 22, 2015 by gendao

[ilumairen]

And I agree lol, but daomon said that, not Xiao Hongchi. By the time someone develops cancer, they've likely already accumulated massive amounts of emotional pain over a lonnnggg time, severely blocking qi flow. So, they would probably have to get the living sh*t slapped out of them by that point to heal... I wouldn't describe that as "no problem" then, lol...

 

Yes, and if this someone has already had the living shit slapped out of them in a violent manner, this treatment may be more harmful than beneficial - reinforcing the emotional pain, instead of relieving it.

[doc benway]

Those methods sound interesting, could you expand on those and provide the Chinese characters (and thus word meanings)?

 

Shun Jin Fa:

   -  Method that follows the muscles and tendons (my translation, my teacher never gave us an English name). It always uses a light touch. There is a fair amount of training the hands in advance in both strength and sensitivity. It combines a variety of stroking, massage, tapping, slapping, scratching and so on. It follows muscle and tendon contours and also energetic contours. No medicine of any kind is used on the hands. Sometimes we move from central to peripheral and sometimes the opposite, depending on what is needed. 

 

Guan Jiu:

 - Moxibustion with a tube (same comment regarding translation). This involves making small, very superficial lacerations in the skin with a razor over energetic pathways surrounding or related to an area of injury or other problem. The cuts aren't much deeper than a deep scratch. Small bamboo tubes are cut and soaked in simmering medicine for hours. The cuts are made, the tubes are applied after cooling briefly, the characteristics of the blood that comes out into the tube has diagnostic value for those who can read it. The traditional method is to reuse the tubes and to put them back into the communal simmering pot of medicine (!)... tough sell these days. And it's pretty difficult to cut new tubes and brew a separate batch of medicine for each individual. I was taught that this method predates and gave rise to acupuncture but I can't verify that statement. 

 

Both methods can be used independently or in conjunction. I've seen some impressive results but all testimonial.

I can't offer any data to support either. 

 

 

While daomon made a statement I objected to, Xiao Hongchi makes some pretty outrageously claims such as having treated 250 people with prostate disease and "every single one of them has had great success." Another quote from his website - “effective on about all diseases.” Like you pointed out, no treatment is right for every one or every problem so claims like this loose all credibility for me. 

 

 

Regarding the diabetic child's death:

"The incident took place in Sydney, where Lily and Geoff Fenton took their diabetic son Aidan to Hongchi’s seminar at the Ritz Hotel in Hurtsville. The parents were advised not to give the boy any food for 72 hours, while he was undergoing the slapping therapy at the workshop.

 

The parents complied, but the boy ended up retching during the session. Later, Aidan was found unconscious in his hotel room. His parents’ screams drew the attention of the hotel staff, who called emergency services.

 

“At about 9.50pm on Monday April 28 emergency services were called to a hotel in Hurstville after a family member found a seven-year-old boy in an unconscious state,” a police spokesperson said. “The ambulance paramedics performed CPR on the boy, however he was pronounced dead at the scene.”

 

Witholding food and insulin for 72 hours from a child with Type I diabetes?

If it is true that was recommended by Xiao, it's manslaughter at best, 2nd degree murder at worst.  

I am a big supporter of different methods of healing but there needs to be some common sense and accountability whether we're talking about Western or Eastern paradigms. 

[Horus]

You are one of the most spiritually-mature people on this site...

 

Thanks for that

 

I'm sure my ego may love to think that, but then what the hell would he know? 

 

In truth, I'm actually very Child-like...

Edited October 23, 2015 by Horus

[Horus]

The want or grasp to help others is one thing aside from "helping" in service to others, whether it's actually helping or not becomes irrelevant.

 

Effortless right action is not rooted in desire, want, or grasping...its just the oak tree being an oak tree.

[ilumairen]

And still, I'm tired, weary, and I miss my sister. There is no help to offer, but the heart still loves, and the mind does long for her to be ok.

[shanlung]

How good is it to help people especially when your help resulted in imposing on others that must continue to help and help even if they do not wish to do so?

 

How wonderful was it that people drowning in Mediterranean seas be helped from drowning?

 

A hundred saved encouraged a hundred thousands to go to the Med sea to be saved  since theyknow they be saved.

Then a million more be encouraged to do so as why should they stay to fight ISIS or whatever ^%$##%^&& regime?

How about another 5 millions more?

 

They get more to eat, more to spend without having to lift a finger of theirs, all paid for by other people who got to work harder then before.

 

So now we all see a tsunami of begging bowls flooding into Europe with their niqabs and burkas siphoning off money that will now go to them instead of other courses such as wild life and earthquake relief in Nepal so that those begging bowls and niqabs and burkas can get heated tents.  What more?  jacuzis for them as well?

 

Idiotic Taoist more and more believing in Yangzi who will not pluck a hair from his head even if that meant helping the entire world

[doc benway]

Idiotic Taoist more and more believing in Yangzi who will not pluck a hair from his head even if that meant helping the entire world

 

I wonder if Yang zhu would have prevented the abuse of a child were it within his power?

[Horus]

And still, I'm tired, weary, and I miss my sister. There is no help to offer, but the heart still loves, and the mind does long for her to be ok.

 

Who are you, and why upon my heart strings are you strumming this divine song, Des?

 

The more pain I feel the more love arrives, the more love arrives the more pain feels safe to co-habitate my soul.

 

Is there any answer in tiredness?

 

Is weariness the answer in such tired dragging of myself across that line, but what is in a line - a start of a finish?

 

Is it help or just more burdon to love more when this mind is never sated with this star struck scrambling striven strife?

[Horus]

How good is it to help people especially when your help resulted in imposing on others that must continue to help and help even if they do not wish to do so?

 

How wonderful was it that people drowning in Mediterranean seas be helped from drowning?

 

A hundred saved encouraged a hundred thousands to go to the Med sea to be saved  since theyknow they be saved.

Then a million more be encouraged to do so as why should they stay to fight ISIS or whatever ^%$##%^&& regime?

How about another 5 millions more?

 

They get more to eat, more to spend without having to lift a finger of theirs, all paid for by other people who got to work harder then before.

 

So now we all see a tsunami of begging bowls flooding into Europe with their niqabs and burkas siphoning off money that will now go to them instead of other courses such as wild life and earthquake relief in Nepal so that those begging bowls and niqabs and burkas can get heated tents.  What more?  jacuzis for them as well?

 

Idiotic Taoist more and more believing in Yangzi who will not pluck a hair from his head even if that meant helping the entire world

 

Maybe they don't need the help, perhaps they are the help.

 

Perhaps they are reflecting us back to ourselves, making us see ourselves.

[Horus]

I wonder if Yang zhu would have prevented the abuse of a child were it within his power?

 

I feel yes. But, I feel he would come back in and live that child's pain in his place, in that he might have an opportunity to learn his message, sharing it with the other him that is us; living it not saving.